Player Features and Ideas Discussion

1 of the spendy lowslots, or a t1 rig. Currently you get 3.0 au/s with a single t1 rig anyways. A WS-610 hardwiring gets you to 2.97au/s ( equivalent to a 3% hardwire), which is off by just a tiny fraction.

I think the tweaks to warp rigs or even BC warp speed aren't meant to buff BCs and BSes back up to prominence. Really, from the stats we're seeing and the stuff the devs have said, I don't think BSes or BCs have really been brought down so much as everything else has been brought up.

For a long time BSes were the thing to bring because they brought an amazing combination of tank, damage, damage projection, and fitting versatility. Now T1 Cruisers are a tenth of the price of Battleships and are able to effectively engage them with numbers.

Honestly I think the game is healthier with Battleships and BCs not stomping all over everything. Players are more willing to PvP when the loss doesn't hurt so much and they know they won't get stomped on for bringing a cheaper ship. Given that I think it's more important to not have Battleships stomping all over everything (or any class stomping all over everything, really) than it is to bring back the reign of the Battleship in Eve PvP.

I believe you mean well but when you do go to the tradehubs and your mood feels like flying a battleship and you go and see the pricetag on a bare hull and insurace and fitting and lookt at you wallet again when you are about to undock, you may have a certain expectation of what you got.
Only to discover a few minutes later that your 300-400m in meta and tech 2 fittings just got you yolo-rofl-stomped over by an ishtar and some Navy Omens which you didn't even get a target lock on to begin with.

I also don't believe that warping around in my Brutix a few seconds less than before doesn't help that 5 firgates yolo-kite that Brutix into an explosion in 2 minutes or one svipul in 1 under gate-gun fire.

Look at it this way, that Brutix did cost 45m without fitting and a Thorax costs 10m without fitting but for 30m more isk I get 20% of the performance of that Thorax.

Is it too much to ask that I can fight 5 ishtars under gategun fire and may last long enough to bring down 3 of them?

Stop repeating what others have said already, it is insulting and doesn't answer my question. I only need to read things once to have it inscripted in my mind.



That is what you have been saying 10 times in two days, care you learn a new sentence? I didn't.

Since it is public record now, you can go ahead and read it again, sometimes our primitive human minds play tricks on us and we only read what we want to read instead of what is written.



I almost care what some lawyers do in drama-sec or better, well actually I don't. And I D I S A G R E E.

Because they are really damn slow and battleships moving like slowpokes its almost unbearable, all except Machariel, it have good bonus.

And because finding enough BCs to be worth blopsing is hard.

Yeah I think this has to do more with a lack of BC's rather than BC's being scary... I am certain that torps have better range than medium ac's and that sb's can run circles around BC's including the hurricane

BC's and BS's: when nerfing goes too far

If they nerfed the damage output like they did and kept them as being fairly fast, maybe that would've been okay

If they merged the speed like they did and kept them doing respectable damage, maybe that would've been okay

Instead they did both things and we now have crappy 6 launcher drakes, 6 turret harbingers, 6 turret brutixes, etc. Not only is their damage weak compared to not just hac's but even t1 cruisers, they are unusably slow

Your hypothetical mixed range BC fleet doesn't make sense because a. No one flies bc's and b. What kind of fleet would have people using railguns and autocannons on their backbone ships

There are numerous bc's that are straight outdamaged by the Vexor for example

And adding mass is basically a speed nerf

They are garbage now and making it seem as if they have some niche is ridiculous, a HAC would be better in literally any situation. It used to be that BC's were the cheap option but with the change in insurance and the survivability of BC's being nil, I don't think that is the case anymore. A hac might be more expensive in simple terms, but the insurance changes brought them in line to a degree and you also are much less likely to get stuck and die because of poor mobility

We're discussing the balance between BCs and Cruisers, saying "well no one uses BCs" isn't a counter argument.

As to B, how about some hypothetical BC roam. Small gang and what-not, since null doctrines tend to run whatever scales best with number of players, cost, and various other factors which are rarely constant.

The Vexor also, in theory, out-damages every other T1 Cruiser, but can have its drones popped as well as needing to fit basically no tank for all that gank.

Adding mass is not a speed nerf, this is not how the speed mechanics work, it adjusts align time and acceleration but not overall speed. The changes in this case were *tiny* and generally offset by changes to agility, meaning in many cases the align time remained the same, the only thing that changed was performance with prop mods, which generally increased since with a prop mod agility matters more than base mass value.

I'm pointing out the advantages BCs have over T1 Cruisers, not HACs, and I'm not arguing that they have some major niche that isn't currently better filled by another ship for one reason or another, I'm just saying that in a straight fight they do have some advantages over a T1 Cruiser. HACs are generally 3-4 times more expensive for the base hull, are T2 combat focused ships, and require way better skills to fit and fly effectively than a T1 BC.

It's not even like these hulls aren't being used at all anywhere in Eve. Just check the stats on ZKillboard versus the various HACs. There are actually more people going out and getting popped in BCs than HACs, but T1 Cruisers beat both of them soundly. (I'd link you, but that's against forum rules)

This does 713 DPS, does it look like tank is sacrificed?

[Vexor, Vexor1]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 150

Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Electron Blaster II, Void M

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Ogre II x2Hammerhead II x2Hobgoblin II x1

This does maybe 10 more DPS, probably not even that since it is with rage HAM's which never do full damage and plus basically no one would fit that HAM launcher over a small neut
[Hurricane, Hurricane 220]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II
Warp Scrambler II

220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Hail M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Hail M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Hail M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Hail M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Hail M
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Hail M
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Inferno Rage Heavy Assault Missile

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Hobgoblin II x5

This is doing 689 DPS but you do gain the medium neut (questionable usability because the harb is extremely cap hungry)[Harbinger, Harbinger focused]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II

Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

Hammerhead II x5Acolyte II x5

656 DPS but again this is using rage HAM's which do not do full damage basically ever (the turret t2 DPS ammo seems to be better in general and almost usable outside of benchmark comparisons)
[Drake, Drake]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

10MN Microwarpdrive II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5