Intergalactic Summit

If you don't want us to tell what to do, then get the hell our from our homeworld, get the hell our from our colonies from Black Rise, and get the hell out your media with propaganda from broadcasting outside of your Federation.
I don't care what you have inside and how you live, while you leave it for yourself, I would stay from your affairs.
But as you try to spread your humiliating influence onto others, as you occupy our worlds, you have to excuse me, but I will send whatever crap you are throwing at us back to you and push it as deep as it will go together with our bullets.

And have a nice day.

Either you completely misunderstood the point I was making, disregarded it if you did understand it, or I misrepresented it. For the sake of conversation, I'll assume it was the latter.

Fly safe.

I appreciate the detail, and the effort you've made to respond to a complex question. However, I still think the crux of the issue I raised remains unaddressed. Maybe it should be so.

To be honest, I've long felt that the Caldari had every right to be dissatisfied with the early Federation. On a philosophical level, I don't believe that it is necessary for a people to justify their right to independence. It is enough for me simply if they wish to be.

I think that what made the issue of Caldari secession so difficult for Gallente society to come to terms with was not the concept of Caldari independent determination, but the authoritarian and militaristic method the CEP went about getting it. You may say that your people had no choice. I don't think so. I think that militarism was simply more appealing to those Caldari leaders who were most opposed to influence from the Gallente.

For the Caldari, what use was independence gained through the utilization of democratic institutions and principles compared to seized at the point of a sword? Their ancestors had to fight to survive, and so how could survival through other means be as honorable?

So they prepared for war, and through that war those Caldari leaders gained the authority that democracy threatened.

It's possible that you're right, certainly that's a far less noble version of the history of my people than one I was taught - although that's no real surprise. James said something about presentation in our discussion about Home and this is a new facet for me to think about - perhaps a gentler approach would have yielded us our rights sooner and without a military confrontation.

It's no surprise to me that we wouldn't approach that situation without having done everything we could to prepare ourselves to survive on our own two feet though - even though it's worth remembering that our naval forces were essentially customs cutters and converted water freighters. We were so horribly outgunned in those days.

When your desire is independence there is little margin for negotiation. Back then, the federation was opposed to this notion and decided quite quickly that the natural course of action is a military solution. I think the question for a more moderate approach is not one the Caldari should ask themselves.

The Federation sought diplomatic resolution first and foremost. Even after the discovery of the illegal colonies, followed by the immediate secession of the Caldari and the fortifying of their assets outside Federal space, the Federation set up a blockade to prevent further fortification and relocation of military assets to the Luminaire system - this was a military response to a military situation.

Yet, that response was designed specifically to force a stalemate that would bring the Caldari to the negotiating table.

Of course, history reveals that it did exactly the opposite...

No, this is a matter of fact that is established.

The CEP coopted the Caldari Army to seize power from the previously existing planetary governments on Caldari Prime. During the takeover, they purged soldiers with Gallente heritage or sympathies from their ranks. Eventually those discharged soldiers along with other Gallente partisans formed the Free Caldari Army to provide security for themselves and fellow Gallente under attack during the unrest that followed the CEP military coup.

This was the first military action taken in the conflict.

Next, the CEP declared the foundation of the Caldari Navy and started mobilizing it.

This was the second military action taken in the conflict.

Establishment of the blockade by the Federation Navy followed both of these Caldari military actions.

You're not that dense Pieter.

Again, I think that there is more nuance to the situation than your statement allows. There are a few things that need to all be grasped to get the true picture of what happened.

First, as we all know, the Caldari were becoming very resentful of both the Federation as a whole, and of the political system they operated within. The national governments of the Caldari did retain standing ground defense forces, but over time, the Megacorporations and their outspoken CEOs, chief of whom was Kalaakiota CEO Matias Sobaseki.

Second, the Proclamation of Secession was an article of both the Caldari Senators, and the CEOs of the Megas. Here is one quote from a Caldari Senator, Kiriusu Otenga: "It is rather strange that the good of the many seems to constantly coincide with whatever policies weaken the Caldari, the Intaki, and the Mannar and keep them under the heel of the Gallente."

Third, the ground military forces were not seized by the Megas. They were transferred willingly, along with the other resources of government ((EvE:Source)). And this is the only thing that makes sense - if the Caldari governments had not transferred political and military authority to the Megas, how could the Megas have acquired them? Harsh words? A strike?

Fourth, the Caldari Megas did not expel all ethnically Gallente soldiers. They expelled all Gallente-Federation-sympathizers. That's simply what one must do when one is in immediate danger from a potentially hostile power. It's not nice, it's even regrettable, but it is wise.

So, assuming the Caldari had the right to secede, the transfer of forces within a state is indeed not a "military move", in the sense of something provocative. If the Minmatar Republic decides to put half of its army under control of the Sebiestor Tribe tomorrow, that is hardly a cause for war. It's only if you assume that the Caldari had no right to self-determination that such a move becomes provocative. In which case you have just demonstrated the wisdom of such a move. I don't see anyone claiming the latter, here, however.

Therefore, as the Caldari had asserted the right to self-determination, and had decided on the whole that they preferred the Megacorporations as leaders, it was not, or at least should not have been, provocative for them to rearrange their political, military, and police forces as needed to accommodate the wishes of the people.


Now, as for the claim that the blockade was justified by Caldari refusal to negotiate...

From the SCC article History of the Gallente Federation:

"The Federal Senate was in danger of hitting deadlock, but it took no time at all for the corporate elites in Gallente society to intervene. They feared that even if the Caldari colonies were reeled into the Federation peacefully, the power and wealth of their corporations would be a threat to the influence of their own interests.

To these elites, the sovereignty of those territories must be uncompromisingly placed in the hands of the people, which would result in the Caldari corporations losing their huge industrial base, and thus ensure the hegemony of the Gallente corporations. Indeed, if those territories remained under Caldari corporate control in some form or another while being integrated into the Federation, these corporations would have the industrial base to supersede their Gallente counterparts as the primary economic player in space. This was seen as intolerable by these forces."

And:

"Several Gallente corporations poured countless millions into backing the Ultra-Nationalists within the Federal Senate. Their influence and popularity grew within days, with Mannar Senators aligning themselves with their Gallente counterparts. It didn’t take long for the majority opinion in the Senate to demand that the once-hidden Caldari colonies be classed as Federation territory, which included the relinquishment of corporate sovereignty and the immediate establishment of democratic authorities. Voices within the Senate that said otherwise were simply drowned out by the Ultra-Nationalists, led by the charismatic Senator Luc Duvailer. President Arlette Villers was now rapidly becoming a puppet of the Senate despite her attempts to the contrary."

And:

"The Senate demanded that President Villers move to act at once, to treat this secession as an open rebellion. In response, the Federation Navy established a blockade of Caldari Prime. The economies of various worlds (including Caldari Prime) had been influenced over the recent decades to rely on off-world trade, and it was hoped that a planetary economic collapse may be enough to convince the Caldari to talk."

This leads me, and I think any reasonable person, to believe that the only acceptable terms to the Gallente were the nationalization and assimilation of the colonies. In short, a continuation of the subjugation of the Caldari people and culture in favor of the Gallente elites. How could that ever be acceptable to the Caldari, considering that that was exactly why they were seceding in the first place?

Or let's just let the Gallente speak for themselves:
"They seek to fragment the Federation for their own selfish pride. Take their planet, strangle it and let's see how proud they stand after." - Vice Admiral Eisen Piroit, Addressing the Senate.

That was before Nouvelle Rouvenor. Not much of an attitude favoring negotiation, I think. Moreover, from the same article, it should be noted that one of the things that they were considering negotiating was the conquest of Caldari Prime by the Federal Army. No wonder the CEP was not open to negotiation. You can't ask a man if he would prefer for you to shoot him or stab him, and then complain about him not negotiating.

As much as I can, I think. Thank you in return.