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Warfare & Tactics

 
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Kiting is not cancer...

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Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#41 - 2015-04-13 03:09:04 UTC
Players are going to set up well crafted kill zones - especially in low sec. A better question is whether or not the number and significance of conflict drivers in low sec are enough to get veterans to leave said kill zones - or get a sufficient number of players organized enough to disrupt them.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2015-04-13 07:48:12 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Garmurs would be alot more reasonable without offgrid links.


i do not see how links affect anything on ship balance.


Because the Worm and Garmur go from really good without links to god mode with them. I don't think we need god mode rewards for bittervets. A ship that punches out 130 DPS with light missiles at 70k with a point at the same range and can hold orbit at 8k m/s is too much. Likewise a linked snaked worm can probably top 6k cold with 200 DPS drones each having the EHP of an interceptor. Having spent a huge amount of time playing this game should not entitle you to a win button. The cumulative advantage in SP, assets, and experience is enough.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2015-04-13 07:49:46 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
You mean like when I warp to zero or (very occasionally) 10km from my neutral scout?


Not quite but close. Now let's do some baby steps first. First click the stargate/station and orbit at 3000 meters. I know I know it's scary to be out of jump/dock range of the stargate/station but it is needed to actually move your ship which is the first step in kiting(your ship moving).

Post again if you have done it and tell us how does it feel to be out of range of the gate/station.


Hope you have a neutral Jita alt...hilarious though.
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2015-04-13 09:16:32 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
You mean like when I warp to zero or (very occasionally) 10km from my neutral scout?


Not quite but close. Now let's do some baby steps first. First click the stargate/station and orbit at 3000 meters. I know I know it's scary to be out of jump/dock range of the stargate/station but it is needed to actually move your ship which is the first step in kiting(your ship moving).

Post again if you have done it and tell us how does it feel to be out of range of the gate/station.


Hope you have a neutral Jita alt...hilarious though.


I hope you like your empty threats. Seeing as I just lectured someone new to FW a few days ago about the pros of a neutral jita alts and 3rd party haulers.

PS I just had some more datacores shipped to jita for my jita alt to sell.P

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#45 - 2015-04-13 10:10:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Hope you have a neutral Jita alt...hilarious though.

considering that I myself started this joke and that about 100% of my kills in jita are other mercs because (shock horror) in reality not all mercs are immobile trade hub campers I don't think he has anything to worry about.
Plato Forko
123 Fake Street
#46 - 2015-04-13 21:48:35 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Because the Worm and Garmur go from really good without links to god mode with them. I don't think we need god mode rewards for bittervets. A ship that punches out 130 DPS with light missiles at 70k with a point at the same range and can hold orbit at 8k m/s is too much. Likewise a linked snaked worm can probably top 6k cold with 200 DPS drones each having the EHP of an interceptor. Having spent a huge amount of time playing this game should not entitle you to a win button. The cumulative advantage in SP, assets, and experience is enough.


eh, Worm's not really that unreasonable, I've seen solo kills by dessies and plenty of 2-3 man gangs can take them down. I think hot drone DPS is a recipe for overconfidence and the hull ranks under the Hawk in terms of tank potential so those factors naturally increase risk.

Garmur is a whole new ship though, maybe threads like this will emphasize the need to tweak it. It would be nice if it got a speed nerf to bring it in line with Caldari combat frigs. Hardly seems fair to give a ship all the best aspects of both a combat frig and also an attack frig. With the slot layout it already has, a speed buff would still keep it at better stats than the Hookbill, that should be enough to balance it with the rest of the pirate frigs.
flakeys
Doomheim
#47 - 2015-04-16 10:56:25 UTC
ggodhsup wrote:
it is ridiculous to me why someone would engage a kiting ship solo.

in any ship.

that being said, there is a reason i havent suffered a single lossmail to a garmur.

there are just ships that when i see them i d-scan i make sure im not on grid with them.

some people just have a hard time grasping the meta and use of d-scan.



I've allways found it more fun to take that fight wich seems against your odds , solo fights mind you .Sure you'll loose a lot but then the times you do win the fight it is 100 times more satisfying then taking that fight wich you allready assumed would go your way.

But to each their own.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Philpip
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#48 - 2015-04-17 15:27:02 UTC
Christine Peeveepeeski wrote:
Doji Okakura wrote:
I love ppl flying t3 dessies in pvp. The tears when i kill them are awesome, and they were even greater when the t3's cost 200-300mill Lol


That's odd, I see no t3 kills on your killboard.

Nor in fact more than 20 lifetime kills.

Perhaps you accidentally posted with an alt?


This made me chuckle Big smile

No, you were not blobbed, you just didn't bring enough people to the fight!
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#49 - 2015-04-18 00:50:39 UTC
Kiting is the most honorable form of combat. It is actually way inferior to brawling, YOUR player skill alone makes it possible to compete. Brawling is just approach and turn on all module. No skill there. While kiting you have to manage your range using the orbit/keep range button and if youre in a bad ship like a non faction prop mod Orthrus you will need to turn off your prop mod sometimes to conserve cap. While brawling you have none of these problems.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
Desudes
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2015-04-18 06:07:50 UTC
they should put long range webs/points into the game

Excuse me, but what the f*ck are you desu?
Valkin Mordirc
#51 - 2015-04-18 06:29:13 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Hope you have a neutral Jita alt...hilarious though.

considering that I myself started this joke and that about 100% of my kills in jita are other mercs because (shock horror) in reality not all mercs are immobile trade hub campers I don't think he has anything to worry about.



Break-A-Wish is last mercenary corp I would call "Campers"

Any other the others, by all means. Camper Ahoy.


Break-A-Wish not so much,
#DeleteTheWeak
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#52 - 2015-04-20 03:33:22 UTC
Pursuit of Happiness also can't typically be found camping, Forsaken Asylum aren't big on it either. Right now your big trade hub camping culprits are Marmite and Absolute Defiance with some Failed Diplomacy mixed in.

Regardless, point was kiting is virtually non-existent in highsec due to the bizarre nature of highsec PVP gameplay. Anti-D3 Orthrus fleets and Pursuits tengu doctrine are exceptions.
wilgotna
Perkone
Caldari State
#53 - 2015-04-24 07:37:40 UTC
crosi is... well lets just say his skin is very pale and one of his arms is bigger than the other...

he is putting... lets count
4 bil pod
200+ mil garmur
500 mil boosting loki all into play

theoretically you should have to match his isk investment in order to compete.

that said, i think the point range bonus on a missile frigate is just a poor design decision for the meta
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#54 - 2015-04-24 14:21:34 UTC
Desudes wrote:
they should put long range webs/points into the game


Loki/Rapier/Huginn/Arazu/Garmur. I dunno man. Unless you're talking about 200 km webs/points....

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Dana Goodeye
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#55 - 2015-04-25 17:03:43 UTC
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
Kiting is the most honorable form of combat. It is actually way inferior to brawling, YOUR player skill alone makes it possible to compete. Brawling is just approach and turn on all module. No skill there. While kiting you have to manage your range using the orbit/keep range button and if youre in a bad ship like a non faction prop mod Orthrus you will need to turn off your prop mod sometimes to conserve cap. While brawling you have none of these problems.

you know nothing about brawling as it seems... brawling need skills as well. you have to manage yor mods, changing range if needed, and such. i know, kiting sucesfully is harder, but please... dont take away my credit about my kills. at the end it will turn out, with a brawler frig, i can afk pvp :P
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#56 - 2015-04-25 17:56:31 UTC
wilgotna wrote:
crosi is... well lets just say his skin is very pale and one of his arms is bigger than the other...

Wrong thread, i think you were looking for the 'projecting our insecurities on others' thread


No doubt the garmur has a very effective set of bonuses. As ive said though, the game isnt balanced around isk and all the counters to the garmurs bonuses happen to be a lot cheaper, with the exception of a properly supported dram perhaps.
wilgotna
Perkone
Caldari State
#57 - 2015-04-26 00:56:10 UTC  |  Edited by: wilgotna
crosi try alternating your crank arm so you dont look so silly

when i look at the garmur and the t3 dessies i can only think: "does ccp even play this game?"

if ccp actually played the game they would realize that in the frigate/dessie meta there were some very overpowered ships

in the novice plex there is the snaked/linked condor/hookbill, hit orbit, turn on your launchers, then close your eyes cuz you just won the fight

in the small plex there is the "qcats" 10mn pulse coercer and "quake590" 10mn 250arty thrasher

so what genius idea does ccp come up with??

they make an even friggin stronger version of the condor/hookbill

and then they make an even friggin stronger version of the coercer/thrasher

these pvp ships are being conceptualized and brought into the game by people who DONT EVEN PVP. why god why

dont even get me started on the stupidity of buffing frigate ewar (keres kitsune)
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#58 - 2015-04-26 03:23:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
wilgotna wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
wilgotna wrote:
crosi is... well lets just say his skin is very pale and one of his arms is bigger than the other...

Wrong thread, i think you were looking for the 'projecting our insecurities on others' thread


No doubt the garmur has a very effective set of bonuses. As ive said though, the game isnt balanced around isk and all the counters to the garmurs bonuses happen to be a lot cheaper, with the exception of a properly supported dram perhaps.


nah the garmur is just poorly designed.

ways to maybe fix it:
1. get rid of 1 mid
2. nerf its cap so it cant perma run all its mids

PS crosi try alternating your crank arm so you dont look so silly


I dont even understand that insult, are you...ok? You are very bitter for someone who i barely remember and whos beef seems to be my choice of pixels in a computer game or perhaps some comlex derived from it lol. In this you are not alone so dont feel too bad :}

As for those tweaks, nah, garmur is fine the way it is. There are more ways to kill a garmur than some other frigs out there. Peoples biggest valid complaint is that it runs away at the first sign of a counter. That attribute is not ship related or limited to the garmur

The rest of your post falls into the 'why isnt eve balanced for 1v1' category and can be disregarded. People seem to be having fun with the new ships, its only people who feel entitled to fair fights whos life it seems to br ruining. Would you like a hug?
wilgotna
Perkone
Caldari State
#59 - 2015-04-26 03:38:52 UTC
crosi every time you respond to me its either a pathetic straw man, or you say im mad. just quiet down

let me draw an analogy for the creation of the garmur/orthrus/t3 dessies that maybe you will be able to understand

remember the time when the rifter was considered overpowered?

what if ccp then created a new ship that was everything the rifter was, except even stronger and its bonuses even more exagerated. thats what the garmur/svip is
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#60 - 2015-04-26 04:01:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
wilgotna wrote:
crosi every time you respond to me its either a pathetic straw man, or you say im mad. just quiet down


WOW lol, I have been perfectly civil and havent insulted you once, but you are clearly mad. I let your insults, strawmen and projection slide because i assume there is an out of game reason you are so hostile to people who play certain ways in a space submawrine game. However, Im not really interested in your oog issues.

CCP recognised the problem wth the rifter in its class was the other t1 frigates being almost completely useless and fixed them. The rifters shift from best to not that good, outside some changes to projectiles, was not achieved through changes to the hull. As such, this exam[ple doesnt support you argument very well at all.