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Acceleration, Aligning, and Warp Mechanics
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Noctaly
Core Industry.
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2015-04-12 10:14:10 UTC
Hello folks,

I am trying to understand better the warp mechanics within EvE Online. Here is what I understood so far :

- You enter warp when your are aligned to your destination and you reach 75% of your top speed.

As far as I understand it, there are two steps in the warp process :

- Aligning to your destination
- Accelerating until you reach 75% of your max velocity

The second part, Acceleration, is easy to compute. It will depends of your ship mass and inertia modifier. The formula is well known and stated on the following pages :

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Aligning
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Acceleration (Same formula as above, simply more generic)
http://wiki.eve-id.net/Equations#Fighting_Equations

I have however no idea how to calculate your 'aligning to the destination time'. Suppose I want to warp to something behind me. I will have to do a 180° turn. How much time will I need for it ? Since I am accelerating while aligning, how can I factor that into my "time to warp" formula ?
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-04-12 10:26:24 UTC
it's a bit tricky there are a couple things to think about:

1. If you're sitting at 0 velocity, time taken to warp is exactly the same no matter what direction you are facing in.

2. Thus you just need to figure out time taken to decelerate when you have velocity in a direction you're not warping in and add it to your base align time.

Art of Explosions
Noctaly
Core Industry.
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2015-04-12 10:36:54 UTC
Thank you for your answer
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

1. If you're sitting at 0 velocity, time taken to warp is exactly the same no matter what direction you are facing in.

Does it mean that while turning, I am also accelerating at the same time with the maximum possible acceleration ? If so, it's indeed quite easy to compute :D
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-04-12 10:44:46 UTC
Noctaly wrote:
Thank you for your answer
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

1. If you're sitting at 0 velocity, time taken to warp is exactly the same no matter what direction you are facing in.

Does it mean that while turning, I am also accelerating at the same time with the maximum possible acceleration ? If so, it's indeed quite easy to compute :D


Ships in EVE are not computed with any "direction" so to speak. In terms of the game engine each ship is a sphere.

The only time direction matters is when you have velocity in a direction that isn't where you are warping.

Art of Explosions
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#5 - 2015-04-12 10:49:33 UTC
Tsukino Stareine is korrekt.

I take my shirt off and pretend I'm on a submarine. Cool

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Noctaly
Core Industry.
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2015-04-12 10:58:01 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

Ships in EVE are not computed with any "direction" so to speak. In terms of the game engine each ship is a sphere.

The only time direction matters is when you have velocity in a direction that isn't where you are warping.

Perfect, that's exactly what I am looking for. Thank you very much :D
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-04-12 11:04:04 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
In terms of the game engine each ship is a sphere.


As an aside, this also explains what a ship's "signature radius" is. It's not just nonsense words, it's actually referring to the size of your sphere, so a target painter increases the literal size of an opposing ship, as far as the server is concerned.

Grrr.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#8 - 2015-04-12 11:16:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Microwarpdrives and afterburners affect align times and in the case of MWDs also cause a signature radius bloom.
In addition webs affect the time to warp by changing the speeds involved, but not their relationship.

You may find Jesters post on getting battleships to warp rapidly and the Eve Uni one on advanced piloting to be of interest.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2015-04-12 11:56:33 UTC
another thing to note is that it's not 75% or your current max speed it's 75-105%. So if you are aligned with your MWD on and someone scrams and webs you so that your MWD turns off and your are now webbed and your current speed is 500% + of your max speed then you can not warp until you slow down to 105% or less or your max speed increases to get you in the 75-105% range.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#10 - 2015-04-12 13:30:34 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
In terms of the game engine each ship is a sphere.


As an aside, this also explains what a ship's "signature radius" is. It's not just nonsense words, it's actually referring to the size of your sphere, so a target painter increases the literal size of an opposing ship, as far as the server is concerned.


Does it now? Blink

Can you prove the increase in said sphere radius by collision detection?

Target painted Machariels are a Go!

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-04-12 13:54:01 UTC
I gave up on "calculation", just follow intuition and experience. If you want to warp as fast as the numbers permit be at a stand still, for instawarp be aligned and on speed. For fast escape, choose a target near to current alignment and turn your prop mod off. Everything else is usually not under your control anyway.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-04-12 13:57:55 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Azda Ja wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
In terms of the game engine each ship is a sphere.


As an aside, this also explains what a ship's "signature radius" is. It's not just nonsense words, it's actually referring to the size of your sphere, so a target painter increases the literal size of an opposing ship, as far as the server is concerned.


Does it now? Blink

Can you prove the increase in said sphere radius by collision detection?

Target painted Machariels are a Go!

You mean target painted MWDing Machariels are a go P.

Grrr.
Noctaly
Core Industry.
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2015-04-12 14:00:48 UTC
Thank you all for your posts, there are some interesting information right there Big smile

One more thing I was thinking of. How do ships decelerrate ? I found this Rubicon Dev Blog (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=283132) regarding warp speed change, and there is a deceleration line which speed is one third of the top warp speed. Does it mean that at one fixed distance before landing we start decelerating using the opposite of the formula for acceleration ?
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-04-12 14:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
Noctaly wrote:
Thank you all for your posts, there are some interesting information right there Big smile

One more thing I was thinking of. How do ships decelerrate ? I found this Rubicon Dev Blog (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=283132) regarding warp speed change, and there is a deceleration line which speed is one third of the top warp speed. Does it mean that at one fixed distance before landing we start decelerating using the opposite of the formula for acceleration ?

No, warp deceleration is a different mechanism, it is the time it takes you from the text "warping" to the speed number, which is the point in time where you can lock and being locked. It is based on the warp speed of your ship and floored at 2sec iirc. The faster the warp speed of the ship the faster you can lock after warp.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Noctaly
Core Industry.
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2015-04-12 14:21:24 UTC
That's noted !
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-04-12 14:23:45 UTC
Pro tip: there is a new indicator for that point in time. Just watch your target window (with the warp, align, ...buttons), if the buttons light up and are functional again, you are out of warp and can start your actions.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-04-12 14:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
Pro tip 2: you are not lockable during that time plus some 2-3sec if you are not doing anything. Take that time to assess the situation and position your mouse over the right buttons, e.g. select target on overview and hover the align button.

EDIT: sorry, you are not lockable but can take damage from AOE weapons like smart bombs in your proximity.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Noctaly
Core Industry.
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2015-04-12 15:55:09 UTC
Thanks for the tips :D

I mainly want to calculate the warp time needed per distance. I noticed that the ship speed is decrease at the end of the warp and I wondered how it would affect travel times :)
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#19 - 2015-04-12 17:55:52 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
Azda Ja wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
In terms of the game engine each ship is a sphere.


As an aside, this also explains what a ship's "signature radius" is. It's not just nonsense words, it's actually referring to the size of your sphere, so a target painter increases the literal size of an opposing ship, as far as the server is concerned.


Does it now? Blink

Can you prove the increase in said sphere radius by collision detection?

Target painted Machariels are a Go!

You mean target painted MWDing Machariels are a go P.


Question still stands - does it or does it not increase the physical collision sphere around the ship? vOv

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-04-12 18:03:56 UTC
Noctaly wrote:
Thanks for the tips :D

I mainly want to calculate the warp time needed per distance. I noticed that the ship speed is decrease at the end of the warp and I wondered how it would affect travel times :)
You can divide warp into 3 steps:

1) acceleration (to your top warp speed) - this is AFTER you've already entered warp

2) 'cruise' (when you're cruisin' thru space at your top warp speed)

3) deceleration


Now, I did the math some time ago, posted it in some thread. I'm sure it's correct, but I don't remember why atm :P.

Anyway, if 1 AU is 150 billion meters, d is total warp distance (in AU), k is your warp speed (in AU/s) and y is your ship's max speed:

j is your deceleration speed, it's k/3 (a third of your warp speed), with a maximum (cap) of 2

1) time = ln (1 AU) / k seconds; distance = 1 AU (exactly, always)

3) time = ln (1 AU x k / y) / j; distance = k/j (this is exactly 3 AU, unless k > 6)

2) distance = d - 1 AU - the above deceleration distance (3 AU, unless k > 6); time = distance / k


For warps shorter than 4 AU, the formulas are different and I couldn't be arsed to calculate them :P

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