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Thoughts on off grid boosting, the counter.

First post
Author
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#1 - 2015-04-04 23:17:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
I had a recent thought regarding off grid boosting and how it functions. Now instead of coming up with ideas on how to fix the technology of it, I would like to propose a different option.

Leave it.

Leave off grid boosting exactly how it is and how it works.

Permit battle cruisers (t1 and command ships) to negate it.

We have the basis for bubbles. Why not expand it.

Permit battlecruisers tousle that utility slot of theirs to project a anti grid sphere. Make it big (like 100 km wide) negates all boosting effects that aren't within that sphere of influence. Similar to how HIC's can shutdown warp drives.

If you want to be creative, allow every booster module to be able to script itself. Sphere negation script. Everything that is inside the sphere loses any off grid effects. At the same time, the booster ongrid will provide its boosts to the fleet.

So instead of nerfing offgrid boosts, give the players the ability to negate the effects through a fleet comp.

Spitballing an idea while watching the final four.

Thoughts?

Yaay!!!!

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-04-04 23:20:47 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
I had a recent thought regarding off grid boosting and how it functions. Now instead of coming up with ideas on how to fix the technology of it, I would like to propose a different option.

Leave it.

Leave off grid boosting exactly how it is and how it works.

Permit battle cruisers (t1 and command ships) to negate it.

We have the basis for bubbles. Why not expand it.

Permit battlecruisers tousle that utility slot of theirs to project a anti grid sphere. Make it big (like 100 km wide) negates all boosting effects that aren't within that sphere of influence. Similar to how HIC's can shutdown warp drives.

If you want to be creative, allow every booster module to be able to script itself. Sphere negation script. Everything that is inside the sphere loses any off grid effects. At the same time, the booster ongrid will provide its boosts to the fleet.

So instead of nerfing ongrid boosts, give the players the ability to negate the effects through a fleet comp.

Spitballing an idea while watching the final four.

Thoughts?



Why should the counter need to be on grid while the primary effect does not?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2015-04-04 23:21:20 UTC
Server load.

Now you have to check range from every single ship in every fleet on field to every single T1 battlecruiser on field, every second.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#4 - 2015-04-04 23:24:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
I had a recent thought regarding off grid boosting and how it functions. Now instead of coming up with ideas on how to fix the technology of it, I would like to propose a different option.

Leave it.

Leave off grid boosting exactly how it is and how it works.

Permit battle cruisers (t1 and command ships) to negate it.

We have the basis for bubbles. Why not expand it.

Permit battlecruisers tousle that utility slot of theirs to project a anti grid sphere. Make it big (like 100 km wide) negates all boosting effects that aren't within that sphere of influence. Similar to how HIC's can shutdown warp drives.

If you want to be creative, allow every booster module to be able to script itself. Sphere negation script. Everything that is inside the sphere loses any off grid effects. At the same time, the booster ongrid will provide its boosts to the fleet.

So instead of nerfing ongrid boosts, give the players the ability to negate the effects through a fleet comp.

Spitballing an idea while watching the final four.

Thoughts?



Why should the counter need to be on grid while the primary effect does not?


I'm assuming CCP can't limit the boosting effect because of how it functions. They could limit the effect based On a center point created by a separate module activated by the player though.

Also the players should be able to stop something they don't like. So if there is 4 boosters on a undock and a guy running around with every boost available, a group should have the ability to negate the effect by putting their ship at risk.

It ain't fair, but it gives a offensive person a way to handle something like that.

Yaay!!!!

Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#5 - 2015-04-04 23:26:41 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Server load.

Now you have to check range from every single ship in every fleet on field to every single T1 battlecruiser on field, every second.


that can be tested. I wouldn't discount it based on load. We took maybe 70 HIC's into null last week with some comical effects when we all turned on the bubbles.

I don't see that as a specific issue.

Yaay!!!!

Arla Sarain
#6 - 2015-04-05 00:04:46 UTC
Make it a targeted ability/module.

Battlecruisers are now needed in high numbers, with fit focusing on targeting count. Auto-targetting units become desirable.
Anhenka
The New Federation
Sigma Grindset
#7 - 2015-04-05 00:31:26 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Server load.

Now you have to check range from every single ship in every fleet on field to every single T1 battlecruiser on field, every second.


that can be tested. I wouldn't discount it based on load. We took maybe 70 HIC's into null last week with some comical effects when we all turned on the bubbles.

I don't see that as a specific issue.


HIC's and other bubbles are not an issue, because the check to see if you are in a bubble only occurs when you actually try and warp.

Very different from a proposed system where distance checks have to be performed every second for ever ship.
Zavand Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-04-05 01:39:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Zavand Crendraven
Phoenix Jones wrote:

I'm assuming CCP can't limit the boosting effect because of how it functions. They could limit the effect based On a center point created by a separate module activated by the player though.


How wouldnt CCP be able to tell if a specified ship (read the link ship) is on grid or in an AoE but will be able to tell if another specified ship (read proposed link canceller) in on grid or an AoE?
El Geo
Warcrows
Sedition.
#9 - 2015-04-06 07:09:41 UTC
There are already effective counters to off grid boosting, such as the following.

Arrow Put pressure onto the opposing gang to use their links and use combat probes to find and kill the offending ogb.

Arrow Use your own links.

Arrow Don't engage.

Arrow Stop being bad.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#10 - 2015-04-06 07:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
The concept was to have Command Ships and BCs (LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO) fit 2-3 of these modules in utility highs and be a heroic on-grid... Command ship. Big smile

A very long time ago something, something, somewhere went horribly wrong and now you have cancer. A considerable portion of second accounts are used for OGB, so GOOD LUCK trying to use common sense against cold, hard, currency which is generated here. Big smile
The Pink Unicorn
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-04-06 08:28:56 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Server load.

Now you have to check range from every single ship in every fleet on field to every single T1 battlecruiser on field, every second.



perhaps this could be a deploy-able item instead?
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#12 - 2015-04-06 08:38:28 UTC
The Pink Unicorn wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Server load.

Now you have to check range from every single ship in every fleet on field to every single T1 battlecruiser on field, every second.



perhaps this could be a deploy-able item instead?

It would still need to do the server melting distance checks, or have a system wide effect.

I like the second one much better. An entosis link requiring deploy-able which scrambles all fleet boosts in the system, skill related or link related. Titan boosts are the only thing immune, as come on, we need some reason to keep building giant space penii.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#13 - 2015-04-06 11:09:26 UTC
+1
I think this is a very creative idea, but rather than making it a bubble, simply make it a grid effect. All ships within the same grid as the battlecuriser equiped with such an active mod would not be able to receive off-grid links, but would still receive on-grid links.

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project

Reina Xyaer
Tha Lench Mob
#14 - 2015-04-06 12:19:36 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Server load.

Now you have to check range from every single ship in every fleet on field to every single T1 battlecruiser on field, every second.


You know, like it's already doing if you're on grid with each other?

Danika I'm pretty sure you're just completely full of sh*t. I'm not supporting this idea at all... but this post by you is nonsense...

If there's 50 people on grid, the server is checking the range of everyone to everyone else, every tick.
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#15 - 2015-04-06 13:44:50 UTC
El Geo wrote:
There are already effective counters to off grid boosting, such as the following.

Arrow Put pressure onto the opposing gang to use their links and use combat probes to find and kill the offending ogb.

Arrow Use your own links.

Arrow Don't engage.

Arrow Stop being bad.


Sending out combat probers to catch combat boosters isn't a solution. Considering good chunks of them can simply sit on a undock or hugging a shield.

Counters to a bad system isn't to bring the same thing. Any strategy is lost. There should be a way to either bring the booster on grid or negate their boosting effects of combatant within the same grid of your booster (you risk it, if they don't like it, they can either go risk their booster by bringing it ongrid or go without it).

Pretty pointless to play of the answer to every situation is (bring this max ship for the fleet or just don't bother coming at all). The reverse should apply.

And none of this implies being good or bad, it's a flawed mechanic that can't be countered by the player base.

Yaay!!!!

Lugh Crow-Slave
#16 - 2015-04-06 13:49:04 UTC
lol forcing boosts on grid will reportedly light the hamsters ablaze


now you want the sever to check weather or not it is allowed?
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#17 - 2015-04-06 14:02:09 UTC
this wont be abusedRoll

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#18 - 2015-04-06 14:27:28 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
The concept was to have Command Ships and BCs (LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO) fit 2-3 of these modules in utility highs and be a heroic on-grid... Command ship. Big smile

A very long time ago something, something, somewhere went horribly wrong and now you have cancer. A considerable portion of second accounts are used for OGB, so GOOD LUCK trying to use common sense against cold, hard, currency which is generated here. Big smile


This man knows the truth.

CCP is far more interested in cash generated from link alts than balance.

Of that we can be certain.
El Geo
Warcrows
Sedition.
#19 - 2015-04-06 15:15:18 UTC  |  Edited by: El Geo
Phoenix Jones wrote:


Sending out combat probers to catch combat boosters isn't a solution. Considering good chunks of them can simply sit on a undock or hugging a shield.

Counters to a bad system isn't to bring the same thing. Any strategy is lost. There should be a way to either bring the booster on grid or negate their boosting effects of combatant within the same grid of your booster (you risk it, if they don't like it, they can either go risk their booster by bringing it ongrid or go without it).

Pretty pointless to play of the answer to every situation is (bring this max ship for the fleet or just don't bother coming at all). The reverse should apply.

And none of this implies being good or bad, it's a flawed mechanic that can't be countered by the player base.



Bringing links on grid only ensures larger gangs safety, most off grid boosts are for people who can seemingly 'solo' entire fleets of people who then complain on the forum about how off grid links are broken, the problem is they are too lazy to learn how to counter effectively.

Seperating players from their links by either putting combat probes out (they can either remain cloaked or take the risk), leaving system for a 'pull', camping the undock/gate or using your own links are all viable tactics, these are things small gang and solo players understand and dullsov blobbers don't, so yes, if people can not see the logical and even obvious answers they make themselves look bad.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#20 - 2015-04-06 15:47:25 UTC
Just stop being bad... I routinely run on-grid boosts from my Claymore on one character, while using another character to scare the opposing gang's booster into leaving or hiding. Nothing is stopping people from doing combat probing and killing off-grid boosters. If the OGB is at a Death Star POS, just fight in another system if you cannot handle their boosted gang.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

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