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Learning skills: should they come back?

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Dominique Vasilkovsky
#41 - 2015-04-09 09:54:41 UTC
Awesome troll post OP, 8/10 for everyone taking the bait.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#42 - 2015-04-09 09:57:19 UTC
What would be really awesome is if we bring back the learning skills, and then institute a whole new set of learning skills that help us to learn the original learning skills faster! Then new characters could wait even longer before training an actual useful skill.

Yeah, let's do that!

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2015-04-09 10:12:36 UTC
ISK and SP are the only two haviest drugs which are moving this game further. All newbies are in blind desire of millions of isk and millions of skill points. That's why they want it asap. Learning skills were kind of tidi factor fore most of the new arrivals (alts not contented) cause you had some free time untill you could move further with next level of learning.
So people spent sometime on learning the abc's about game, environment and content. That was good. No we have those training going way faster especially for focused alts when uou could simply inject +4 imps and add cerebral accelerators. That's why we have SB profession easily achievable nowadays or either fw alts seeded by masses. There are many other examples.
But bringing those back has no point now cause we all accepted those changes and i couldn't say that current system is bad.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2015-04-09 10:33:16 UTC
How stupid.


Learning Skills that allow us to Learn Skills...
Sophia Skinner
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2015-04-09 12:35:42 UTC
On top of a big "hell no!" for this idea, I'd like to recommend they remove fitting skills to cut down even more time wasted on "need to train" skills that everyone trains to 5 anyway, so newbros can get right to training what they want to train.
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#46 - 2015-04-09 12:37:17 UTC
While the removal of learning skills hasn't cost us anything (in fact we gained a point IIRC) and it has certainly done what was intended in removing the need for new players to choose between learning learning skills and playing the game...

I have noted that many of the comments in favour since their disappearance have flet something like this:

Ima Wreckyou wrote:
I am glad they are gone, which actually allowed me to create this char without much of a headache.


ie: existing players building alts more quickly...
Malcanis' Law again...

I wonder if perhaps, before the removal, the time spent training Learning skills (and therefore having poor skills in all other regards) gave new players an excuse while they learned to play the game. Presuming that the new players were out playing the game while the alts were mostly station spinning the training time would only be wasted for the older players...

Of course the primary reason Learning Skills were a problem was that they were perceived as a problem - I wonder how many new players ever actually worried about them without being told to (I stuck learning skills in here and there for most of my first six months (I guess)) and how much of an issue they would have been had the skill queue existed (Learning skills were one of my early "about to log, need a longer skill" skills).
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#47 - 2015-04-09 12:49:28 UTC
yeah bring them back, because even with out them to many people complain and whine about how they cant max the game out in a monthRoll

the idea of skills is one of the only reason im still going at over 165m sp and 403 skills

that and the vast majority of "carebear" activities I can do with the heavy weight against pvp.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
Arla Sarain
#48 - 2015-04-09 12:52:21 UTC
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Yes. They should also add an undocking skill, a turn left skill, a turn right skill, a skill that allows you to loot wrecks, a skill that increases the number of entries on your overview starting from a total of 1, and a skill to resize the client window.

No skill to log in?
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2015-04-09 13:07:08 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
HiltoftheDragons wrote:
I had all the learning skils to 5 but i worked on them between core skills. I dont miss them one bit.


back before skill queues they were kinda nice to have something that took a few days to train that you could train when you were going to be gone for a day or two, I guess learning skills had at least that going for them Roll


So did Battleship V and that's a hell of a lot more fun when you're done with it.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2015-04-09 13:07:56 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Yes. They should also add an undocking skill, a turn left skill, a turn right skill, a skill that allows you to loot wrecks, a skill that increases the number of entries on your overview starting from a total of 1, and a skill to resize the client window.

No skill to log in?


That might be self defeating.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
2Sonas1Cup
#51 - 2015-04-09 13:16:15 UTC
Replace attributes implants with learning skills.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#52 - 2015-04-09 14:06:12 UTC
2Sonas1Cup wrote:
Replace attributes implants with learning skills.
No.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#53 - 2015-04-09 14:16:30 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
2Sonas1Cup wrote:
Replace attributes implants with learning skills.
No.

Replace learning attributes with skill implants?
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2015-04-09 15:28:11 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
While the removal of learning skills hasn't cost us anything (in fact we gained a point IIRC) and it has certainly done what was intended in removing the need for new players to choose between learning learning skills and playing the game...

[…]

ie: existing players building alts more quickly...
Malcanis' Law again...

Not really. If anything, it's quite the opposite: at the time, people were trying to claim that keeping the skills would be good for new players (when the ones they benefitted the most were old players)… somehow.

Older and richer player did gain any kind of overwhelming advantage from the removal of the skills — they just got the same benefit as anyone else. That alone rather disqualifies the Law from applying. For once, new players were actually among those who benefitted the most. People creating alts were never particularly bothered with the 3-month startup time or the three-year ROI timeframe, since they could just keep playing on their existing characters, whereas new players had to play with the stunted builds that the Learning Skills created. With the skills removed, the old players got rid of something that didn't bother them to begin with, and new players no longer had to suffer being stunted.

Quote:
I wonder if perhaps, before the removal, the time spent training Learning skills (and therefore having poor skills in all other regards) gave new players an excuse while they learned to play the game. Presuming that the new players were out playing the game while the alts were mostly station spinning the training time would only be wasted for the older players.
No. Because that's not what happened, nor would it had worked as an excuse even if it did. What happened was that new players either had to fly with subpar skills, even months after having started, and be frustrated or they had to not fly at all for months and be frustrated. Either way, they didn't really learn to play the game — they only learned to meticulously plan an idiotic meta-game called EVEMon. That, or they just left outright because they couldn't help noticing what a braindead idea it was.

Quote:
Of course the primary reason Learning Skills were a problem was that they were perceived as a problem
No. They were a problem because they made the NPE awful in every way. They were a pointless meta-mechanic with no impact whatsoever on actual gameplay (which is why they didn't help with learning in any way), and thus had no reason whatsoever to even exist. They served no sane or sensible purpose — they were just a morton's fork where the player picked between being delayed in a big lump or in lots of small lumps. That is pretty much the very definition of a hugely problematic game mechanic: something that makes no difference on the gameplay, and only affects the person outside of the game. They were removed because they had no place in the game and because the game was instantly made vastly better for everyone the second they were gone.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#55 - 2015-04-09 15:59:06 UTC
Jacob Holland wrote:
While the removal of learning skills hasn't cost us anything (in fact we gained a point IIRC)
I actually train slower, as the overall highest SP/h was slightly reduced. But the change and it's benefits far outweighed that reduction.

So it was a good change and it actually helped new players.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#56 - 2015-04-09 18:39:52 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Jacob Holland wrote:
While the removal of learning skills hasn't cost us anything (in fact we gained a point IIRC)
I actually train slower, as the overall highest SP/h was slightly reduced. But the change and it's benefits far outweighed that reduction.

So it was a good change and it actually helped new players.


I well remember the rage from many of the forum regulars (some whom have posted in this very thread) because they might possibly lose a few days a year in skill training from CCP dumping training skills.

I may just go dig up some of the exceptionally funny quotes if I get bored enough today and post them for our enjoyment.

Mr Epeen Cool
CompleteFailure
DAWGS Corp.
#57 - 2015-04-09 20:16:12 UTC
Absolutely no point. When they removed the learning skills from the game, they also adjusted training times so that every player trained every skill at the same rate they would have if they had the learning skills all trained to 5. We definitely got the better deal when they were removed.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#58 - 2015-04-09 20:22:21 UTC
CompleteFailure wrote:
Absolutely no point. When they removed the learning skills from the game, they also adjusted training times so that every player trained every skill at the same rate they would have if they had the learning skills all trained to 5. We definitely got the better deal when they were removed.

I just have to....

YOU ARE A COMPLETEFAILURE!!!


Sheesh... now I feel better! *snickers xD
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#59 - 2015-04-09 21:26:14 UTC
Bubonic Plague: time to bring it back?


Discuss . . . .

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2015-04-10 00:03:21 UTC
At some point i thought they could be returned back to the game as collectable items but without any kind of usage.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP