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(Proposal) Replace static ore / ice belts with scanable sites
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Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2011-12-23 20:18:15 UTC
Anything to make mining less-bottable would be a definite improvement.

If the Bookmarks became an issue, add a line of code to the BM's folder interface (unseen by us) that creates a new kind of "'Roid - BM" that de-spawns with the site.

I'm *not* a coder, so have no idea if that would even be possible, but if they're going to be "random" spawning belts throughout a system, you would never need the same bookmark twice...

Random spawning belts, maybe a mining interface like PI so that you have to "target" the desirable portion of an asteroid to get the best ore in the 'roid - that should do a *lot* of botters in.


It would also (I think) have the effect of reducing bot-mining, and make Miner - mining more financially rewarding.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#22 - 2011-12-23 21:00:37 UTC
Personally, I like being able to log into Eve, check out local, see no goons, get into a hulk and warp on an ice belt without having to probe out a site first.

I think it should stay the way it is.

Everybody in favor of this approach could move to whs instead.

Make things harder for botters? In the short term, yes. Then they code smarter bots who can probe and you'll be back to square one.

If Eve can ragequit over something as small as the Nex store.. watch the rage unfold over a big change like this.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#23 - 2011-12-23 21:20:47 UTC
Nice concept.

Safeguards:


  • Systems 0.5 to 1.0 keep their belts (being charted territoriy means everybody knows where the ore is... and gankers too)

  • Sites should be small, so they wouldn't last more than three hours even to a solo Hulk (so botters should bother themselves to create new bookmarks each three hours)

  • Sites should be rellocated on each shutdown and of course wouldn't ever respawn, refill nor anything that made the bookmarks usable for more than 3 hours of exploitation or 23 natural hours.


Additionally, would be nice to create a lowsec miner, something with a tank parallel to its cost, 3 strip miner slots w/o Hulk bonus to mined amount and 1 slot for either a probe launcher or a cloaking device.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-12-23 21:29:09 UTC
I don't think it matters. You force ice and ore to be in sites and not belts and the bots will just start scanning. I would much rather see real belts in systems that actually span the entire system like real asteroid belts do and then add something else like sleeper rats that can kill the bots.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2011-12-24 00:27:10 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Personally, I like being able to log into Eve, check out local, see no goons, get into a hulk and warp on an ice belt without having to probe out a site first.

I think it should stay the way it is.

Everybody in favor of this approach could move to whs instead.

Make things harder for botters? In the short term, yes. Then they code smarter bots who can probe and you'll be back to square one.

If Eve can ragequit over something as small as the Nex store.. watch the rage unfold over a big change like this.

You mean you couldn't do 10 seconds of system scan to find a random 'roid? That's just lazy. I don't pretend to be a coder, but Bots Probing? I find that difficult to believe...

As for all of us in favor moving to WH's? I already live there.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2011-12-24 01:53:08 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I don't think it matters. You force ice and ore to be in sites and not belts and the bots will just start scanning. I would much rather see real belts in systems that actually span the entire system like real asteroid belts do and then add something else like sleeper rats that can kill the bots.

Bots have already had a good two years to start scanning. I betcha there's a reason why they haven't already...
Maxsim Goratiev
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-12-24 10:42:29 UTC
Bots will not be scanning any time soon, it would be outrageously difficult to make them do so, you would probably need image recognition for that, since the position of probes and signatures is random.

I support this motion.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#28 - 2011-12-24 13:49:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
+1

Myself and a few other people were throwing around an idea similar to this a while back in S&I.

edit -- found the link. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=43723

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Nevryn Takis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2011-12-24 17:06:39 UTC
There have been a number of threads on this topic ..

I posted an idea myself in this thread Mining Mechanics Change

There is also an opinion expressed in this thead that bots are quite capable of scanning, whether thats just using the ship scanner or with probes is another question.
Dutarro
Ghezer Aramih
#30 - 2011-12-24 17:07:58 UTC
Nice idea.

One comment from an astronomy nerd ... they should just be single, or maybe double asteroids in each location, not "belts". You could still have many targetable ore deposits sticking out of each roid so the gameplay is the mostly the same.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#31 - 2011-12-24 17:57:56 UTC
Actually quite like this, but yes, unfortunately the backlash from Eve's botting community would be immense.

Asuka Solo wrote:
Personally, I like being able to log into Eve, check out local, see no goons, get into a hulk and warp on an ice belt without having to probe out a site first.

(...)

Make things harder for botters? In the short term, yes. Then they code smarter bots who can probe and you'll be back to square one.

If Eve can ragequit over something as small as the Nex store.. watch the rage unfold over a big change like this.

Personally, I like being able to log into Eve, check out local, see no goons, get into a Tengu and warp to the 6/10 without having to... oh wait.

Also, bots that can probe... maybe. Bots that can probe quickly? No. Plus, from CCP's perspective, chances are they'd find those botters a hell of a lot easier if they four hours straight of terribad scanning to watch out for.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Velicitia
XS Tech
#32 - 2011-12-24 19:08:38 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Actually quite like this, but yes, unfortunately the backlash from Eve's botting community would be immense.


I fail to see the problem with this (well, all the forum whines will suck ... but once they're gone, it'll be great)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-12-25 05:18:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Gerrick Palivorn
+1 Never really liked mining that much, it would give good reason to mine in lowsec. Simply because of the rapid respawn rate of the sites it'll make it so someone will need to have to scan down a new system on the roam if they want to gank the mining op (or have it preprobed). This will give the miners time to GTFO before they lose there ships. I'm not saying that this will always happen, but it is more likely.

I also agree that 0.8-1.0 systems need to have anomoly belts veldspar only. If people want more than that they'll have to scan down sites.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2011-12-26 17:21:53 UTC
I think I would like this idea more if you had one giant belt that went around the entire planet or solar system but you had to scan to find the 2 or 3 roids that you could actually mine in that belt. It would be impossible to just warp to the belt and then just travel around it because it would simply take too long. You could also use this as an excuse to add in new probes. Mining probes and maybe even a new skill for it.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Seventh Seraph
AFK Empire
#35 - 2012-01-13 22:10:14 UTC
Scan sites, eliminate 100% of belt rat bots.

also force mining bots to reset / rescan all the time.

It's a win-win imho.


+1
Naj Panora
The Seekers of Ore
#36 - 2012-01-16 15:32:35 UTC
Good idea. Make the sites with the common ores (Veld through omber and pyro) able to be scanned to 100% with 1 probe and astrometrics 1 at 16 AU. That should take care of the new player argument.
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#37 - 2012-01-16 15:51:29 UTC
while i like the idea in principle this would absolutely murder the activity of ratting, especially when grinding sec (which is bad enough as is).

I has all the eve inactivity
Naj Panora
The Seekers of Ore
#38 - 2012-01-16 19:15:51 UTC
Karl Planck wrote:
while i like the idea in principle this would absolutely murder the activity of ratting, especially when grinding sec (which is bad enough as is).



I have a friend who has great Sec rating and he almost never kills belt rats. There are other ways to raise sec standing.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#39 - 2012-01-16 20:06:35 UTC
Naj Panora wrote:
Karl Planck wrote:
while i like the idea in principle this would absolutely murder the activity of ratting, especially when grinding sec (which is bad enough as is).



I have a friend who has great Sec rating and he almost never kills belt rats. There are other ways to raise sec standing.

Just out of interest, how? I've always done it by the old one BS each system null roams. A more boring approach would be awesome though Lol

Also, good point on this killing ratting. I would say just have this for the high value ores, but then it wouldn't really fix botting. Although it might make it less profitable.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#40 - 2012-01-16 20:58:16 UTC
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Naj Panora wrote:
Karl Planck wrote:
while i like the idea in principle this would absolutely murder the activity of ratting, especially when grinding sec (which is bad enough as is).



I have a friend who has great Sec rating and he almost never kills belt rats. There are other ways to raise sec standing.

Just out of interest, how? I've always done it by the old one BS each system null roams. A more boring approach would be awesome though Lol

Also, good point on this killing ratting. I would say just have this for the high value ores, but then it wouldn't really fix botting. Although it might make it less profitable.


the only other effective method i am aware of is tagging multiple lvl 4 missions through a few systems. However, this isn't too viable without either having decent sec to begin with or a lot of blues in teh area.

However I would be wiling to lose rats if I could purchase my way to good sec.

I has all the eve inactivity