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Bye Bye AFK Cloaking

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Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#141 - 2015-03-24 02:43:10 UTC
im drinking afk cloaking campers tears.. I don't know about you guys..

but how does it taste?

I taste the fear!!


FEAR-BEER!!

Pour some out for the homies

tip up and get turned up

afk cloaking begone!!

(begins moonwalking)
Josef Djugashvilis
#142 - 2015-03-24 07:55:25 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
AFK cloaking should be nerfed just as soon as someone can show how an afk cloaker can hurt anyone.

Pretending you don't understand the problem doesn't make the problem go away. Its like saying hibernating bears are not dangerous because they're hibernating. ******** point of view to take isn't it.


The title of the thread is to do with afk cloaking.

My argument stands.

Pretending that an afk cloaker is a problem is nonsense.

afk cannot harm anyone.

Player is at the keyboard in a cloaked ship, valid style of gameplay.

Weapons do not do any harm you know? It's people who use weapons to harm other people. So why not sell weapons to everyone in any supermarket?

Your logic


Sorry, but your response is your, well, Iogic, not mine.

If a miner is afk and gets ganked it is his fault for being afk, if the same player is afk in a cloaked ship he is now a threat?

Weird.

This is not a signature.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#143 - 2015-03-24 08:00:59 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
im drinking afk cloaking campers tears.. I don't know about you guys..

but how does it taste?

I taste the fear!!


FEAR-BEER!!

Pour some out for the homies

tip up and get turned up

afk cloaking begone!!

(begins moonwalking)


Lol

the tears from this one. his butthurt is strong.
Tron Flux
Warlock Assassins
#144 - 2015-03-24 08:30:05 UTC
I can't help but think that the whole idea that meta-gaming while AFK == bad is a completely invented concept.

Exhibit A: the forums.

Since when are we not allowed to influence the way people play the game outside of the game or away from the keyboard? We have EvE blogs, and EvE maps, and EvE fitting tools, and EvE chat channels.

Many, if not most, people who play this game regularly have their game play influenced by people who are not at their keyboards right this very second.

Yeah, we aren't allowed to do certain very specific things while AFK. We can't blow stuff up. And we can't mine stuff. But that is an incredibly far cry from saying that you can't influence the players at all while you're AFK.

I think many people have jumped to an incredibly hasty generalization that says because we can't do x, we can't do some superset of x because of some imaginary general principle.

There might be other things wrong with AFK cloaking. But I'm quite certain that influencing the way some people play the game while away from it isn't a thing CCP really thinks of as an issue. Otherwise, we have a whole crap-ton of nerfs headed our way.

Obviously, CCP has historically made a clear distinction between influencing the players of the game, and having an in-game effect. Having and effect on the game while AFK? Kind of a big no-no. Affecting the way people play the game? That has, so far, been completely acceptable.

I'm not really sure why anyone would want that to change. It would be an enormous nerf to 'bears of all kinds if CCP were to change their attitude about this.
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#145 - 2015-03-24 10:42:51 UTC
I find it hilarious how doing absolutely nothing can fill people with paralyzing fear...

I like to hop into a Manticore and fly 60-70 jumps through Null to see what I can see. One time, I found an NPC station in Null and decided to park there for 2 weeks. I would log on and sit for hours chatting in my NPC Corp Chat. Finally after 2 weeks, someone asked me to chat. He wanted to know what I was doing in "their" station. Seems some Null Corp had set up their HO in this NPC station. They were scared I was some kind of spy who was watching them for nefarious reasons. So for the two weeks, they had stopped 90% of their ISK earning activity until I moved on.

I told them to relax, I was just hanging out. I'm betting they didn't believe me but who cares. And I learned I have a power I had no idea I had...
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#146 - 2015-03-24 12:43:22 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Sorry, but your response is your, well, Iogic, not mine.

If a miner is afk and gets ganked it is his fault for being afk, if the same player is afk in a cloaked ship he is now a threat?

Weird.
Dude, it's real simple. A cloaked pilot who is not AFK is definitely a threat, as he can come and kill you. There is no way to tell whether a pilot is AFK or not, thus an AFK pilot cloaked shhould be considered as much of a potential threat as a non-AFK one.

And for what you said, why doesn't that work both ways?
A miner is AFK - he gets ganked. Why then if a cloaker is AFK should he not get the exact same treatment? Why can a cloaker go AFK indefinitely and retain 100% safety?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
kitsune Sabre
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#147 - 2015-03-24 12:55:40 UTC
somebody using cloaking device no big deal if I get attacked by that person then one of my friends could come over and help me deal with them I'm not going to be a coward over one person
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#148 - 2015-03-24 13:01:25 UTC
kitsune Sabre wrote:
somebody using cloaking device no big deal if I get attacked by that person then one of my friends could come over and help me deal with them I'm not going to be a coward over one person
Good for you. Roll

I guess it's completely fine to have mechanics which allow people to have an effect - regardless of how minor - while they are asleep or at work with 100% safety because you don't care. At the end of the day, to play EVE you should play EVE. If you **** off to work and leave yourself logged in and in space you should expect to be dead by the time you get back. It's really that simple.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#149 - 2015-03-24 13:07:05 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Sorry, but your response is your, well, Iogic, not mine.

If a miner is afk and gets ganked it is his fault for being afk, if the same player is afk in a cloaked ship he is now a threat?

Weird.
Dude, it's real simple. A cloaked pilot who is not AFK is definitely a threat, as he can come and kill you. There is no way to tell whether a pilot is AFK or not, thus an AFK pilot cloaked shhould be considered as much of a potential threat as a non-AFK one.

And for what you said, why doesn't that work both ways?
A miner is AFK - he gets ganked. Why then if a cloaker is AFK should he not get the exact same treatment? Why can a cloaker go AFK indefinitely and retain 100% safety?


Because the afk cloaked, unlike the afk miner, can't interact with the environment in the same way.

The 'danger' narrative is a false one, people don't dock up because a cloaker is present, which is why 'afk cloaking' isn't a problem in worlmhoel space.

The problem is that in dominion CCP took anomalies and made the the center of the systems up grade scheme. Becasue anoms are open sites like belts, a cloaker can warp to one, decloak, point a pve ship and light a cyno, dropping enough ships on the pve boat to kill it quickly.

In other words, afk cloaking is the emergent gameplay counter to the anomaly farms Dominion created. And some of the farmers don't like it. So for 6 years now they yhave complained about it (while failing to complain about our anomaly farms that spew liquid isk every 20 minutes like old yeller).


This is why I could never bring myself to 'hate' cloakers, I KNOW the benefit I get from farmable anomalies (according to that niffty stats website, across the 3 characters I use in null I made 250 BILLION isk last year from null sec, mostly anoms, and another 100 bil from high sec incursions and mission on a 4th character. I have 2 bil in my wallet because budgeting is not my thing lol). Complaining about afk cloakers would be dishonest because even with them there I pried a quarter TRILLION isk out of null.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#150 - 2015-03-24 13:07:17 UTC
kitsune Sabre wrote:
somebody using cloaking device no big deal if I get attacked by that person then one of my friends could come over and help me deal with them I'm not going to be a coward over one person


yeah ok good luck, do you think the cloaky is just going to throw sisters probes at you till your "friend" arrives, no he gonna throw 15+ man bomber fleet at you

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#151 - 2015-03-24 14:23:48 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Because the afk cloaked, unlike the afk miner, can't interact with the environment in the same way.
An AFK miner also can't interact with the environment long term. At the very most he can mine up to 3 rocks until they dissappear, or his cargohold is full. Effectively he can mine at most about 8 million isk before he is no longer doing anything. Less in fact than if you drop sentries in an anom them go to bed. The difference is though that when encountered, a miner or a PvE player can be hunted down and destroyed. A cloaker has a small meta effect which will last indefinitely. Nobody can deny that AFK clokaers do cause a change in behaviour, otherwise they wouldn't exist, there would be no point in doing it if it had no effect. So why after 20 minutes (the approximate time for a miner to be no longer useful if AFK) should the cloaker not stop being effective too?

Jenn aSide wrote:
The 'danger' narrative is a false one, people don't dock up because a cloaker is present, which is why 'afk cloaking' isn't a problem in worlmhoel space.

The problem is that in dominion CCP took anomalies and made the the center of the systems up grade scheme. Becasue anoms are open sites like belts, a cloaker can warp to one, decloak, point a pve ship and light a cyno, dropping enough ships on the pve boat to kill it quickly.

In other words, afk cloaking is the emergent gameplay counter to the anomaly farms Dominion created. And some of the farmers don't like it. So for 6 years now they yhave complained about it (while failing to complain about our anomaly farms that spew liquid isk every 20 minutes like old yeller).
People don't necessarily dock up, but their behaviour changes. Wormholes have less of this as they are naturally places where you are more aware by choice, and they are so much easier to lock down. Wormholes can be closed down, classes restrict what size of ship you will see, and force projection doesn't exist. In addition, wormholes necessitate omnitanking, which isn't really an option for null PvE, which makes most player far more suited to surviving a PvP attack.

Jenn aSide wrote:
This is why I could never bring myself to 'hate' cloakers, I KNOW the benefit I get from farmable anomalies (according to that niffty stats website, across the 3 characters I use in null I made 250 BILLION isk last year from null sec, mostly anoms, and another 100 bil from high sec incursions and mission on a 4th character. I have 2 bil in my wallet because budgeting is not my thing lol). Complaining about afk cloakers would be dishonest because even with them there I pried a quarter TRILLION isk out of null.
I certainly don't hate cloakers, I just believe that players in all aspects of the game should need to be active, and where they choose to be undocked and away from the computer, they should be put at the same risk.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#152 - 2015-03-25 01:23:38 UTC
kitsune Sabre wrote:
somebody using cloaking device no big deal if I get attacked by that person then one of my friends could come over and help me deal with them I'm not going to be a coward over one person
How about this scenario that I have seen:

- The covert hot dropper has alts in every system.
- Knows how many you have and how many can respond.
- Drops a force that wipes out you and any of your friends that can respond in time.

Sits there for weeks.

Slow strangling death for an alliance. While him?
He gets to pick exactly when he plays those alts while all the others have play denial.
"Fun" game. Roll

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
#153 - 2015-03-25 03:06:33 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
kitsune Sabre wrote:
somebody using cloaking device no big deal if I get attacked by that person then one of my friends could come over and help me deal with them I'm not going to be a coward over one person
How about this scenario that I have seen:

- The covert hot dropper has alts in every system.
- Knows how many you have and how many can respond.
- Drops a force that wipes out you and any of your friends that can respond in time.

Sits there for weeks.

Slow strangling death for an alliance. While him?
He gets to pick exactly when he plays those alts while all the others have play denial.
"Fun" game. Roll


If you can't handle the heat, maybe you shouldn't be in null/low.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#154 - 2015-03-25 03:17:39 UTC
Adriana Nolen wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
kitsune Sabre wrote:
somebody using cloaking device no big deal if I get attacked by that person then one of my friends could come over and help me deal with them I'm not going to be a coward over one person
How about this scenario that I have seen:

- The covert hot dropper has alts in every system.
- Knows how many you have and how many can respond.
- Drops a force that wipes out you and any of your friends that can respond in time.

Sits there for weeks.

Slow strangling death for an alliance. While him?
He gets to pick exactly when he plays those alts while all the others have play denial.
"Fun" game. Roll


If you can't handle the heat, maybe you shouldn't be in null/low.
Yeah Jenshae! If you can;t handle someone being able to be completely invulnerable in your space even when they are asleep, clearly it's your fault and not dumb mechanics. You should just move out of null, that way people can happily continue to actively not play the game.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#155 - 2015-03-25 03:29:22 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
I certainly don't hate cloakers, I just believe that players in all aspects of the game should need to be active, and where they choose to be undocked and away from the computer, they should be put at the same risk.


You say, whilst being one of the most ardent defenders of mining, miners, and ISBotter.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#156 - 2015-03-25 03:37:13 UTC
Is it that time again? That moment when you realize that these are theoretical ideas and uses?

This isn't a "Cemented" change - it is a loose idea of what some possibilities could be. So not very speechless, because truthfully it probably wont make it in.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#157 - 2015-03-25 03:54:13 UTC
Adriana Nolen wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
kitsune Sabre wrote:
somebody using cloaking device no big deal if I get attacked by that person then one of my friends could come over and help me deal with them I'm not going to be a coward over one person
How about this scenario that I have seen:

- The covert hot dropper has alts in every system.
- Knows how many you have and how many can respond.
- Drops a force that wipes out you and any of your friends that can respond in time.

Sits there for weeks.

Slow strangling death for an alliance. While him?
He gets to pick exactly when he plays those alts while all the others have play denial.
"Fun" game. Roll


If you can't handle the heat, maybe you shouldn't be in null/low.


If you can't handle this simple logic, may be you should not be in the game.

You are going to loose this argument in the same way that IsBoxers have lost the key replication one.

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project
Demons Hell
Arial Enterprise
Sigma Grindset
#158 - 2015-03-25 10:10:34 UTC
useless afk cloaked camper = cancer for this game.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#159 - 2015-03-25 10:53:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
I certainly don't hate cloakers, I just believe that players in all aspects of the game should need to be active, and where they choose to be undocked and away from the computer, they should be put at the same risk.


You say, whilst being one of the most ardent defenders of mining, miners, and ISBotter.
Really? I Certainly defend mining as in I want the activity to continue, though I'd prefer it's AFK play to be addressed. That said, long term AFK isn't something you can do with mining, and short bursts of AFK are generally fine and exist in nearly all activites.

ISBoxer I have no problem with them removing, I've even suggested ways to make it completely useless. My issue with the ISBoxer situation was a combination of how they chose to address it, via fuzzy rules and not fixed mechanics, and their lack of communication over it. Of course you didn't realise that because you make wild assumptions rather than reading people's posts. Amusingly even if you read the post of mine you just quoted, it states that people ho are AFK should be at risk, which miners for example are. I want that for cloakers too.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#160 - 2015-03-25 13:24:56 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
I Certainly defend mining as in I want the activity to continue, though I'd prefer it's AFK play to be addressed.
I have come to like the semi-AFK nature of mining.
It is when you can organise things, share fits, make plans and so forth, all while making some ISK. If it became an active mini-game annoying activity then I would spin my ship when I was doing those things.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.