Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Null has vastly higher income in reality, ignoring what certain people try and lie about.
Null has the only source of officer modules.
Null is the source of T2 materials
Null has the only source of Pirate BS.
Null has Pirate mission agents.
Null has infinite ore in a single system due to anoms.

If you want to play that game...... Null has plenty going for it already without turning Mining anoms into braindead farms that you don't have to even think about. The Belts already are sufficient for creating balanced ore supply, just Null miners insist on obsolete guides that say 'don't mine in belts because they suck' as gospel and demanded CCP change it for them because they were brainless for so long that they killed their own cash cow.

Also where did I ask for infinite instantly respawning anoms. I asked for self sufficiency, I'm fine with it being in belts and not instantly respawning so there is actually competition for it. Unlike Null who must have it all given to them on a platter.
Really shows who actually wants all the reward with no risk with demands like that.

So how do you plan on not having areas be self sufficienct, but not permitting them to import and export everything of worth.

I'm waiting with bated breath to hear you or any of the other "interdependence" proponents explain how it's supposed to work one JF's get nerfed to 5LY.

You can have self-sufficiency, or you can have Jita dependency + large coalitions, but there's honestly not much middle ground.

We already do to a significant extent. The (R4's?) and R8's and R16's are largely dictated by the price of fuel to tower the moons and the effort to react it and move it to market. The markups on prices that we move depend on the effort it takes to move the material out.

It's more of an issue of being able to export it at all.

A station to station route from my current staging system in Feythbolis takes 14 midpoints to get to a highsec adjacent lowsec with a 5LY jump capable ship. Not all of which are allied to me.

Even if I am feeling suicidal enough to use non station systems as midpoits for my 20+ bil isk cargo+ship, it's still 9 cynos, with only the last two being allied station systems. And that route takes me through three region, with two or more likely being neutral in a Fozziesov EVE.

The level of markups that would be required to offset the time and risk of that route would mean that nobody could afford what you imported, and nobody would risk sending their exports with you. For 9 midpoints through hostile space, you are talking 100% markups at least, and people would rather leave and go live somewhere else than pay that sort of price for all items.

Feythbolis, Period Basis, Paragon Soul, Esoteria, Impass, Omnist, Tenerferis, Detorid, Insmother, The Spire, Outer Passage, Malpais, Perrigen Falls, Oasa, and the Cobalt Edge.

All of these regions are at least 6-7 midpoints from lowsec with a 5LY ship, and all of them have other regions between them and lowsec.

If you cannot safely import then the burden of importing all t2/3/non BPC Faction items is on WH chains, resulting in major markups and prices spike. At the same time, the reward for living there is far less due to requiring all moon goo to be exported though WH chains as well.

TLDR: The regions far from empire get completely deep dicked by any change that reduces the LY range of JF's or removes their fatigue reduction, at least until such time as changes permit a greater degree of local ability to do t2 production.

I actually meant Mexallon, which I believe is currently most efficiently harvested from Plagioclase.

My bad. In my defense they both start with Me......

Dude...I think you need to look up the word irony. Do bubbles work in HS? Can we shoot you in HS with no repercussions? Are there not multiple stations in many systems offer you services?

I have the same question for you. How is highsec going to overcome getting null ore to highsec?
I wait with bated breath....

You belong to a large coalition. You would find a way to overcome logistics issues, just as highsec is going to be forced to do. The net effect of this one-sided change will put highsec industrials in front of your nullsec guns when we try to move null ore to highsec, while you suffer no such risk as you will not need to move ore.

You null guys always going on about risk vs reward but this change erases your risk but keeps ours. As, always CCP seems to only pull their risk vs reward mantra out of their behinds when it benefits null or harms highsec.

There are 15 regions with direct lowsec connnection that can easily export highends to empire.

Unless you are imagining some massive OTEC conspiracy where literally all of non allied alliances all conspire not to send highends to empire for sale, you will still have people exporting bulk highends to you with ease.

The changes to self sufficiency have always been primarily directed towards deep nullsec, not the areas that live close to empire. They will continue to mine and sell you all the higends your peace loving wallet could desire.

This change is something coming directly from CCP for the reason "Yeah, we are going to nerf your JF even more. Here, have a small change so you are not totally ****** if you are not within 5LY of lowsec"



Right, because CCP never nerfs nullsec.

We used to have the ability to spawn high end anomalies anywhere, until CCP killed that by tying it harshly to sec status.
We used to have miners and ratters going along safely in anomalies and belts in highly bubbled systems until CCP added superfast 8au/second bubble immune ceptors.
We used to be able to send a carrier caravan across the map in hours, till CCP cut our jump ranges in half.
We used to be able to make many consecutive jumps, but now a carrier must wait an hour between jumps if he doesn't want to rack up fatigue. And a JF 15 minutes.
We used to be able to get the entire rat bounty directly to our pockets, till CCP decided the steal-able ESM was a good idea and chopped 5% off the top of all rewards unless we used it.
We used to have unprobable t3 boosters till CCP decided they didn't like that cause they were not risky enough.
We used to be the only ones who could compress with a rorqual until they gave highseccers that ability too witht he compression structure, ruining the Rorqual.
We used to be able to punt timers on sov structures for days if we knew we could win the last one, now CCP is making it to so we have to be on guard across our entire territory every day or we can lose it in a single day.

We used to harvest massive amounts of minerals from the drone regions until CCP decided that they should help the poor highsec miners by removing it all and turning entire nullsec regions into **** in the process.
We used to supply lots of minerals locally until CCP cut out meta 0 modules, then reduced drop rates, then cut refining of non ores in half across the board.
We used to export minerals in bulk from highsec using highly efficient 425 railgun compresssion, until CCP killed it.

These last three in particular were all done with the express purpose of "Think of the highsec miners!" Spiked bats to our face, gentle nut buffing for highsec.

So yeah. CCP NEVER NERFS NULLSEC!

Mind telling me how CCP has nerfed highsec lately?

I seem to recall CCP adding compression arrays so you guy could easily compress ore. Whoops not a nerf.

I remember CCP eliminating agent quality levels and adjusting all of them so that they are all now the equivalent of the previous maximum quality so that all agents got a buff and far more were top tier. Whoops also not a nerf.

I remember CCP eliminating station slots so people no longer had to wait months for a slot in a busy system or bother moving to a backwater for slots. Oh god, that's not a nerf either :S

I remember CCP allowing toggle aggression options to remove highsec awoxing. Oops not a nerf.

I remember CCP adding in crimewatch to remove can flipping tricks, and discouraging third party neutral reppers. And... not a nerf.

I remember then rebalancing the barges which resulted in higher EHP retriever and mackinaws, giving them all massive ore bays, and ungankable skiffs. Well ****. Not a nerf.

I remember them removing the standings requirements for anchoring towers. Gee Whizz, not a nerf either!

I remember them allowing people to freely assist defenders in wardecs. Hm. What a nerf.

Poor Poor highsec. That beleaguered space that gets nothing but nerfs while CCP heaps buff after buff on nullsec.

PI is crap in hisec, you need to go to at least 0.2 sec to get decent planets.

market trading is what it is, I doubt it is any more dangerous in null since it is carried out purely in stations. All of the other activities have the level of risk allowed to them by people ganking. If nullsec folks don't like mission runners hopping in and out of level IV's why not go and gank them? I'm sure they will have some juicy big holes in their mission fit that you can exploit. Incursions? Same thing except hit the logi and watch the rest fall. Mining? Join code. Hauling? Join code.

If someone is at their monitor and fit correctly to mitigate risk how is this wrong? If they are interacting socially in a mining fleet and fit for protection how is this wrong? If they are co-operating in an incursion in a social group how is this wrong?

highsec PI never made ISK worth getting involved with, it is even more worthless now with nullsec overlords in control of the offices.

Ive lost 3 decently tanked mackinaws in 0.8 and above systems.

Nullsec trades on the market.

Hauling contracts occur throughout New Eden and highsec hauling pays ****.

Incursions and FW pay well im told but this topic is about mining.