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[April] Battlecruiser Warp Speed and Warp Rig Tweaks

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Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#241 - 2015-04-13 18:13:38 UTC
Maybe you shouldnt be both almost uncatchable and extremely fast while in warp unless you are in an inty? Frigs dont need any help at warping
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#242 - 2015-04-14 06:34:10 UTC
Alexis Nightwish wrote:
Give warp speed rigs a penalty to capacitor usage to initiate warp. Make it enough to give people pause, but not enough to be crippling. Maybe a base of +100% cap usage (which can be reduced to +50% via the appropriate rigging skill)?



This is a good suggestion. It is also intuitive and as a penalty, makes sense.
You want to warp faster?It'll cost you more energy
Benito Arias
Angry Mustellid
#243 - 2015-04-14 06:38:36 UTC
Alexis Nightwish wrote:

Consider this instead: Give warp speed rigs a penalty to capacitor usage to initiate warp. Make it enough to give people pause, but not enough to be crippling. Maybe a base of +100% cap usage (which can be reduced to +50% via the appropriate rigging skill)?

This is a very attractive idea, indeed.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#244 - 2015-04-14 06:54:23 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Maybe you shouldnt be both almost uncatchable and extremely fast while in warp unless you are in an inty? Frigs dont need any help at warping



A properly fit interceptor could have the sig of an avatar, but you'd still need your resident Londoner to have a shot at catching it.



ed:
Benito Arias wrote:
Alexis Nightwish wrote:

Consider this instead: Give warp speed rigs a penalty to capacitor usage to initiate warp. Make it enough to give people pause, but not enough to be crippling. Maybe a base of +100% cap usage (which can be reduced to +50% via the appropriate rigging skill)?

This is a very attractive idea, indeed.



I also approve of this (and think it should be extended to jump capacitor hit to make these hard for capitals to fit)
Acel Tokalov
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#245 - 2015-04-14 13:50:31 UTC
At the same time can we get a .3 au speed increase to battleships so it doesn't take 3 T1 or 2 T2 warp speed rigs to keep up with a cruiser.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#246 - 2015-04-14 15:08:16 UTC
Acel Tokalov wrote:
At the same time can we get a .3 au speed increase to battleships so it doesn't take 3 T1 or 2 T2 warp speed rigs to keep up with a cruiser.



I'd rather that large rigs just gave a bigger bonus. More bang for the buck on a rig slot for a BS then
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#247 - 2015-04-14 18:13:10 UTC
Acel Tokalov wrote:
At the same time can we get a .3 au speed increase to battleships so it doesn't take 3 T1 or 2 T2 warp speed rigs to keep up with a cruiser.


And the award for missing the point goes to....
Acel Tokalov.

The new meta is supposed to make it really painful to keep up with cruisers in a battleship (other than the machariel or nestor), especially if you aren't willing to shell out the isk for an ascendancy set.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Acel Tokalov
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#248 - 2015-04-14 19:54:45 UTC
James Baboli wrote:
Acel Tokalov wrote:
At the same time can we get a .3 au speed increase to battleships so it doesn't take 3 T1 or 2 T2 warp speed rigs to keep up with a cruiser.


And the award for missing the point goes to....
Acel Tokalov.

The new meta is supposed to make it really painful to keep up with cruisers in a battleship (other than the machariel or nestor), especially if you aren't willing to shell out the isk for an ascendancy set.


Says the guy who probably has never spent significant time in null. That is half the reason that no one in null uses them, the other half being bombers, and anyone who injects an Ascendancy set in null sec to fly a T1 battleship either has way too much money, or is not right in the head.

Spugg Galdon wrote:
I'd rather that large rigs just gave a bigger bonus. More bang for the buck on a rig slot for a BS then


Yeah I could agree with a higher percent increase for large rigs to make up for the horrible base speed.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#249 - 2015-04-14 19:59:59 UTC  |  Edited by: James Baboli
You would be wrong. I spend quite a bit of time in null, just not on this character.
I do have quite a pile of isk, and who the hell said anything about t1 battleships? Pirate hulls are cheap enough to lose in medium droves right now if you aren't a poor, and if you are a poor, fly a cruiser. Simple.

I'm in favor of getting them to be worth it to bring on grid, whether it be sufficiently buffed performance to be worth waiting for them if slower than cruisers, sufficiently better performance to still be good with the sacrifices to keep up with cruisers, a savage nerf to bombs, etc. A straight increase in BS warp speed is my least preferred option.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Lienzo
Amanuensis
#250 - 2015-04-14 22:55:12 UTC
An interesting option for warp rigs could be to lower the speed threshold for getting into warp. For example, from 75% max speed down to 70% or so.

Currently, this is all controlled by modifying agility, but that has the unfortunate effect of affecting other balance concerns while on grid. Such a modification would be much more specific to warping, and warrant fewer penalties.

Another thing we don't have enough diversity in is the analogue to astrometric pinpointing that affects the accuracy with which ships land in proximity to their intended destination during general warping.
Cassius Invictus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#251 - 2015-04-15 06:57:29 UTC
Aiyshimin wrote:
Warp speed was the least of BC issues and improving it has absolutely no effect on the sad state of BCs.


What? I don't fly T1 ships, but warp speed nerf was the impulse for me to change my Absolution for Proteus (that and the new ugly red dil*o model). +1 from me for this change.
Spugg Galdon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2015-04-15 07:14:44 UTC
Acel Tokalov wrote:


Spugg Galdon wrote:
I'd rather that large rigs just gave a bigger bonus. More bang for the buck on a rig slot for a BS then


Yeah I could agree with a higher percent increase for large rigs to make up for the horrible base speed.



......and if the warp speed rig was to have a penalty to capacitor need to warp then it could easily be balanced by making the large rigs have heavier penalties for greater gains per rig.
abrasive soap
Gape Deep Core Mining
#253 - 2015-04-16 15:47:19 UTC
This would be great if the problem with BC's was as simple as warp speed. BC's are just not usable now. When a Vexor can outdps just about any BC maybe there is something wrong. Perhaps the BC nerf went too far? I rarely see a BC in PvP anymore, and if I do it is usually a neutral command ship that is giving fleet bonuses. T1 BC's are exceedingly rare, and it isn't tough to figure out why.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#254 - 2015-04-16 15:56:49 UTC
abrasive soap wrote:
T1 BC's are exceedingly rare, and it isn't tough to figure out why.


Still use a CBC for gas huffing. Cool
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#255 - 2015-04-16 16:13:11 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
abrasive soap wrote:
T1 BC's are exceedingly rare, and it isn't tough to figure out why.


Still use a CBC for gas huffing. Cool

Where they are more than adequate, and have much better tank than the prospect and venture, as well as the possibility of being trap.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#256 - 2015-04-16 17:31:45 UTC
abrasive soap wrote:
This would be great if the problem with BC's was as simple as warp speed. BC's are just not usable now. When a Vexor can outdps just about any BC maybe there is something wrong. Perhaps the BC nerf went too far? I rarely see a BC in PvP anymore, and if I do it is usually a neutral command ship that is giving fleet bonuses. T1 BC's are exceedingly rare, and it isn't tough to figure out why.


Very much.

If you compare the Vexor to the Prophecy, the trait/ slot layout are very similar. Both have 4 turret slots, both have 75 bandwidth, both have 10% to drone damage and hitpoint. The Prophecy gives up a turret damage bonus for more tank. If that's what the BC was supposed to be, A tanky cruiser, it fills the role very well. Of course when you have one doctrine of 'Alpha down everything' a little bit of tank or even double as in the case of Prophecy/ Vexor comparison, it is meaningless. Either one will pop under heavy alpha fire.

Something I see people say a lot. "Cost shouldn't dictate the effectiveness of the ship in a linear fashion. That's all fine, I won't bother debating it but BattleCruiser is an example of cost over run with disproportionate benefit. 100% bonus for 600% the cost. They can't very well give a Prophecy 6 times the tank of a Vexor but don't act surprised when people just build 6 Vexors instead of one Prophecy.

tl;dr - In Min/Max EVE the BC is a waste of minerals.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#257 - 2015-04-16 17:44:57 UTC
Ocih wrote:

Something I see people say a lot. "Cost shouldn't dictate the effectiveness of the ship in a linear fashion. That's all fine, I won't bother debating it but BattleCruiser is an example of cost over run with disproportionate benefit. 100% bonus for 600% the cost. They can't very well give a Prophecy 6 times the tank of a Vexor but don't act surprised when people just build 6 Vexors instead of one Prophecy.

tl;dr - In Min/Max EVE the BC is a waste of minerals.


So much of this. Especially as it used to be less steep of a scale up in minerals, and the teiracide on BCs moved most of them to the former tier 1 spot for performance (or even below, RIP draek and welpcane) while pushing the minerals towards (or above) the former tier 2 across the class, and then they dropped the warp speed changes on top of that.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#258 - 2015-04-16 17:47:18 UTC
command ships warping as fast as cruisers seems a little odd... maybe 2.9 instead??

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
abrasive soap
Gape Deep Core Mining
#259 - 2015-04-16 18:16:42 UTC
Is command ship warp speed even relevant when they are just used as neutral fleet boosters and don't get involved in the fighting?
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#260 - 2015-04-16 19:08:07 UTC
abrasive soap wrote:
Is command ship warp speed even relevant when they are just used as neutral fleet boosters and don't get involved in the fighting?

Several people I know are celebrating the return of sliepnir fleet already.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp