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Skill Points remapping/buying™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
#241 - 2015-04-01 18:45:34 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
If something like this ever existed it would need a gigantic penalty that prevented abuse. For instance you do a full SP remap, you permanently lose 20% of your SP. So if you remap a 10m SP character it becomes a 8m SP char. If you do it again, it's a 6.4m character.

New players could essentially do it inconsequentially, but min maxers could probably only do it once or twice before throwing away too many months or years of training.


And why exactly would there be a need for penaltys if its equal to all? Skillpoints are already trained, and time waited, aint that penalty enough?
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#242 - 2015-04-01 18:48:15 UTC
Wulfy Johnson wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
If something like this ever existed it would need a gigantic penalty that prevented abuse. For instance you do a full SP remap, you permanently lose 20% of your SP. So if you remap a 10m SP character it becomes a 8m SP char. If you do it again, it's a 6.4m character.

New players could essentially do it inconsequentially, but min maxers could probably only do it once or twice before throwing away too many months or years of training.


And why exactly would there be a need for penaltys if its equal to all? Skillpoints are already trained, and time waited, aint that penalty enough?


Not sure I understand what you mean. What is the penalty?

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#243 - 2015-04-01 20:05:07 UTC
I just wish they would get rid of learning implants and trash the attribute system.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#244 - 2015-04-01 22:10:02 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
If something like this ever existed it would need a gigantic penalty that prevented abuse. For instance you do a full SP remap, you permanently lose 20% of your SP. So if you remap a 10m SP character it becomes a 8m SP char. If you do it again, it's a 6.4m character.

New players could essentially do it inconsequentially, but min maxers could probably only do it once or twice before throwing away too many months or years of training.


Wow Wow please don't judge that heavy.

Sound's more like punishment vs penalties. Loosing SP's due to remap? It's a vad joke mate. I have already paid for that when bought skill books and PLEX. It's my property now.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
#245 - 2015-04-02 01:11:25 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Wulfy Johnson wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
If something like this ever existed it would need a gigantic penalty that prevented abuse. For instance you do a full SP remap, you permanently lose 20% of your SP. So if you remap a 10m SP character it becomes a 8m SP char. If you do it again, it's a 6.4m character.

New players could essentially do it inconsequentially, but min maxers could probably only do it once or twice before throwing away too many months or years of training.


And why exactly would there be a need for penaltys if its equal to all? Skillpoints are already trained, and time waited, aint that penalty enough?


Not sure I understand what you mean. What is the penalty?


In your own words, "it would need a gigantic penalty".
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#246 - 2015-04-02 01:23:48 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
If something like this ever existed it would need a gigantic penalty that prevented abuse. For instance you do a full SP remap, you permanently lose 20% of your SP. So if you remap a 10m SP character it becomes a 8m SP char. If you do it again, it's a 6.4m character.

New players could essentially do it inconsequentially, but min maxers could probably only do it once or twice before throwing away too many months or years of training.


Wow Wow please don't judge that heavy.

Sound's more like punishment vs penalties. Loosing SP's due to remap? It's a vad joke mate. I have already paid for that when bought skill books and PLEX. It's my property now.


Not an attribute remap. A skill remap as the OP is asking about. i.e. let's say you're a heavily invested miner now with 50m sp and you want to become an OGB for some reason.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#247 - 2015-04-02 01:41:14 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
If something like this ever existed it would need a gigantic penalty that prevented abuse. For instance you do a full SP remap, you permanently lose 20% of your SP. So if you remap a 10m SP character it becomes a 8m SP char. If you do it again, it's a 6.4m character.

New players could essentially do it inconsequentially, but min maxers could probably only do it once or twice before throwing away too many months or years of training.


Wow Wow please don't judge that heavy.

Sound's more like punishment vs penalties. Loosing SP's due to remap? It's a vad joke mate. I have already paid for that when bought skill books and PLEX. It's my property now.


Not an attribute remap. A skill remap as the OP is asking about. i.e. let's say you're a heavily invested miner now with 50m sp and you want to become an OGB for some reason.


I was not talking about atributes. So why should i lose out of my 50m sp? Any solid reason?

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#248 - 2015-04-02 10:43:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Liafcipe9000
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
If something like this ever existed it would need a gigantic penalty that prevented abuse. For instance you do a full SP remap, you permanently lose 20% of your SP. So if you remap a 10m SP character it becomes a 8m SP char. If you do it again, it's a 6.4m character.

New players could essentially do it inconsequentially, but min maxers could probably only do it once or twice before throwing away too many months or years of training.


Wow Wow please don't judge that heavy.

Sound's more like punishment vs penalties. Loosing SP's due to remap? It's a vad joke mate. I have already paid for that when bought skill books and PLEX. It's my property now.


Not an attribute remap. A skill remap as the OP is asking about. i.e. let's say you're a heavily invested miner now with 50m sp and you want to become an OGB for some reason.

that is IMO around borderline reasonable, however it might not make any sense that you can unlearn everything you know and then learning something completely new and know about that new thing just as much as you knew about the old thing that you magically forgot.

knowledge just doesn't go away like that. would it make sense to you that you can un-learn skills like, let's say, all Missile skills and then learn industrial skills as if you trained them for as long instead? that would be almost like rewriting your history. it's not possible and doesn't make any sense.

I'm in favour of PLEX for attribute remap. that's about as much as I can accept in this regard.
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#249 - 2015-04-02 13:05:25 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
If something like this ever existed it would need a gigantic penalty that prevented abuse. For instance you do a full SP remap, you permanently lose 20% of your SP. So if you remap a 10m SP character it becomes a 8m SP char. If you do it again, it's a 6.4m character.

New players could essentially do it inconsequentially, but min maxers could probably only do it once or twice before throwing away too many months or years of training.


Wow Wow please don't judge that heavy.

Sound's more like punishment vs penalties. Loosing SP's due to remap? It's a vad joke mate. I have already paid for that when bought skill books and PLEX. It's my property now.


Not an attribute remap. A skill remap as the OP is asking about. i.e. let's say you're a heavily invested miner now with 50m sp and you want to become an OGB for some reason.


I was not talking about atributes. So why should i lose out of my 50m sp? Any solid reason?


There really is no reason, but there's no reason to let everyone reskill constantly either. It would absolutely break the game if implemented without limits or downsides.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#250 - 2015-04-02 13:34:03 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
If something like this ever existed it would need a gigantic penalty that prevented abuse. For instance you do a full SP remap, you permanently lose 20% of your SP. So if you remap a 10m SP character it becomes a 8m SP char. If you do it again, it's a 6.4m character.

New players could essentially do it inconsequentially, but min maxers could probably only do it once or twice before throwing away too many months or years of training.


Wow Wow please don't judge that heavy.

Sound's more like punishment vs penalties. Loosing SP's due to remap? It's a vad joke mate. I have already paid for that when bought skill books and PLEX. It's my property now.


Not an attribute remap. A skill remap as the OP is asking about. i.e. let's say you're a heavily invested miner now with 50m sp and you want to become an OGB for some reason.


I was not talking about atributes. So why should i lose out of my 50m sp? Any solid reason?


There really is no reason, but there's no reason to let everyone reskill constantly either. It would absolutely break the game if implemented without limits or downsides.


Please explain.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#251 - 2015-04-02 13:54:33 UTC
I have enough SP to fly an Ishtar. But I didn't train into one. Now imagine everyone with the SP to fly whatever the flavor of the month ship was just respecced into it every balance patch. Or you shoot a miner, he docks up and respecs into perfect T3 skills and kills you, then respecs back into mining directly after. It sounds likeimpulse chaos.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#252 - 2015-04-02 14:04:36 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I have enough SP to fly an Ishtar. But I didn't train into one. Now imagine everyone with the SP to fly whatever the flavor of the month ship was just respecced into it every balance patch.

Anything that encourages CCP to get their balancing right is a good thing, correct?

Chance Ravinne wrote:
Or you shoot a miner, he docks up and respecs into perfect T3 skills and kills you, then respecs back into mining directly after. It sounds like impulse chaos.
You shot a miner so obviously you want a fight. So the miner brought you one. Sounds like "working as intended" to me.

MDD
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#253 - 2015-04-02 14:06:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I have enough SP to fly an Ishtar. But I didn't train into one. Now imagine everyone with the SP to fly whatever the flavor of the month ship was just respecced into it every balance patch. Or you shoot a miner, he docks up and respecs into perfect T3 skills and kills you, then respecs back into mining directly after. It sounds likeimpulse chaos.

I think in fairness there would need to be some sort of SP penalty/loss.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
#254 - 2015-04-02 15:11:55 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I have enough SP to fly an Ishtar. But I didn't train into one. Now imagine everyone with the SP to fly whatever the flavor of the month ship was just respecced into it every balance patch. Or you shoot a miner, he docks up and respecs into perfect T3 skills and kills you, then respecs back into mining directly after. It sounds likeimpulse chaos.


Thats why you allow it once a year or two, and no it wont break the game..

Yes we will see more focused pilots for sale, and more exchange of usefull characters, but that aint bad eighter for the value of characters or the search for what you need from month to month on the basar.

But it will also let people be less frustrated from time to time.. This game has an extreme time investment to allow players to fly new things, and therefore it will help against player burnout during metachanges and balancepasses.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#255 - 2015-04-02 15:39:03 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
Buying skills points is a bad idea, and wll most likly cause another jita riot.

Actually i rethought and no, thsi idea is bad. Eve has consaquences, you decided your carrier path, you can;t just ditch said path and go another way. The game is flexable enough that you can train anything. And while training learn how to actually do the thing you want to do well. People tend to forget that in eve skill points don;t matter. Anyone who thinks they do is an idiot and should look at my kb for proof (hint i die alot and i'm an 11 year vet.) so no to skill remapping. and no buying skills

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#256 - 2015-04-02 19:13:02 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I have enough SP to fly an Ishtar. But I didn't train into one. Now imagine everyone with the SP to fly whatever the flavor of the month ship was just respecced into it every balance patch. Or you shoot a miner, he docks up and respecs into perfect T3 skills and kills you, then respecs back into mining directly after. It sounds likeimpulse chaos.

Base it on the remap system so it is not frequent and charge a couple of plex. Having the in game skills doesn't mean you will be able to properly fly a ship so I'm not overly concerned about a miner instantly turning into a pvp pro. But so what if they do?

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#257 - 2015-04-02 20:58:04 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I have enough SP to fly an Ishtar. But I didn't train into one. Now imagine everyone with the SP to fly whatever the flavor of the month ship was just respecced into it every balance patch. Or you shoot a miner, he docks up and respecs into perfect T3 skills and kills you, then respecs back into mining directly after. It sounds likeimpulse chaos.


Unfortunatelly you didn't read all the thread and all those threads linked on the first page.
The proposed SP remap is only available once a year, as well as you can't remap and you really don't need to touch your support skills like armor shield electronic engineering navigation etc. So basicaly ythe most common would be spaceship command gunnery/missile/drone and industry. So let's say you could only move 25?50? % of you skills from each category to another category.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#258 - 2015-04-02 21:34:54 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Buying skills points is a bad idea, and wll most likly cause another jita riot.

Changing the 'suitcase' icon for the damage control will probably cause a near-riot. Basically players are looking for an excuse to riot.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#259 - 2015-04-02 21:46:06 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:
I have enough SP to fly an Ishtar. But I didn't train into one. Now imagine everyone with the SP to fly whatever the flavor of the month ship was just respecced into it every balance patch. Or you shoot a miner, he docks up and respecs into perfect T3 skills and kills you, then respecs back into mining directly after. It sounds likeimpulse chaos.


Sounds like Battlefield 3. Shocked

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
VulpusFox
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#260 - 2015-04-03 00:48:31 UTC  |  Edited by: VulpusFox
Massive thread, admittedly too lazy to read it all.

But under the notion "once you can fly it you will always be able fly it"

If I train into a capital, could I then theoretically just pay to reallocate the requirement skills that have nothing to do with actually flying the cap(but are required to get to that point) and reallocate them to the cap support skills needed to fly it well?

Kind of like skill leapfrog, which would end up possibly dramatically shortening cap and super cap pilots times.

Even if I could only allocate a percentage of the support skills, it still seems counter to the point of having to initially train those skills in the first place

Or even just buying generic characters and paying an extra fee to fine tune a newly purchased alt to your liking.


Too much immediate gratification, and just feels bad to cater to people that just want it "now"

you make decisions in the game, you should have to live with those decisions to an extent. You buy the wrong item on market, well your stuck with some loss, you train the wrong skills, you should be stuck with some loss as well. Whether it be the time wasted, or percentage loss from reallocating them at least.