Intergalactic Summit

Doesn't it worry you that this is an incredibly black and white view of a much more complex history? It seems to me that it's roughly the same as saying that the Amarr are justified in enslaving as many Minmatar as possible, because the Minmatar broke a peace treaty.

A legal contract doesn't justify everything. Moreover, the "legal contract" that the Caldari "agreed" to was a product of coercion, at least according to SCC histories ((EvE:Source, EvElopedia:Age of Expansion)).

What happened - and I am, of course, condensing the timeline down - was this: the Caldari, developing on a very harsh planet at the cold edge of the habitable zone, were slightly behind the Gallente in technological development, roughly one hundred to three hundred years, depending on what Caldari nation you pick. The Gallente formed a Federated Union with the Caldari (and others, such as the Mannar), and had they been content with that, there almost certainly would have been no war. Inside the Federated Union, nations were largely sovereign.

But that wasn't enough for them. Instead, they (the Gallente) held a vote, determined to create a single democratic state, at whose head they would undoubtedly be, given that they vastly outnumbered any other demographic in the Federated Union. Unsurprisingly, given aforementioned vast majority, they won, and the Caldari rejection of submission was rejected. After all, everything had been democratically done.

This is a bit like five slaver hounds and a slave voting on what's for dinner. It struck the Caldari rather the same way. But what could they do? When the Federation was formed, the Caldari didn't have any means to resist. And, besides, perhaps it would work out.


That's not to say that the Gallente and Mannar didn't realize that the Caldari were not happy with the course of the Federation or their rather ungentle subsuming into it. The Caldari were largely confined to their own world, while the Gallente and Mannar rapidly colonized known space, including planets marked for colonization by the Caldari. Moreover, the Gallente pursued a policy of colonizing the planets originally held by other groups, ensuring a plurality of support in elections regardless of the desires of the indigenous peoples ((EvElopedia:History of the Gallente Federation)).

The Caldari response was to simply try to vent pressure. If the Gallente were using soft oppression to ensure their own economic and political dominance within the Federation, the Caldari who were not pleased with the Federation would simply leave.

Now, this is a critical fact: the colonies, at the time there were founded, were completely legal ((EvElopedia:History of the Gallente Federation)). According to the Federation Charter, establishing independent colonies was perfectly fine. In fact, the other members of the Federation had done it for centuries, although eventually those other colonies joined the Federation.

So why did the Caldari hide them? Because they knew that exactly what happened, would happen. There was no Supreme Court to rule on such issues, and the Gallente-dominated Senate simply voted to force the Caldari to institute Gallente political systems and turn them over to the Federation.

And that was when the Caldari, as a whole, realized that, because of majority rule, there was no such thing as "the rule of law" in the Federation. There was only the "will of the people" - specifically, the largest, biggest group of people. So they left. The Caldari Senators announced secession and the Caldari government turned over its powers and institutions to those megas and CEOs who had been acclaimed by the Caldari as speaking for them.

This still could have been resolved peacefully. The Federation could have let the State go, and that probably would have considerably removed the resentment the Caldari felt. It might even have led to an eventual, more equal, reunion.

But the Federation didn't. It enacted a blockade, almost universally recognized as an act of war, against the Caldari, with the intent of starving them out. And here we all are today.

*Walks into the thread carrying boxes of doughnuts with coffee*

Hey Guys whats going on in this thr-

*Walks back out*

Nope

Are we going to cry about Nouvelle Rouvenor again? The action of a known terrorist group that is, to this day, hunted throughout the State? Have you actually tried hunting down the Templis Dragonaurs, rather than inflicting your anger against the State? I bet that I've killed more Dragonaurs than you have!

I could go on to do a history of the war, but I want to respect the time constraints a reader may operate under. The war started when the Federation initiated it by the hostile act of blockading Caldari Prime and the colonies. A blockade, as opposed to an embargo, is a military act, and is cause for war. It was a wholly disproportionate response. Does that justify Nouvelle Rouvenor? Well, did Nouvelle Rouvenor justify an indiscriminate orbital bombardment of cities and civilians, or the shooting down of fleeing transports loaded with refugees? To both, probably not.

Now, is my account biased? Well, I am Caldari. On the other hand, I've drawn every data point from neutral sources.

As for Caldari who supported the Union, there were some who stayed on the planet when we left, yes. However, the megacorp CEO's who died on the Morning of Reasoning did not "support the Union". The Morning of Reasoning occurred a month into the bombardment and invasion of Caldari Prime, and it was a dispute between those CEOs who favored continued resistance, and those who believed that resistance would result in the complete genocide of the Caldari people ((EvElopedia:History of the Gallente Federation)).

To claim that someone supports you, when in reality they are just trying to keep you from killing them all, is a bit of a stretch.

It should be remembered that the Federation government of the time was so vile that many smaller nations on Gallente Prime tried to secede, but were ruthlessly crushed.

The Morning of Reasoning was not some sort of thuggish murder. Those who sought freedom over life realized that the Caldari had to be completely unified. They were proven right by history - Caldari independence was a very close thing.

The Federation is, by its very nature, a composition of all undersigned polities. Should an 'unhappy' polity wish to secede from the Federation, there are indeed political avenues available to them to pursue that end.

Is it easy? No. The Federation definitely has a vested interest in maintaining the membership of its signatories and keeping the number of independent, potentially hostile, entities within and surrounding it to a minimum.

I would point out that most unhappy polities voice their concerns through the proper political avenues and bodies and their points of concern are quite usually addressed, the Federation would cease to function if that were not true.

The Federation has gone through growing pains and has had some very dark parts of its history, but do not make the mistake of thinking that it has not learned from these points in history or that every polity has suffered as yours did.

Are we going to cry about Home again? The actions of a deposed government that is, to this day, reviled and actively reformed against throughout the Federation? Have you actually focused your attention on supporting those elements within the Federation that would prevent a similar happenstance rather than inflicting your anger against the Federation as a whole? I bet I've done more to prevent a repeat of our past mistakes than you have!

Come now Monsieur Tuulinen, just because you feel justified in your hostility and just because you have a military service record (which is now a mercenary service record, but we'll leave that alone) doesn't mean that the points of contention held by the opposing side are any less valid.

At the time, it was not known that Nouvelle Rouvenoir was the action of a splinter terrorist group just as, at the time, your people had no way of knowing that most of what happened under the direction of the UNAT government was not the will of the people but only of a small group of individuals whom had seized power - our very own little terrorist group that used the government rather than worked under its nose.

Even your statement, Liam, equates the actions of a democratically elected (although, I will admit, swiftly repudiated) government with the actions of an illegal non-state actor. It is not another reminder of the tragedy that was the bombing of Nouvelle Rouvenor that repulses me, but my being hit over the head with it as if I approve of it, as if it was carried out by a representative of the will of the Caldari people. It was a callous act of thuggery carried out by extremists who knew it would provoke a strong reaction at precisely the wrong time. It was designed to precipitate an overreaction, the overreaction was, in fact, the sole point of carrying it out.

And I hate the people who did it - because whilst the secession and the proceeding struggle defined what my people have become, our birth into independence should have been a glorious moment of a proud people rising to meet their destiny and accept it's burden - not a blood-soaked scramble that would ensure that, to this day, we have only grown stronger in fear of you.

You should have been our mentor and guide and, once we took our place, a peer and trading partner. We should have gone to the stars together and explored all the wonders of New Eden in peace and prosperity. Instead of that, look what we have become! Each other's worst fears and the cause of all that is hateful in both of our societies.

That flag that people like Nick and Rinai and yourself see as a beacon of hope and liberty brings dread to the hearts of Caldari children. Our people grow up fearing the sight of your ships in our space and knowing that at any moment we could have to, once again, buy enough time for the freedom of some with the blood of many. I'm sure it's not what you want.

Again, your interpretation is one that follows the reasoning of a particular bias. "Support for the Union" and a belief "that resistance would result in the complete genocide of the Caldari People" are not mutually exclusive. What started as the former before the outbreak of war may have evolved into the latter for some.

As for the neutrality of your sources, there are historical accounts that do in fact describe the CEOs ousted in the Morning of Reasoning as "unionist." I know I read a biography of Tyunaul Seituoda at some point that did so, and I believe there are others.

Not that those CEOs are the only people I was referring to. History is very clear that the CEP purged the Caldari Army of those who had gallente ancestry or sympathies prior to their military takeover of the homeworld. The vicious partisan nature of the war that followed certainly lends itself to the blurring of bright lines.

What galls me about your entire line of reasoning is how you invoke this idea of Gallente abuse of "majority rule" when Caldari history clearly has no concept of protections for the rights of minorities. By what moral framework can the Caldari condemn the actions of the Gallente economic elites who imposed the restrictions upon them that they felt so onerously?

Collective good? Depends on who you include in the collective, obviously. Merit? Depends on how you measure it.

After all, wouldn't those Gallente Elites seen themselves as clearly the most worthy to lead and uplift their neighbors? Wouldn't they have seen their supremacy as the most conducive to the "collective good" of the other member races? Undoubtedly they did. Wasn't there hundreds of years of evidence of the effectiveness of Gallente leadership in advancing primitive societies to support such a viewpoint?

That kind of logic has an insidious kind of appeal, because in the end it is only a mask for self interest.

Which, if you ask me, was the true motive of the CEP. As it continues to be to this day.

Why be a part of someone else's collective when you can rule your own?

I was talking about the rogue CEOs putting their individual self interest first.

If nothing else, I would expect the Caldari to empathise with how this could have happened.
The very same thing occurred within their own borders not so long ago.