Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I did forward this thread to corbexx and via him to CCP... But i guess when cruisers deal 47%(ish) of all PVP damage in eve "battleships are in a good place right now" so its all cool...

God i loved that reddit thread where they took that graph CCP posted and fiddled with it until i showed what's ACTUALLY going on...

In my opinion Battleship tank and damage should be doubled, or made to be closer to 15-20% of a Dreadnaught. They seem to have been changed very little over the years, while many new powerful ships have been added and since eclipsed the role of BS in fights.

You can fit a T2 Cruiser to have more tank and equal dps as a Battleship, with a tiny sig radius and high agility and speed, effectively making them better than Battleships in every single way. Heck, the Ishtar even uses Battleship weapons and is literally a Dominix with high speed, agility, and a tiny signature. So buff up the BS!

T1 Battleship fleets should be pretty darn impressive, and T2 should be threatening to capital fleets, more-so than cruisers. I'd like to see T2 fit BSs with 200k EHP and 2k DPS. They are also generally much more expensive than Cruisers, without a huge benefit. T2 Cruisers cost about 2/3 of a T1 battleship, which makes sense - IF the Battleship was stronger. They still can't hit smaller ships very well because of gun tracking, but they would be great for straight brawls with other BS and Capitals. Plus they would be much harder to kill, which makes sense.

Yeah, you could overwhelm a Battleship fleet with Cruisers, but realistically the good counter to a Battleship fleet should be.. another Battleship fleet or a Capital fleet to squish it, which would then be countered with another Capital fleet. Cruisers would have trouble breaking the tank of the Battleship, where Battleships would have trouble tracking the smaller, faster cruisers.

Obviously it would be a pretty huge undertaking, as PVE would need to be re-hauled if Battleships are suddenly 2x stronger than they were, but I think that a BS buff would be a great bonus to EVE, especially if it closed the gap some between sub-Capitals and Capitals. A fully fitted T2 Battleship with all the bells and whistles costs 600-800k ISK, A T2 fit Carrier costs about 2-3x that, but they are 10x stronger.

Battlecruisers could simply have their stats adjusted to be what battleships are now, but keep the lower sig and such that the BC hulls have. This would create an even progression of relative ship size and power from frig-dread, or at least a more even one than exists now.

tl/dr: Greatly buff Battleships' EHP/DPS in order to make them stronger than Cruisers, and close the gap between sub-Capitals and Capitals.

The root suck with BC's and BS's is the slow warp speed itself.

Here's the thing. CCP you are staring down the barrel of competition with more twitch-based flight models like Star Citizen and Elite:Dangerous, and while I am zipping around in ships in those games with my hair on fire, you are telling me when I log into EVE my BC's and BS's have to troddle through gates like they are lumbering freighters?

There is no reason why their speeds (and corresponding faster classes) can't have their warp speeds re-buffed, provided a delta remains with fast tackle. BC's and BS's become 'fun to fly again', and you still have tackle that greatly outpaces them. Done.

Any conversations around EHP or DAM are secondary to this much needed speed fix IMHO, because if a sub-capital ship simply doesn't meet the 'fun to fly' smell test, you are done already...I'm leaving it in my hangar.

F

While I agree that battleships need something to compensate for the current shortcomings, a simple damage and or ehp buff won't do.

You just contradicted yourself and already answered the right question.

Here is the thing, you can triple or make battleships damage even tenfold - it just won't do you any good.

Take an Apocalyse and let's say mega-pulses do 3000dps on that Apocalyse. Then take a linked tengu or whatnot and try to hit it - nada.
You can have all the damage you want on your fitting screen but if your gun doesn't hit for any shot you just end up doing zero damage or for the slow - 0 dps.

From the other site of that fight any cruiser will do 100% to that Apocalypse of what the fitting screen is telling you it will.

Even at 1100m/s with an mwd on that Apocalypse will not be able to mitigate any damage since she will have the signature radius of the milky way galaxy at that speed.

And as I said earlier last week, the concept of 'fast attack' battleships went out the window before the tiericide approach at the concept phase.

When those mjd's were introduced they could have been a thing that battleships would have going for them but three minutes is just too long - your 250m battleship will be a yellow triangle in space by then anyways.

There are things that need to be looked at but the paper damage isn't on the list - their application is.

Long range battleship gun would need a hefty tracking increase, the signature resolution on all battleships hulls need a generous buff and short range battleship guns would need a need a milder tracking increase.

Now I have to brake a promise to James here and I hope he won't be too mad at me for it.

By battleship guns I mean all battleship wepaon system - yes CCP Fozzie that mean missile too.

You can make your jokes in front of a camera and believe I won't listen but you are clearly mistaken - information has always found a way to reach me - without even asking for it.

You may not realize it yet but my thread about missiles from four months ago does was sincere, maybe a little early for the meta to catch up but here we go.

At least some of you know that I will have adapted to metas before they even hit TQ.

That paired with a mild back-roling on the warpspeed and the pre-tiericide mineral requirement to build them will bring battleships back on the field and fun to fly and loose and do it all over again.

Right, like I said:



The point is that a cruiser gang could apply 100% dps all day and not break the tank of a BS fleet, or at least not before logistics can land reps. If the BS fleet is outnumbered enough, then it will go down, but BS guns DO do damage against cruisers, not 0%. So the cruisers wouldn't be able to kill any, and battleships would have trouble hitting them, but the damage buff would make it possible for them to hit for enough to be threatening. That plus just having some webs and target painters and the cruiser gang would want to re-think their "keep at range, follow the leader, F1" blob.

Edit: Clarification
Let's put it another way.
Frigates can hit cruisers 100% of the time, cruisers have trouble hitting frigates. 1 frigate, however, isn't too much of a threat to a cruiser, because they are much stronger in general.
You can, however, bring a couple buddies, then that cruiser is in trouble.
On the other hand, that cruiser can have a couple webs and a target painter, or just use smaller guns and then that frigate is in trouble

That's the basis of situational fitting.

Right now Cruisers are equal to BSs in DPS/HP.

Using the above example, it would be as if frigates had the same EHP and DPS as a cruiser, but they were itsy bitsy and moved 5x faster, meaning the cruiser wouldn't be able to hit the frigate, but the frigate could melt the cruiser.

Why not just give Battleships a Role bonus?

Something like "Heavy Reactor" - All bonuses for overloading modules get doubled.

That would give these slow ships some more flexibility in "Mexican standoff" situations. You could tank more, be faster or deal more damage (still for a limited amount of time) according to the situation you are in.

Battlecruisers on the other side suffer most from the Offgrid-Booster mechanic. If that could get fixed, they would be in a fine place because for their ability to field links in cheap and expendable ships for the fleet.

You're right, it would be a boost for a relatively short time. What makes it much easyer to balance.

I would also like to see a boost for battleships, but it have to be done very carefuly. Remote-repair battleship gangs for example would get insanely overpowered (allmost unbreakable in many situations) with some suggestions of this thread.

Perhaps "All bonuses for overloading modules get doubled and take 30% less heat damage" would be more appropriated.

I dunno, I kinda feel like fixing the foundation is a better idea then putting a bandaid on the roof. I would love to see more battlecruisers though, they're cool.

I think the damage is okay because battleships are way easier to move around and are a lot cheaper than capitals. Maybe they could use a small buff to damage, definitely should out-DPS attack battlecruisers and strategic cruisers though! But I think they should shine with more HP. I'd go for a major increase to battleship HP, at minimum 50% more than current. That will give them an edge as a solid rock that can stick around in a heavy fight.

I would have given attack battlecruisers medium weapons. A full rack of 8 mediums with two weapon bonuses would make them plenty competent as an ambush ship. They don't need larges, that just makes them encroach upon battleship utility.

edit: didn't see what Nikk Narrel posted first, but there, see, I'm not the only one.