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Getting people out of NPC corporations

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Mag's
Azn Empire
#321 - 2015-04-03 14:14:13 UTC
Joia Crenca wrote:
This is still a 'make everyone play the way I want them to play' thread?
Yes, basically. Eve is a sandbox, but the OP wants to determine the size of that box and what we should do in it.

Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
The suggestion is to try help CCP get more in line with the orginal vision / core of EVE.
As your idea wasn't ever a part of that and does no such thing, I will flat out call you a liar.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#322 - 2015-04-03 16:39:20 UTC
Ooph.
I know not all corps are like this, and it's gratifying to see a lot of negativity directed at EE for it, but this is a prime example of the sort of stuff many of us who have our main character in an NPC corp want to avoid.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/30s0qb/join_easily_excited_2day/
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#323 - 2015-04-03 16:43:06 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:
Ooph. I know not all corps are like this, and it's gratifying to see a lot of negativity directed at EE for it, but this is a prime example of the sort of stuff many of us who have our main character in an NPC corp want to avoid.

This is typical of more than a handful of corporations. Most hold killboards sacred.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#324 - 2015-04-04 23:05:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Donnachadh wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
The suggestion is to try help CCP get more in line with the orginal vision / core of EVE.

To survive in a highly competitive would of online gaming companies MUST be willing to adapt and adjust to what ALL of their players want and to what the "competition" is doing. To try and stay 100% true to a thought from more than a decade ago is to go down a path of utter futility. The original vision of EvE is and always should be a guide, or an anchor of sorts if you will but it should not and cannot be THE thing that determines where this game goes and how it morphs to meet the ever changing needs of it's players and the competition for our gaming time and money.
EVE has been steady because it doesn't cleave to the methods of other games. That it is a niche and not a WoW clone is why it has a solid subscriber base.

The more it stands out for that the better it will do.

(I am not saying turf them out of the NPC Corps (as more than a joke) without fixing some other things.
The key is to make it challenging on both sides, for those running an industrial through red space and those hunting it down. Not serve up a bunch of victims or they will refuse to go into the kitchen.)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#325 - 2015-04-05 01:46:12 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
I think the term you're looking for here is "risk averse". Most high-sec players realize that low-sec is rigged, and that the only content to be found there are the tears most low-sec players are after.

Arthur please forgive a multiple pages late post and I hope you read this.
This statement has bothered me since I read it shortly after you posted it. I think "risk averse" is the wrong term to use not only here but in many other situations, so lets look at this a little more in depth.

My son has spent most of the last 7 plus years in this game playing in low/nul and he is hardcore PvP and even he will not warp into or un-dock into a situation that he knows is stacked against him, most around here call that being smart. When we apply this same situation to a high sec player who will not un-dock during a war dec all of a sudden they become "risk averse" carebears why is that?

I will agree there are many in high sec who justly deserve to be called "risk averse", but to apply the term to someone who refuses to un-dock when they know they will quickly become kill board fodder is harsh and unfair.

To me the risk averse are the ones that dock up the moment an entry shows up in local chat that is yellow or red even though that player does not even show up on overview.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#326 - 2015-04-05 01:54:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Donnachadh wrote:
When we apply this same situation to a high sec player who will not un-dock during a war dec all of a sudden they become "risk averse" carebears why is that?.
It is not limited to High Sec. I have seen 10/40 - 15/80 fighting invaders in Null Sec.
People docking up and waiting until the enemy are gone. A few easy kills given to the enemy with no resistance. The risk adverse silently refusing to train a combat ship or make a frigate / destroyer alt to help the others. A week of training and a 1-2M ISK ship is just too much to expect, it would seem.
It doesn't matter that if the reds were consistently killed they would not come back and the resulting blue systems would be more profitable.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Arctic Estidal
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#327 - 2015-04-05 13:55:37 UTC
The war dec mechanics are the sole issue and are completely broken.

CCP needs to fix war decs. It is a signficant exploit for trolling and farming kills. It is completely one sided and needs to be fixed.

That is why I have alts in NPC corps, there is just no benefit to putting them in a corp that can be war dec'd.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#328 - 2015-04-05 14:31:09 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
The risk adverse silently refusing to train a combat ship or make a frigate / destroyer alt to help the others. A week of training and a 1-2M ISK ship is just too much to expect, it would seem.

It just keeps coming back to his with you.
EVERYONE should be required o fight in PvP engagements.

Involvement in any form of PvP (shooting other players ships) i nows, always has been and if CCP is smart it always will be a CHOICE we are all free to make so adjust to it and move on.

I keep asking and none of you elite high sec war dec PvP (shooting other players ships ) players have even tried to answer.
When / if CCP ever gets rid of the PvE (not shooting other player ships) players who are you going to pick on?
When / if CCP removes all PvE content are you so risk averse that you will quit instead of facing others who want to blow you apart?

And ultimately I have to wonder where all the hate comes from. PvE players are using perfectly valid and legal game mechanics to play in this sandbox the way they want to. In many cases (see list below) they are using the exact same mechanics that the PvP( shoot others players ships) players do. You know things like
Staying docked when the odds are not in your favor.
Staying docked when you face a ship / fit that you have no chance against.
Staying docked when you face a player whose skill is far greater than your own.
Jumping corp for whatever.
Playing on alts so you can avoid the war dec that you filed.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#329 - 2015-04-05 15:47:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Donnachadh wrote:
Staying docked when the odds are not in your favor.
My Null Sec example is where the odds are in their favour.
Donnachadh wrote:
Staying docked when you face a ship / fit that you have no chance against.
Home advantage means you can adjust and swop ships or change fleet composition.
Donnachadh wrote:
Staying docked when you face a player whose skill is far greater than your own.
Your skill does not improve if you stay docked.
Arctic Estidal wrote:
The war dec mechanics are the sole issue and are completely broken.
CCP needs to fix war decs. It is a signficant exploit for trolling and farming kills. It is completely one sided and needs to be fixed.
Agreed.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#330 - 2015-07-03 01:34:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
I think this thread is fraught with all kinds of good ideas, even if they conflict at times.

Overall we can all agree one this: there is an observable tendency for a lot of new players to reach a point where they can get into PVP early on and enjoy this game which is PVP oriented, or get past that point and fall into a rut of grind and asset accumulation and become risk averse. The latter will leave out of boredom sooner than the former will leave out of simply outgrowing the game.


This is why I feel that if NPC corporations periodically wardecced each other from time to time, this could jog a lot of players out of their grinds and ruts. There are starter corporations, which for the most part are faction corporations (Federal Navy and State Protectorate for example) and there are those NPC corps that players get shunted into when they drop their membership in player corps.

Strife between the NPC starter corporations would be one good way to introduce new players to a kind of low level faction warfare, like an "FW Lite" so to speak. Get them shooting at each other early on and for a "good reason" (us and them which is the core of any group PVP) and I think they will have a good time and no hard feelings.

As for the NPC corps for older players who end up in them, I would make it an angle regarding storyline. Why would these NPC run corps, which have CEOs and boards, not fight each other from time to time? It can become part of the eve storyline, maybe even NPC CEOs having feuds of sorts. I would not make these never-ending wars or add complications. There are a lot of players who end up in NPC corps and the context of NPC wars is such that it's less toxic than being decced in a player corp by a bunch of bittervets. If players get more PVP in this context they are more apt to handle PVP and general warfare with other players as well. I think a good time will be had by all.

I've said as much in that thread. I hope CCP considers it.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!