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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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[New structures] Mooring and docking features

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d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#381 - 2015-04-12 01:21:48 UTC
+1 to removing watch list and nerfing locator agents.

Been around since the beginning.
Odin Shadow
ZC Industries
Dark Stripes
#382 - 2015-04-12 06:15:36 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:
+1 to removing watch list and nerfing locator agents.


can we just remove mooring and introduce staging structures (aka large control tower)
Lugh Crow-Slave
#383 - 2015-04-12 11:31:17 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
MukkBarovian wrote:
The new mooring mechanics are interesting and look cool.

They do not replace pos mechanics. If I cannot safely log off so that I can go on vacation or spend two weeks cramming for exams then you will lose some of my subscriptions.

Please explain to me how a POS allows you to log off safely for two weeks. Then I will believe your argument has merit.

Much as I do believe Moored ships should be safe and do an auto 'safe warp & log off' that can't be stopped if the structure is flipped. Otherwise people will just never use Mooring for more than 30 minutes.
But I believe you are asking for something that a current POS does not provide.



not to mention since POS are still going to be around for a while after we can see how it works out and if needed a similar deployable to the current POS shield may need to be added

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#384 - 2015-04-12 19:47:57 UTC
In lieu of having a grad limit to docking supers, there could be a mechanic to increase the time it takes to dock a ship the more that are stored there. Anything under the desired limit would moor exactly as would be expected, but the more you have above that limit the more difficult it becomes to use it quickly.
Cade Windstalker
#385 - 2015-04-13 05:14:32 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
not to mention since POS are still going to be around for a while after we can see how it works out and if needed a similar deployable to the current POS shield may need to be added


They want to remove the current POS shield because there are a few problems with the current mechanics. Like that they're really really easy to abuse since they're entirely location based instead of state based and involve physics. Both of which make it really easy to create and exploit edge-case behavior.

Rowells wrote:
In lieu of having a grad limit to docking supers, there could be a mechanic to increase the time it takes to dock a ship the more that are stored there. Anything under the desired limit would moor exactly as would be expected, but the more you have above that limit the more difficult it becomes to use it quickly.


I don't really see this as necessary. There are already enough risks associated with having all your Supers in one egg-basket for this added disincentive to not be needed. The only time it would ever come into play is in cases where it gets someone killed, at which point why are we punishing them because their friends are moored at that structure?
Hafwolf
Git R Done Resources
#386 - 2015-04-13 15:30:39 UTC
An idea with mooring ships maybe instead of a moored ship becoming not active it becomes part of the platform defense. Carriers and dreads would ad there drones and weapons. it makes sense that the weapons system of a moored ship would add to the defence of the platform. This could also be used with the bonuses that a capital ship can provide. A dread the platform could go in siege mode and if a carrier is moored it could go in triage mode. Or if an orca or rorqual are moored those ships could give mining bonus to a mining fleet. This would require the skills of the pilot to moor the ship. Plus they would risk the ship if they left it moored while they were offline. I mean carrier,super,and Titan pilots if they log off with out getting back in there ships then they deserve to loose there ships.
Sean Crees
Sean's Safe Haven
#387 - 2015-04-13 18:50:15 UTC
I'm sure i'm overlooking some major reason why this can't work, but is there any chance of Mooring a super or titan to an NPC station in low or nullsec? I'd love to be able to buy and fly one of these ships one day, but i'm not looking to buy or train an alt for it, and i don't want to be stuck in a ship that just floats in space when i log off. I'd need to have the ability to dock (or in this case moore) my super to an NPC station so i can leave it and go fly other things at times.
Cade Windstalker
#388 - 2015-04-13 21:43:47 UTC
Hafwolf wrote:
An idea with mooring ships maybe instead of a moored ship becoming not active it becomes part of the platform defense. Carriers and dreads would ad there drones and weapons. it makes sense that the weapons system of a moored ship would add to the defence of the platform. This could also be used with the bonuses that a capital ship can provide. A dread the platform could go in siege mode and if a carrier is moored it could go in triage mode. Or if an orca or rorqual are moored those ships could give mining bonus to a mining fleet. This would require the skills of the pilot to moor the ship. Plus they would risk the ship if they left it moored while they were offline. I mean carrier,super,and Titan pilots if they log off with out getting back in there ships then they deserve to loose there ships.


This sounds like Skynet. You know, that thing Carriers could do for no risk that they just removed with extreme prejudice.
Hafwolf
Git R Done Resources
#389 - 2015-04-13 22:20:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Hafwolf
Cade Windstalker wrote:
This sounds like Skynet. You know, that thing Carriers could do for no risk that they just removed with extreme prejudice.



The guns or drones would be in defense of the structure it self. The way I look at it is say that you have a hub structure you can moor your carrier in while you go ratting in your tengu or pvp in what ever ship. With your skills if you own the structure you can activate your command links on your carrier and deploy fighters or sentries to defend the structure while you are away. It would act like the pos guns that don't need someone there to use them. If you are then you can choose which guns you want to have access to to defend the structure.

Same with a dread if you dock your dread to go sub cap pvp your dread's weapons become part of the structure gun system and will shoot at targets the structure says fire. With a with a dread if you want it to put the structure in a siege mode while the structure is defending it self I would thing that would be an option.

The point is the structures are going to have defense slots to use weapons on the structure why not allow the structure to use any weapon system on the ships that are moored to increase the protection of the structure. If your going to risk your ship with mooring it should help with its defense. I think using command links and drones to defend the structure makes sense.
Cade Windstalker
#390 - 2015-04-13 22:33:57 UTC
Hafwolf wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
This sounds like Skynet. You know, that thing Carriers could do for no risk that they just removed with extreme prejudice.



The guns or drones would be in defense of the structure it self. The way I look at it is say that you have a hub structure you can moor your carrier in while you go ratting in your tengu or pvp in what ever ship. With your skills if you own the structure you can activate your command links on your carrier and deploy fighters or sentries to defend the structure while you are away. It would act like the pos guns that don't need someone there to use them. If you are then you can choose which guns you want to have access to to defend the structure.

Same with a dread if you dock your dread to go sub cap pvp your dread's weapons become part of the structure gun system and will shoot at targets the structure says fire. With a with a dread if you want it to put the structure in a siege mode while the structure is defending it self I would thing that would be an option.

The point is the structures are going to have defense slots to use weapons on the structure why not allow the structure to use any weapon system on the ships that are moored to increase the protection of the structure. If your going to risk your ship with mooring it should help with its defense. I think using command links and drones to defend the structure makes sense.


Because this sounds really really really easy to abuse to give a structure absurd amounts of unkillable DPS in the form of endless waves of drones and super-tracking faction Battleships or just, you know, Moor a bunch of Titans there.

These structures are going to have their own fittings and guns so there's their defense, your benefit in mooring your ship should be that your ship is safe, not that it now acts as a super-POS gun.

It's far easier to balance these things if they have their own defenses independent of ship guns and modules.
Hafwolf
Git R Done Resources
#391 - 2015-04-13 22:56:17 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:

Because this sounds really really really easy to abuse to give a structure absurd amounts of unkillable DPS in the form of endless waves of drones and super-tracking faction Battleships or just, you know, Moor a bunch of Titans there.

These structures are going to have their own fittings and guns so there's their defense, your benefit in mooring your ship should be that your ship is safe, not that it now acts as a super-POS gun.

It's far easier to balance these things if they have their own defenses independent of ship guns and modules.



If you actually read my post a person would have to deploy what they wanted to use before they left.

If you read the dev blog there would be only mooring capital ships and larger.

As far as I can see there is no reason for me ever to get a super carrier or titan ever because that is no way I can do something with out that ship. However if I could moor it to a structure and go ratting or on a roam for a few hours and give control of my titans guns or supers flight of fighters to the structure to assist in defense I might actually think of moving in that direction however as I see it capital ships and super capitals should be removed from the game right now because they are basically useless except for logistics.
Cade Windstalker
#392 - 2015-04-13 23:44:01 UTC
Hafwolf wrote:
If you actually read my post a person would have to deploy what they wanted to use before they left.

If you read the dev blog there would be only mooring capital ships and larger.

As far as I can see there is no reason for me ever to get a super carrier or titan ever because that is no way I can do something with out that ship. However if I could moor it to a structure and go ratting or on a roam for a few hours and give control of my titans guns or supers flight of fighters to the structure to assist in defense I might actually think of moving in that direction however as I see it capital ships and super capitals should be removed from the game right now because they are basically useless except for logistics.


There's actually no indication that Mooring is limited to capitals or not. All of this is in the high level idea phase, the dev blog specifies capitals but it doesn't limit the function to them.

I don't see how giving structures a fleet of dreads worth of guns is going to fix Supers gameplay. I don't think anyone that I've seen is denying that Caps and Supers are in a bad spot right now but I don't see how this is a good fix for that.
Kate Ragnarok
Git R Done Resources
#393 - 2015-04-14 00:37:30 UTC
I don't think anyone trusts there corp or there alliance to leave there ship moored basically floating in a pos that everyone has access to. I could see a lot of corp theft of moored ships. I see most people using personal structures for capitals. I think any ship smaller should be docked. Only capitals should be moored with a structure. In an XL structure carriers, dreads, and freighters can be docked.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#394 - 2015-04-14 00:41:14 UTC
Kate Ragnarok wrote:
I don't think anyone trusts there corp or there alliance to leave there ship moored basically floating in a pos that everyone has access to. I could see a lot of corp theft of moored ships. I see most people using personal structures for capitals. I think any ship smaller should be docked. Only capitals should be moored with a structure. In an XL structure carriers, dreads, and freighters can be docked.

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't remember any suggestion to make mooring work like CSMA hangars. It seems to be leaning toward acting more like curre t station hangars.
Kate Ragnarok
Git R Done Resources
#395 - 2015-04-14 00:45:20 UTC
When I read the blog mooring was basically you can abandon the ship next to the structure and it would become invisible and cannot be bumped off its position. However if your corp or alliance has access to that structure they have access to your ship.

I don't think mooring is like docking. I think docking was going to be looked at for smaller ships. I think there is a reason for having the new structures be able to be configured for person, corp, or alliance use.
Cade Windstalker
#396 - 2015-04-14 01:24:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Kate Ragnarok wrote:
When I read the blog mooring was basically you can abandon the ship next to the structure and it would become invisible and cannot be bumped off its position. However if your corp or alliance has access to that structure they have access to your ship.

I don't think mooring is like docking. I think docking was going to be looked at for smaller ships. I think there is a reason for having the new structures be able to be configured for person, corp, or alliance use.


You're assuming that Moored ships can be accessed by anyone. They could act like a Corp Hangar which only certain people have access to, or even be locked down to the individual who owns the ship. Also I'm pretty sure Mooring is going to be an action in space, not something that happens automatically when you exit a ship.

There's also nothing saying no mooring for smaller ships. Either at Large structures or in general. Personally I think being able to Moor smaller ships makes things more interesting unless there's some reason it breaks gameplay or otherwise causes problems.
Odin Shadow
ZC Industries
Dark Stripes
#397 - 2015-04-14 15:14:25 UTC
xttz wrote:
For this thread to go much further, we're going to need some input from CCP devs on the following points:


  • What do you expect the general role of (super)caps to be in the future?

  • What are the overall goal(s) of a mooring mechanic? Is it simply to provide an equivalent to docking for ships that you don't want to be able benefit from docking normally (such as by trading or reprocessing hulls)?

  • Should there be some advantage in the use of a mooring mechanic to encourage its use over simply logging off in space?

  • What level of risk do you think is appropriate for (super)caps that are logged on but haven't made an explicit decision to enter a fight? (in the same way as docked characters)
    • For example; should a supercap pilot who logs on to change skills always be vulnerable in some form? Should one who hasn't logged on for a week due to real life still be vulnerable?


My personal take on this is simple; raise the risk threshold too high and the net result will be a bunch of supercap alts that never log on (or even resub) again. There will also be an undoubted knock-on effect from this, as despite being fairly ubiquitous these days supercaps are still a motivating target for content. Very few people pass up on a chance to blow them up, and I've seen more than a few people resub accounts for the opportunity to do so.

If the risk involved in day-to-day use of supercaps (outside of regular combat) is too high, this valuable avenue of content and subscriptions will be lost. That will be a shame for everyone, not just the owners. EVE works best when people have room to misjudge their own safety, not when they simply assume they have none at all.


really need some input from ccp
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#398 - 2015-04-14 18:37:18 UTC
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
If super capitals did not disappear while moored; what other mechanics would need to be there to make it worth the risk? Furthermore what would need to happen for a pilot to want to log off with their capital moored for the night or even a couple days? Instead of just logging off at a safe spot.

Perhaps some of the abilities of the super capital could be accessed by corp/alliance members to use against hostile a outside the station while it is moored that is available even though the owner is not logged in? That might make it worth mooring and even built for the purpose of an alliance asset instead of a single players shiny.

Just tossing out ideas.


This is interesting.

So, since stations can be fitted, I just assume that to take control of their guns, they can also be piloted like ships. (if there is a dev statement to confirm or infirm this, please link it)

If a moored ship's targeted modules could be activated by the pilot controlling the station, this would a very good reason to keep caps moored.

However, I'm not sure it would be very balanced if DDDs or even siege/triage modules could be activated on the moored ships. At the same time, an unsieged dread wouldn't do much to defend the station. I'm also not sure what to think of the station "pilot" controlling a swarm of drones/fighters/fighterbombers from the moored (super)carriers.

But yeah, the general idea of moored capitals doing something for the station sounds like a good incentive to moor them in the first place.

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#399 - 2015-04-14 19:40:29 UTC
Iris Bravemount wrote:

This is interesting.

So, since stations can be fitted, I just assume that to take control of their guns, they can also be piloted like ships. (if there is a dev statement to confirm or infirm this, please link it)

Directly mentioned that this is their intent in the Fanfest presentations. You take control, you run the entire station as if it were just one ship with 0 speed.
Cade Windstalker
#400 - 2015-04-14 22:21:06 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Directly mentioned that this is their intent in the Fanfest presentations. You take control, you run the entire station as if it were just one ship with 0 speed.


They specified player controlled guns, I don't think they specified how many players, but yes.

This is part of why I don't see them letting moored ships actually do anything. They're safe, they shouldn't be having an impact on the grid around them without risking themselves.

Otherwise this isn't so much an incentive to use mooring as a way to abuse it.