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Less Drones
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Mario Putzo
#21 - 2015-04-03 17:56:06 UTC
2012 Add drones to all the things
2013 Make Drones a real weapons system
2014 Tweak said weapons system mechanics
2015....abandon drones.

Seems about par for the course for CCP I reckon this change will go through.
Reina Xyaer
Tha Lench Mob
#22 - 2015-04-03 17:57:32 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
If you remove drones, you are going to do many undesirable things.

Push the frig/t3d meta even more than it is now. Mainly because drones help to get tackle off larger ships, or supplement a weaker primary weapon system (looking at you medium acs). Frigs become even more powerful at holding larger ships.. and im tired of the frig meta, we need more reasons to fly bigger ships, not less.

Make gallente even more OP, since not only do they have their primary weapon bonus, but get drones added to it. I dont want to see more vexor/ishtar/VNI.

Drone/frig meta needs to be toned down, not buffed, which is what your proposal will do.



I already said primary weapons would need buffed to make up for it.

Yes this would nerf damage application to frigs for a lot of ships. There's ways to make up for this. Web bonuses, tracking bonuses/buffs...

Ships that kept their drones being OP would be a concern, things could be changed/nerfed to mitigate this.
Reina Xyaer
Tha Lench Mob
#23 - 2015-04-03 17:58:47 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
If you want to reform drones, you can start with eliminating drone assist. The next step would be to limit light drones to frigates, medium drones to destroyers and cruisers, heavy drones to battlecruisers and battleships and sentry drones to battleships. The same applies to the varying sizes of utility and logistics drones.


Something I'd like to see, in fact much more than this thread's proposal.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#24 - 2015-04-03 18:09:20 UTC
Reina Xyaer wrote:
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
If you remove drones, you are going to do many undesirable things.

Push the frig/t3d meta even more than it is now. Mainly because drones help to get tackle off larger ships, or supplement a weaker primary weapon system (looking at you medium acs). Frigs become even more powerful at holding larger ships.. and im tired of the frig meta, we need more reasons to fly bigger ships, not less.

Make gallente even more OP, since not only do they have their primary weapon bonus, but get drones added to it. I dont want to see more vexor/ishtar/VNI.

Drone/frig meta needs to be toned down, not buffed, which is what your proposal will do.



I already said primary weapons would need buffed to make up for it.

Yes this would nerf damage application to frigs for a lot of ships. There's ways to make up for this. Web bonuses, tracking bonuses/buffs...

Ships that kept their drones being OP would be a concern, things could be changed/nerfed to mitigate this.


Do you understand turret tracking formula?

BS sized turrets have a siig radius of 400m. A frigate has signature of 30-50 and MAYBE 100-200 with MWD sig bloom. You can add all the damage or RoF bonuses you want, but you arent going to hit a close orbiting frigate, even with 1-2 webs. Dog save you if that frig pilot has the foresight to fit an afterburner. A maelstrom could be solod by a rifter without its drone bay.

Also, they just rebalanced most of the ships now after a few years. You want them to start over from the beginning just to remove drones on NON-BONUSED ships?

The only drone boats i have problems with are the ones BONUSED for them. Those are the ones causing lag and TIDI as theyre blobbed up in fleets. Not a solo stabber or incursus.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#25 - 2015-04-03 18:16:46 UTC
Okay let me drag myself down to the level of this post...

Hand me that scuba mask over there? I am about to go deep into this BS...

"but i like drones, who are you to tell me i cannot use them? Why cant i use my maxxed drone skills on the ships i enjoy flying anymore?"

*rushes up for air and a clean shirt...*
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#26 - 2015-04-03 18:29:16 UTC
less drones is a good thing, removing dronebays off non droneboats won't happen, for example how could a raven kill frigs in pve or pvp without a set of lights?
That being said reducing the bandwidths and bay sizes on 75% of ships would make sense.

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Juan Mileghere
The Corporate Raiders
#27 - 2015-04-03 18:38:06 UTC
Reina Xyaer wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Prophecy is a drone boat....



Oh, didn't know that. I assumed it was a laser turret boat. Ignore that one then.


You'll notice I didn't mention many recons, or ships that are neuting boats, etc. Many of these need drone bays to have some damage.

A person who doesn't understand how ships works is a genius for rebalancing them, don't you all realize his genius?

I propose that shitposters get a shitpost right, it works like a kill right, but everyone is system is alerted, they get a 5 minute weapon timer, can't cloak, they become a nice brown on the overview, and is free to boot and only removed when that user's thread is locked or the OP deletes the first post

See that idea

That's like your idea, its like nuking a city to punish a shoplifter

Blobbing Explained
Reina Xyaer
Tha Lench Mob
#28 - 2015-04-03 18:50:21 UTC
Juan Mileghere wrote:
Reina Xyaer wrote:
Ncc 1709 wrote:
Prophecy is a drone boat....



Oh, didn't know that. I assumed it was a laser turret boat. Ignore that one then.


You'll notice I didn't mention many recons, or ships that are neuting boats, etc. Many of these need drone bays to have some damage.

A person who doesn't understand how ships works is a genius for rebalancing them, don't you all realize his genius?

I propose that shitposters get a shitpost right, it works like a kill right, but everyone is system is alerted, they get a 5 minute weapon timer, can't cloak, they become a nice brown on the overview, and is free to boot and only removed when that user's thread is locked or the OP deletes the first post

See that idea

That's like your idea, its like nuking a city to punish a shoplifter


Because I don't know all the done boats... therefore I don't know how ships work. Okay.

So, if we try to translate your sarcasm and dickery... you believe the amount of ships with drone bays is fine? Okay great.

Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2015-04-03 19:07:18 UTC
Are you stupid? How are people in battleships supposed to kill frigates that get under its guns? This would utterly and completely destroy PVE content.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#30 - 2015-04-03 19:26:35 UTC
Sentries arent THIS big of a problem... Hell bring bombers or some dudes with smartbombs if its that big of a deal...
Reina Xyaer
Tha Lench Mob
#31 - 2015-04-03 20:14:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Reina Xyaer
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Are you stupid? How are people in battleships supposed to kill frigates that get under its guns? This would utterly and completely destroy PVE content.


Nope, not stupid. I was fully aware of this issue when I posted. It's something that would need addressed.

I don't have a suggestion yet as to how that would be addressed, but I would just like to point out...

On the forums you'll get threads where someone suggests adding/changing something for Battleships to make them more able to fight smaller targets, like frigates. Someone might suggest something like a second rack of high slots for a whole secondary rack of undersized weapons....

Or my own suggestion, to change warp core strengths to make bigger ships inherently better than smaller ships in one simple, but meaningful way....

And you often get responses along the lines of:
Quote:

Battleships are not meant to be able to hit/fight small ships

Quote:
Battleships are meant to have small support, so no they shouldn't be able to fight off small fast ships
...........

And then on this thread, which significantly nerfs larger ship's ability to fight off small targets...

and you get responses like this...
Quote:

Are you stupid? How are people in battleships supposed to kill frigates that get under its guns? This would utterly and completely destroy PVE content.


Just sayin'
bunzing heet
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-04-03 20:49:42 UTC  |  Edited by: bunzing heet
Fact is drones are doing great these days removing drone bays and replacing them with web bonuses tracking etc etc won't help
A lot of people still rely on ecm drones and other utility drones
I do realize you probably know all these things I was just wondering how you wud suggest making up for the drone bay loss for all those ships will you give all bss web bonusses because that's very op
op maybe you have a better idea I'm not trying to troll I'm just wondering nothing sarcastic or anything
Because lag isn't a really big deal unless you always fly in big systems with loads of activity

Fly safe keep killing And remember I'm watching you !!!!
Eris Mangetsu
Shadows of Stars Burnt Out
#33 - 2015-04-03 21:41:36 UTC
I don't really think removing drone bays would be that good of an idea. But what I would like to see is drones being more widely used and not just a primarily gallente thing. Give the other factions more options for drone ships and maybe rework drone ship bonuses to be more like synergy bonuses for using the type of drone that matches the ship. I feel this would make for a substantial change to drone play while at the same time taking some of the all powerful drone ships that exist now (aka: Ishtar) and making them more vulnerable. Kinda like yes Ishtar is nice but would people be all for the Ishtar if it's bonus to sentry drones only really worked with Gardes which have the shortest range.
Arla Sarain
#34 - 2015-04-03 22:05:02 UTC
To be more specific, in contrast to the mindless bashing of forum trolls and hormone raging forum knights,

large ships should retain their drone drone bays - having light drones to protect them from frigates in whatever limited capacity they can is a valid reason to keep them.

The odd 1-2 drones help add a limit to "minimum damage dealt". The blaster incursus for example, without the drone starts dealing very poor DPS very soon, and its not the fastest ship and is prone to getting scram kited. The drone helps limit how little damage it does.

Doubt the odd amount of drones you remove will reduce lag. The lag comes from the dedicated drone fleets, not ships that have a few drones.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2015-04-03 22:33:06 UTC
PLEASE DON'T KILL GALLENTE MINIONS!

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Iain Cariaba
#36 - 2015-04-03 22:37:32 UTC
1. Load an overview bracket setting that has drone brackets turned off.
2. Uncheck the box in graphic settings that says "Drone Models."
3. Enjoy an EvE free of horribad lag caused by drones.

OP's idea to remove drones from almost everything is unnecessary.
Tusker Crazinski
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2015-04-04 14:53:02 UTC
Okay, were we going to over buff smartbombs to absurdity to compensate?

I actually really like the idea of that one.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#38 - 2015-04-04 19:46:15 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Don't touch the drone bays. Instead remove drone bonuses from drone boats and rebalance those ships to use guns and missiles. Buff EWAR drones.

Drones were intended to be supplementary weaponry. Somewhere along the way CCP went full ******. Ships with larger drone bays should get more secondary DPS or extra EWAR, not a dedicated weapon platform.

Applies to subcaps only.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2015-04-04 22:09:29 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Don't touch the drone bays. Instead remove drone bonuses from drone boats and rebalance those ships to use guns and missiles. Buff EWAR drones.

Drones were intended to be supplementary weaponry. Somewhere along the way CCP went full ******. Ships with larger drone bays should get more secondary DPS or extra EWAR, not a dedicated weapon platform.

Applies to subcaps only.


How dare you to suggest such a thing?!

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#40 - 2015-04-04 23:10:21 UTC
dumb out of 10

This would be horrendous.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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