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CCP removing non-choices

Author
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-04-14 20:54:01 UTC
So I just saw something that made me sad; and I have a direct question and a couple of comments.

Recently the "backup" clones were removed because they offer no real choice. Pay the money and get a backup or don't and suffer, as CCP have said they removed this feature because there is no choice in this situation.

When destroyed in combat: -
Loot drops as per normal fairy rating.
killmail generated.
bounties paid as per % of value lost from remaining pool.

When Ship self destructs: -
Loot drops as per normal fairy rating.
killmail generated.
bounties paid as per % of value lost from remaining pool.

When activating self destruct you are making the conscious decision to destroy your own isk/materials whatever. And in order for your SD to actually succeed you need to "tank" whatever is attacking you for a full 2 minutes. But with no advantage to you whatsoever. I don't disagree it should generate a killmail and should pay out from your bounty pool, whoever has made the effort to put you in the situation you are not going to survive deserves the credit for catching you out. But if I have made the choice to blow up my ship and my modules and my cargo, then my ship and my modules and my cargo should all blow up.

My question; Why does the self destruct function still exist? There is no choice here, only that if you're dying slowly you can speed it up.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2015-04-14 20:56:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Never been stuck in a wormhole?

Never been on one side of the galaxy in your empty or very cheap pod and want to get back home quickly?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Memphis Baas
#3 - 2015-04-14 20:59:35 UTC
Why does the transmission setting N still exist on cars?

Self destruct exists because starships should have a self destruct, according to all the sci-fi movies ever. Can't go against the established peculiarities of the genre.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-04-14 21:04:27 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Why does the transmission setting N still exist on cars?

Self destruct exists because starships should have a self destruct, according to all the sci-fi movies ever. Can't go against the established peculiarities of the genre.

And the purpose of it in all these situations? Destroy the ship and it's contents.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#5 - 2015-04-14 21:11:46 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
Why does the transmission setting N still exist on cars?

Self destruct exists because starships should have a self destruct, according to all the sci-fi movies ever. Can't go against the established peculiarities of the genre.

And the purpose of it in all these situations? Destroy the ship and it's contents.



except you can;t destroy all a ships content. there will always be something to be recovered or salvaged. nothing is ever fully destroyed. even when we set charges on buildings or ships to blow them up, you can still find whole pieces of equipment intact.

What you are saying is you want SD to vaporize the ship so no one gets anything? Thats not really possible,

i would agree that SD should nuke everything in yoru cargo hold, but your ships systems and equipment? nope

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#6 - 2015-04-14 21:52:24 UTC
One of these days, the Eve forum community is going to get together and build the ultimate bike shed.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Stacy Lone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-04-14 22:03:41 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
S

My question; Why does the self destruct function still exist? There is no choice here, only that if you're dying slowly you can speed it up.


Because it is needed. When you are stuck in a wormhole. Or somewhere entirely else.

The real question you seem to want to ask is: "Why doesn't it destroy everything? Why does loot drop?"

There are two answers: First and foremost, because of gameplay and balancing reasons. If you could blow up your ship and nothing would drop, you could deny your enemies their hard earned spoils of war. This isn't as much of a problem for subcaps, but is very problematic for caps/supers/titans. If i'm shooting a carrier, then I should have the chance to get he loot and not be denied just because my enemy chose to SD.

And secondly, a more in-lore explanation: even SD doesn't vaporize everything perfectly. It's just more controlled, but it is still only a few charges placed over the ship to blow it into pieces. It is very likely that some modules would stay intact and that parts of the hull can be salvaged.

tl:dr: SD is fine as it is ;)
Jenshae Chiroptera
#8 - 2015-04-14 22:16:11 UTC
If a hostile system or pipe is perfectly locked down, I have been known to fly and warp around to evade the enemy, pull out my implants and self destruct to spite them.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-04-14 22:29:23 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Why does the transmission setting N still exist on cars?


For when you go through a carwash...

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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#10 - 2015-04-14 22:36:33 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Why does the transmission setting N still exist on cars?

clearly someone has never had to get out and push
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-04-14 23:28:28 UTC
Stacy Lone wrote:
Moonlit Raid wrote:
S

My question; Why does the self destruct function still exist? There is no choice here, only that if you're dying slowly you can speed it up.


Because it is needed. When you are stuck in a wormhole. Or somewhere entirely else.

The real question you seem to want to ask is: "Why doesn't it destroy everything? Why does loot drop?"

There are two answers: First and foremost, because of gameplay and balancing reasons. If you could blow up your ship and nothing would drop, you could deny your enemies their hard earned spoils of war. This isn't as much of a problem for subcaps, but is very problematic for caps/supers/titans. If i'm shooting a carrier, then I should have the chance to get he loot and not be denied just because my enemy chose to SD.

And secondly, a more in-lore explanation: even SD doesn't vaporize everything perfectly. It's just more controlled, but it is still only a few charges placed over the ship to blow it into pieces. It is very likely that some modules would stay intact and that parts of the hull can be salvaged.

tl:dr: SD is fine as it is ;)

That's entirely the point.

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#12 - 2015-04-14 23:38:00 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Stacy Lone wrote:
tl:dr: SD is fine as it is ;)

That's entirely the point.

So you agree now.
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-04-14 23:47:19 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:

So you agree now.

Read Strawman

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.

Omar Alharazaad
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-04-15 00:13:35 UTC
While I am a big fan of spite, it keeps me waking up every day, I get why things work the way they do.
Whenever you undock you risk having what's yours become someone else's, and a perfect self-destruct would defeat that notion.

Self Destruct is not supposed to be an all powerful ****-block move.

I mean if you REALLY REALLY want to deny your adversaries your stuff I suppose you could drop a yurt, unfit everything but a single gun, eject it and shoot the can. Seems like a lot of work in a very short period of time to me.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Paranoid Loyd
#15 - 2015-04-15 00:21:39 UTC
Moonlit Raid wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

So you agree now.

Read Strawman

You need to rewrite your OP then, because you are not making any sense.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#16 - 2015-04-15 01:17:50 UTC
I kinda like the idea of SD blowing up all the loot, but at the same time I don't really care enough either way to say anything more than this

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-04-15 01:22:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Caviar Liberta
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
If a hostile system or pipe is perfectly locked down, I have been known to fly and warp around to evade the enemy, pull out my implants and self destruct to spite them.


This is why our fleets don't wait for everyone to get on a pod kill.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#18 - 2015-04-15 01:53:27 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Why does the transmission setting N still exist on cars?

So you can look cool when you're stopped at a red, of course.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin

Jenshae Chiroptera
#19 - 2015-04-15 02:18:05 UTC
Caviar Liberta wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
If a hostile system or pipe is perfectly locked down, I have been known to fly and warp around to evade the enemy, pull out my implants and self destruct to spite them.
This is why our fleets don't wait for everyone to get on a pod kill.
If you get as far as a pod.
I have had a whole gang star burst and self destruct when they were trapped between two larger gangs.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#20 - 2015-04-15 02:35:20 UTC
If xenomorphs make it into the EVE universe it will be even harder to get rid of them here, since we can't totally self destruct a ship. So there's that.
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