Intergalactic Summit

The expulsion of dissenting opinions, coupled with the violence against Gallente nationalities on Caldari Prime is the context of the situation. Furthermore, the relocation of military assets, willing or not, in order to fortify a border (whether that border be stargates or intraplanetary) is indeed a military action. Not to mention the hostile takeover of dissenting territories that the CEP sought to consolidate power from.

It may not be direct military aggression, but it is a prelude to conflict, an expectation at best and a provocation at worst. When you take the relocation and fortification of military assets in tandem with the violence against Gallente citizens and individuals on Caldari Prime and the hostile takeover of abstaining governments, I'm sure that you (being a reasonable man) can understand why it was (and still is) viewed as military action.




It wasn't. It was justified by the relocation and fortification of military assets that was already transpiring. A military and resource blockade to respond to military movement and fortification is an entirely justified response.

To your assertions regarding the behind-the-scenes politics in the Federation at the time, I've conceded more than once that the situation spiraled out of control rather swiftly. The major failing of a government run by its citizenry is that it is also prone to their whims.

A group of enterprising opportunists saw an opportunity to seize power and they did so. Regardless of whether it was done within the confines of the system at the time or not, it was a government coup, a takeover and consolidation of a single mindset preying upon the fears, confusion and anger of the populace.

Furthermore, while the takeover and consolidation may have started prior to the bombing of Nouvelle Rouvenoir, it stands testament that the Federation had still not taken direct hostile action against the Caldari (with the exception of the blockade, as described above). Even with all of the right people in all of the right places, the government was bound from responding until the general populace willed it to do so, which did not occur until after the bombing.

Yes, it was unjust what happened to your people. Yes, it was abuse of a young political system and the chaos and turmoil caused by the events leading up to the conflict to begin with. You'll never hear me state contrary.

The address of one man does not reflect the will of an entire people. That the "good" admiral's voice fell on deaf ears prior to the bombing of Nouvelle Rouvenoir, even in the ears of a "favorable" Senate suggests it was not the popular sentiment at the time.

That it was eventually the voice that was heard remains, to this day, a great travesty.

Hell, I won't even argue the blockade was justified. That's a matter of opinion. It was done, and the Federation deserves to be held responsible for the consequences justified or not. Our Caldari neighbors should not spend so much time and effort mincing words and spinning the optics of their own militarism.

What is so hard about admitting the plain truth that the CEP initiated a military path to Caldari independence? Obviously you believe the actions of your ancestors were justified. Take responsibility.

James is right, though. The future is what's most important.

Well, I was about to argue, but...****...what am I to argue against?

Rinai Veto, James Sygarius, I would hug you, I would hold you close -metaphorically speaking, save that that we are still at war.

Look, I'm the most conservative Caldari you will meet, and I can say this. I've spoken to both the Providence directorate, and the CEP, and only Heth wished violence against you just because of your origin.

I can't speak for Roden. I can only speak for what I've seen from the Federation. But were it up to me, we'd live in peace, maybe occasionally with a ego-driven-duel, and we'd all be happy, in our separate harmonies. And I am a Patriot, the most extreme of Caldari, aside from the morons like Kim.

i fight...and, in the end, I will kill your countrymen. But if I can give you this, well, I will. I am sorry. I am sorry that Noir and Heth led us to this. And, you know what, I am sorry that Duvalier led us to this. We should be friends, we really should. This is such a tragedy. We have been the victims of cruel, cruel, cruel, circumstance.

But surely, you understand that I must stand with my own, my own countrymen. It is my anchor, my only such. And so I will do.

Why some on both sides of the Federal and State borders feel the need to justify history, seek who was in the wrong or right, or determine who had the most just cause will always elude me. This is like reading a debate between the fans of two different consumer electronics products so focused on minutiae that they can't grasp both models are essentially the same and simply cater to different demographics as regards market share.

It is true that the only people with which discussion becomes pointless are those that view discourse as pointless. As long as two sides are willing to interact civilly there is potential for benefit in that interaction.

Aw, shucks. How about refreshing my bounty instead after all these years? I can be our thing...

It's nice to people getting along here again.

Let's all promise that if Kim decides to post more hate, we ignore it and keep talking about a peaceful future instead of a tumultuous past.

Come on, people, we can do this...

What can I say, I am full of (often misplaced) optimism.

That being said, so far so good.

Vikarion, I think I'm growing to like you more and more with each post. I wish there were more sensible people like yourself speaking on this topic on the Caldari side.

Well, not shooting at one another might be a step in the right direction. Then start going from there. Kinda hard to hear over the sound of gunfire.