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Missiles in PvP

Author
Jan van Riebeeck
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-03-26 18:00:11 UTC
Was just wondering how missiles do in PvP currently? I remember from way back that CCP kept on balancing the weapon systems, and the viability of weapon systems shift. I am currently dabbling in Hybrids (Caldari) but think I would enjoy missiles more. This is a new character so changing focus to any weapon system will not be a problem for me.

After having a look at the ships, I think I like the look of the Worm & Gila for pvp (are they competitive?), much later of course when I have the proper support skills for them.
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
#2 - 2015-03-26 18:05:15 UTC
According to the numbers, everything is in a comparable spot weapon system wise.

Personally, i find that the medium sized missiles are currently terrible for small group PVP where you don't have enough folk to volley through a target. Especially the Heavy Missiles ( I can't stand the current damage application of them ).

That said, cruises seem to be doing ok, lights and rockets have been good for a while now.

Stay far far away from Capital Missile systems, especially if you have to ask this in this section of the forums and you'll do ok ))
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#3 - 2015-03-26 18:15:08 UTC
i spend most of my time in a ham Legion/Sacrilege , they are great
(tip: use faction on anything smaller than a cruiser, reserve rage for big stuff)
Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#4 - 2015-03-26 19:06:09 UTC
A lot of people are using Caracals with rapid light missile launchers. These are cruiser-sized weapons that fire frigate-sized missiles, just at a much higher rate of fire and therefore higher damage-per-time. They absolutely murder frigates and I guess they're not bad against larger targets. So... that's working.

And of course there are lots of people flying stealth bombers with torpedoes. That's one of the first T2 ships most people train for, so everybody needs a little bit of missile skills.
Jan van Riebeeck
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-03-26 19:47:34 UTC
Thank you for the replies. I have already set up my training que to fly the Condor as a start, from there I will get the other Caldari missile ships trained, or at least up to Cruiser level. That should keep me busy for the next 6 months, and will then make a decision where to go from there (Minmatar or Pirate Faction).
Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#6 - 2015-03-26 20:15:42 UTC
Torpedoes are actually a battleship weapon. Stealth bombers are frigates that can fit them, oddly enough. If you train to fly a bomber, you can join the chat channel BOMBERS BAR and join a fleet to fly it with others (regardless of what corporation you may happen to be a member of). That'll give you a foundation to see what missile support skills you want to train up, if you enjoy it.
Ovv Topik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-03-27 00:01:13 UTC
Yea start with the Condor with LM's. Hookbills and Kestrels are more suited to Rockets.

Bear in mind when flying with a fleet that you will miss out on some killmails if you are rocking Missiles and the rest of the fleet is using turrets. As primaries are called, locked and F1'd, your ammo will still be on it's way to the target as it is vaporized.

The Talwar is the most popular low sp fleet missile ship btw.

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-03-27 00:20:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Desimus Maximus
Missiles have the best dmg application as far as consistency is concerned. If the target is within range the missiles will hit with full force.... the amount of damage is dependent on your skills and the size and speed of the ship as well as the missile type you are firing.. but they will hit 100%.

The reason some dont like them is the time it takes to reach the target and you will waste 1-2 volleys typically.

Personally I'd luv to fly with missile fleets.. but thats not what the uber leet meta that the null carebear renters coalitions will allow.

If you are going to pvp don't fly pirate faction ships.. you will rage quit for months when you lose your gila to a tristan.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-03-27 01:32:58 UTC
Basically light missiles are good, really good. As in "you can't touch me, because you're dead" sort of good. unfortunately, the damage application doesn't move up very well. Rapid light launchers are excellent, but the application from heavy missiles and heavy assault missiles isn't good enough to be worth using. Moving further up the size categories makes it worse.

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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#10 - 2015-03-27 01:58:11 UTC
If you are familiar with the Doppler effect (in IRL science; it's apparent when you are stationary and an emergency vehicle with a siren passes you at 100km/h or higher, the pitch is significantly different when it is approaching or receeding), you might be interested to know that you can create this effect in game with missiles.

A cunning player might be able to get amazing burst damage doing just this.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#11 - 2015-03-27 11:40:17 UTC
Ovv Topik wrote:

Bear in mind when flying with a fleet that you will miss out on some killmails if you are rocking Missiles and the rest of the fleet is using turrets. As primaries are called, locked and F1'd, your ammo will still be on it's way to the target as it is vaporized.

That's wrong. You don't need to hit or affect a target to get on its killmail. Activating an offensive modul is enough
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-03-27 16:15:53 UTC
Jan van Riebeeck wrote:
Was just wondering how missiles do in PvP currently? I remember from way back that CCP kept on balancing the weapon systems, and the viability of weapon systems shift. I am currently dabbling in Hybrids (Caldari) but think I would enjoy missiles more. This is a new character so changing focus to any weapon system will not be a problem for me.

After having a look at the ships, I think I like the look of the Worm & Gila for pvp (are they competitive?), much later of course when I have the proper support skills for them.

Missles are dank.

No cap use
Never miss
Selectable damage types

First consider.

Then consider. Or possibly this.

F
Jan van Riebeeck
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2015-03-27 18:43:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Jan van Riebeeck
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Jan van Riebeeck wrote:
Was just wondering how missiles do in PvP currently? I remember from way back that CCP kept on balancing the weapon systems, and the viability of weapon systems shift. I am currently dabbling in Hybrids (Caldari) but think I would enjoy missiles more. This is a new character so changing focus to any weapon system will not be a problem for me.

After having a look at the ships, I think I like the look of the Worm & Gila for pvp (are they competitive?), much later of course when I have the proper support skills for them.

Missles are dank.

No cap use
Never miss
Selectable damage types

First consider.

Then consider. Or possibly this.

F


Thanks! Exactly what I needed to know, and now I know what to aim for. Pity you moved to Null, the type of gameplay you were into certainly looks attractive!

Edit: I am pretty happy to see there is options for missile boats other than Caldari. I love the look of the Hybrid ships, but the missile ones could seriously do with a redesign.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-03-27 18:52:49 UTC
Ovv Topik wrote:
Yea start with the Condor with LM's. Hookbills and Kestrels are more suited to Rockets.

Bear in mind when flying with a fleet that you will miss out on some killmails if you are rocking Missiles and the rest of the fleet is using turrets. As primaries are called, locked and F1'd, your ammo will still be on it's way to the target as it is vaporized.

The Talwar is the most popular low sp fleet missile ship btw.


Wrong.

The moment you activate an offensive module, you are listed on the killmail.

I have plenty of 0 damage Drake killmails from myself to show you if you dont believe it

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#15 - 2015-03-27 21:13:15 UTC
Jan van Riebeeck wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Jan van Riebeeck wrote:
Was just wondering how missiles do in PvP currently? I remember from way back that CCP kept on balancing the weapon systems, and the viability of weapon systems shift. I am currently dabbling in Hybrids (Caldari) but think I would enjoy missiles more. This is a new character so changing focus to any weapon system will not be a problem for me.

After having a look at the ships, I think I like the look of the Worm & Gila for pvp (are they competitive?), much later of course when I have the proper support skills for them.

Missles are dank.

No cap use
Never miss
Selectable damage types

First consider.

Then consider. Or possibly this.

F


Thanks! Exactly what I needed to know, and now I know what to aim for. Pity you moved to Null, the type of gameplay you were into certainly looks attractive!

Edit: I am pretty happy to see there is options for missile boats other than Caldari. I love the look of the Hybrid ships, but the missile ones could seriously do with a redesign.

you realize he didn't bring the Corp with him right...business as usual for the rest of us.

Sacrilege is a great ship, well worth the train.
Ka'Narlist
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#16 - 2015-03-27 23:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ka'Narlist
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

Never miss

Thats very wrong too. There are a lot of instances where missiles don't hit the target. If it's to far away for the missile to reach it, if it's too fast for the missile so it runs out of fuel, if the missile gets destroyed, if the target warps off before the missile reachs it...
Phig Neutron
Starbreaker and Sons
#17 - 2015-03-28 08:34:27 UTC
Ka'Narlist wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

Never miss

Thats very wrong too. There are a lot of instances where missiles don't hit the target. If it's to far away for the missile to reach it, if it's too fast for the missile so it runs out of fuel, if the missile gets destroyed, if the target warps off before the missile reachs it...

Maybe when you shoot them.
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#18 - 2015-03-29 23:04:36 UTC
check out the eveiseasy youtube channel there is a kestral guide there.. lots of other guides also. Orthorus is the current meta..

... What next ??

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#19 - 2015-03-30 02:17:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
Ka'Narlist wrote:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:

Never miss

Thats very wrong too. There are a lot of instances where missiles don't hit the target. If it's to far away for the missile to reach it, if it's too fast for the missile so it runs out of fuel, if the missile gets destroyed, if the target warps off before the missile reachs it...


This is correct.

An Inferno Light Missile has a base speed of 3750m/s. Unless some effect makes it go faster, it is never hitting an Interceptor with a microwarpdrive that (typical speed: 4600m/s) that is flying directly away from the missile launcher, for much the same reason that a human throwing a spear cannot ever hope to hit a cheetah that is running at full sprint away from them.

What Feyd means, though, is that missiles don't have a random component to their damage. A blaster firing at an awkward range might be only 25% to hit a target. If it does 100 damage per hit on average, a blaster firing might look like this* over 12 shots:

Miss (0)
Miss (0)
Miss (0)
Miss (0)
Miss (0)
Hit (82)
Miss (0)
Miss (0)
Miss (0)
Hit (103)
Hit (110)
Miss (0)

A missile firing at a target where it only gets a quarter of its damage will instead do this:

Hit (25)
Hit (25)
Hit (25)
Hit (25)
Hit (25)
Hit (25)
Hit (25)
Hit (25)
Hit (25)
Hit (25)
Hit (25)
Hit (25)




* - I ignored some complexity in the blaster damage formula for simplicity - the "your best non-critical hits are the first ones to miss" part of the formula was dropped for simplicity.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-03-30 20:07:43 UTC
^^ That, and they are immune to tracking disruption. Now I typically have a fed navy web (with links) going out to 24km on most of my missile platforms (Sac, Damnation, Legion etc), so when I said missiles 'don't miss', I assumed you wouldn't be a member of TEST and knew how to engage within your weapons envelope, or with tackle allowing you to apply your damage vs. explosion velocity/radius/etc...for that mistaken assumption I apologize.

F
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