These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[New structures] Assembly Array and Research Laboratories

First post First post First post
Author
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Singularity Expedition Services
Singularity Syndicate
#41 - 2015-03-23 21:46:37 UTC
With regards to daracores rather than mining I would prefer to see them come from research on data slates found through exploration. The datacores delivered would depend on the science skill levels utilized by the capsuleer. Research time would be affected by the level of research upgrades.

This would tie datacore generation to science skills, introduce trade in the dataslates and boost dxploration as something useful would come from the data sites.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#42 - 2015-03-23 22:29:42 UTC
Manufacturing in a POS is currently an absolute crap shoot. You have to have so many different arrays and to follow market shifts you need a range of products so it gets crazy.
Compare to manufacturing in an outpost or station. You can do everything. There isn't any differentiation on 'what' you can build or how many lines to a particular product.

Assembly arrays should follow that principle. Not the current POS principle. If you want to encourage people to use them micromanagement simply to be able to build something is bad. So an assembly array should let you build anything right away. Services should enhance that in particular non essential ways.

So ME bonuses are bad. As they become a 'we have to use that ME bonus to compete on the market' issue.

Services should be things surrounding industry but not directly boosting it. Contract delivery services that allow people with contracts from a corp member to dock to deliver a contract, but not otherwise. Adding some research or admin ability to your array so you can use just one structure, time efficiency so you can do more bulk in the same time so better per hour profit (but not per item) etc.

Research should be the same thing, the base structure should allow everything, and a service should not give a per unit cost benefit.
A'Tolkar
Carlson's Raiders
#43 - 2015-03-23 22:31:50 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Hello people,

We would like your feedback on the various new structure lines presented during Fanfest and on our latest structure blog.

This particular thread is going to focus Assembly Arrays and Research Laboratories.


  • Assembly Arrays focus on manufacturing of the numerous EVE Online items, ships, modules, structures, components and etc... used in-game.

  • Research Laboratories are dedicated to blueprint research (ME, TE), blueprint copying, Tech II and Tech III blueprint invention, and datacore spawning.



Would one be able to boot strap an entire null-sec presence with a fleet of Prospects, and maybe a coupple blockade runners bringing out a small (or medium) Assembly Array structure, a service module to build more structures (currently not available with POS), and a container stuffed full of blueprints?
Kenneth Skybound
Gallifrey Resources
#44 - 2015-03-23 22:42:00 UTC
Choices and limitations.

Choices such as what types of assembly to provide.

Limitations such as how many lines a single person can create at a platform (not limiting global jobs, just per person).

TAXES.

Can't really comment on much else, not really sure of the vision of appropriate changes and direction.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#45 - 2015-03-24 00:46:02 UTC
What'll happen to the Hyasyoda mobile laboratory? Will it get upgraded into one of these? What are the mat increases going to look like?
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#46 - 2015-03-24 01:50:24 UTC
One of my biggest pain points with running as pos is that you need something like 6-8 different arrays to make stuff. My hope is this new one will be able to replace them all, so you can make everything in one package.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#47 - 2015-03-24 03:52:03 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
One of my biggest pain points with running as pos is that you need something like 6-8 different arrays to make stuff. My hope is this new one will be able to replace them all, so you can make everything in one package.


Or at the very least, research everything in one and manufacture everything in the other one.
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
#48 - 2015-03-24 05:16:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Deveron
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Datacore spawning is the only thing I don't really like.

Although you're doing something to remove the invulnerable passive generation of datacores, making them spawn and be scoopable isn't a way to "Farm" or "Harvest" datacores. It doesn't even feel like gameplay.

I've been thinking for a long while that datacores should be "mined". The way to do this would be to fly to a spatial anomaly or some kind of object in space and activate a type of (Hi Slot) analyser module on it. You would then harvest datacores (like mining gas or ore) by actually doing an activity in space. An activity that can be interdicted and disrupted.

The funny thing is that some of these spatial anomalies already exist in game. Some systems have strange spatial anomalies that cause damage when you get too close. We also have other things that could be used for datacore mining.

For example:

Every system in EvE has a star. These stars are different colours. So, why shouldn't each colour of star allow for different Analysis/Research to be carried out to gather datacores (Plasma Physics and nuclear physics are examples from a star).

Wormholes could produce graviton physics datacores when mined. (imagine people gathering around a WH to mine it!)

There are so many possibilities all of which can be super sci-fi.

There could also be a new range of ships with the specific role of gathering datacores.

This would be in and of itself an entire feature gameplay


For one these are DATACORES as in like hard drives filled with data....they are not mined.....they are written to by the researchers of specific categories of data.....sheesh. So allowing research characters to build them makes sense.
Spugg Galdon
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#49 - 2015-03-24 06:06:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
Max Deveron wrote:


For one these are DATACORES as in like hard drives filled with data....they are not mined.....they are written to by the researchers of specific categories of data.....sheesh. So allowing research characters to build them makes sense.



But we need to get people into space doing things.

I only use the term "Mining" as it is what most closely resembles the same activity.

Imagine the sun produced 4 different kinds of solar anomalies that had to be scanned down with probes.

A Solar Flare:
Solar flares release huge ammounts of high energy particles which are tremendously hot. Activating a research module on this type of anomaly would produce High Energy Physics Datacores (you're researching high energy physics by doing an action like mining on a solar flare) Proximity to this anomalie would do AoE kinetic damage

A Solar Prominance:
Solar prominance is held together with massive magnetic fields. Activating a research module on this type of anomaly would produce Electromagnetic Physics Datacores. These would have EM AoE damage

A Sun Spot:
Sun spots would allow you to gather Nuclear Physics datacores. They would have a thermal AoE damage

An Imminant CME (Coronal Mass Ejection)
These would allow the gathering of Plasma Physics datacores. Thw area would produce explosive AoE damage

Now, other types of research sites:
Highly Unstable Wormhole (non traversable) - Kinetic and EM AoE damage

Event Horizon Anomaly (centre of wormhole):
Research of this would produce Quantum Physics Datacores

Gravitation Anomaly (in the wormholes "rings"):
Study of this would produce Graviton Physics datacores

The other datacores would have other sites. All found through probes.

The ship line that would do this would be the SoCT ship line. They have flat resistance profiles allowing them to spec tank easily. They are the "Teaching" faction so it fits that they would do research.



What I'm suggesting is that it shouldn't be a passive production but an actual activity in space, in a ship, at extremely visually cool sites with some danger to them. Be that area of effect damage for some sites and NPC rats at others. They can also be scaled easily for system sec status. Lower sec status gives anomalies that produce more datacores per cycle of the research module.
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#50 - 2015-03-24 07:39:24 UTC
How will jobs be handled that span the entire time of changeover

i.e. research jobs that takes 2 years, or even 6 months?
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#51 - 2015-03-24 09:02:49 UTC
Spugg Galdon wrote:
What I'm suggesting is that it shouldn't be a passive production but an actual activity in space, in a ship, at extremely visually cool sites with some danger to them. Be that area of effect damage for some sites and NPC rats at others. They can also be scaled easily for system sec status. Lower sec status gives anomalies that produce more datacores per cycle of the research module.

Cool idea but do you really think they would implement it? They can fix data sites loot tables for i don't know, a year now? Now, they want to implement passive activity to increase some part of industry because it will be easier and maybe more ppl will do it. All of that because of "Sandbox" keyword. Which lead us to "PvP" keyword. Which in combat version is performed by maybe 20% of all players.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Spugg Galdon
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#52 - 2015-03-24 09:32:35 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:
What I'm suggesting is that it shouldn't be a passive production but an actual activity in space, in a ship, at extremely visually cool sites with some danger to them. Be that area of effect damage for some sites and NPC rats at others. They can also be scaled easily for system sec status. Lower sec status gives anomalies that produce more datacores per cycle of the research module.


Cool idea but do you really think they would implement it? They can fix data sites loot tables for i don't know, a year now? Now, they want to implement passive activity to increase some part of industry because it will be easier and maybe more ppl will do it. All of that because of "Sandbox" keyword. Which lead us to "PvP" keyword. Which in combat version is performed by maybe 20% of all players.


The idea of mining datacores actively would be fairly easy to implement (ignoring art). The concept is simply a mining type module that gathers datacores at a certain rate per cycle. That rate could easily be calculated by looking at the current rate at which you generate datacores via a research agent and transpose it into an active system (you would obviously get more datacores per hour in an active system than a passive system due to a player not being able to play for 24 hours a day 7 days a week, although some do try).

Research agents could still exist as mission agents that have special rewards geared more to research and invention. They would offer missions to gather a (worthless) datacore from a dangerous place in return for cash/datacores/rewards.


Data sites need to be reworked and are a problem at the moment. But maybe, just maybe, when they let us build meta modules (cause, you know, they want EVERYTHING in EvE built by players) data sites would drop meta module BPC's.
Couple that with a change in how loot drops from complete modules to "parts" (which all already exist in game) and these parts would be used with a T1 module and a BPC (gained from a data site) to build a meta level module.
That would be the simple way to fix data sites and boost industry and let us build meta modules.

However, I imagine they want to complete tiercide for modules first.
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC
#53 - 2015-03-24 09:35:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Droidyk
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:


For one these are DATACORES as in like hard drives filled with data....they are not mined.....they are written to by the researchers of specific categories of data.....sheesh. So allowing research characters to build them makes sense.



What I'm suggesting is that it shouldn't be a passive production but an actual activity in space, in a ship, at extremely visually cool sites with some danger to them. Be that area of effect damage for some sites and NPC rats at others. They can also be scaled easily for system sec status. Lower sec status gives anomalies that produce more datacores per cycle of the research module.


How I see it... the datacore spawning is going to be already happening in space, and I think it's active thing cause they will most likely spawn only if there is activity inside (research, invention, copying so on) which requires attention, material, money and stuff. And makes more sense for datacores to come from there than anywhere else in my opinion.
Spugg Galdon
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#54 - 2015-03-24 09:48:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
Droidyk wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Max Deveron wrote:


For one these are DATACORES as in like hard drives filled with data....they are not mined.....they are written to by the researchers of specific categories of data.....sheesh. So allowing research characters to build them makes sense.



What I'm suggesting is that it shouldn't be a passive production but an actual activity in space, in a ship, at extremely visually cool sites with some danger to them. Be that area of effect damage for some sites and NPC rats at others. They can also be scaled easily for system sec status. Lower sec status gives anomalies that produce more datacores per cycle of the research module.


How I see it... the datacore spawning is going to be already happening in space, and I think it's active thing cause they will most likely spawn only if there is activity inside (research, invention, copying so on) which requires attention, material, money and stuff. And makes much more sense for datacores to come from there than anywhere else in my opinion.



But is it interesting gameplay? Would players who build something, which is what they would be doing in this instance, like to have their product randomly ejected from the structure and able to be stolen? It is still a passive generation with an output that can be interdicted/intercepted. People will literally camp these things and wait for the datacaore ejection. This is not "fun" gameplay.

Yes, (some) people will say mining isn't fun but then again many many people do it because they enjoy that pace of gameplay.
Droidyk
Maniacal Miners INC
#55 - 2015-03-24 09:52:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Droidyk
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Droidyk wrote:
[quote=Spugg Galdon][quote=Max Deveron]

For one these are DATACORES as in like hard drives filled with data....they are not mined.....they are written to by the researchers of specific categories of data.....sheesh. So allowing research characters to build them makes sense.


But is it interesting gameplay? Would players who build something, which is what they would be doing in this instance, like to have their product randomly ejected from the structure and able to be stolen? It is still a passive generation with an output that can be interdicted/intercepted. People will literally camp these things and wait for the datacaore ejection. This is not "fun" gameplay.

Yes, (some) people will say mining isn't fun but then again many many people do it because they enjoy that pace of gameplay.


It can't be stolen by random players unless you enable a public access as I've read it so far.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#56 - 2015-03-24 09:53:21 UTC
Droidyk wrote:
How I see it... the datacore spawning is going to be already happening in space, and I think it's active thing cause they will most likely spawn only if there is activity inside (research, invention, copying so on) which requires attention, material, money and stuff. And makes much more sense for datacores to come from there than anywhere else in my opinion.

So i deploy Research lab. Fuel it. Start to making datacore. After they are researched they will be deployed into space...because of reason. If i do my research i don't throw it out the window for wrestling between scientists. This remind me the ESS feature or loot explosions at exploration cans, because of pvp...

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Banko Mato
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2015-03-24 10:05:19 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Manufacturing in a POS is currently an absolute crap shoot. You have to have so many different arrays and to follow market shifts you need a range of products so it gets crazy.
Compare to manufacturing in an outpost or station. You can do everything. There isn't any differentiation on 'what' you can build or how many lines to a particular product.

Assembly arrays should follow that principle. Not the current POS principle. If you want to encourage people to use them micromanagement simply to be able to build something is bad. So an assembly array should let you build anything right away. Services should enhance that in particular non essential ways.


I would rather have it the exact opposite: NO structure is allowed to be the general "build all" that outposts are today. No matter what people want to build, they need to focus their assembly structures on that task. Or allow everything to be build in the XL version, but with a heavy decrease in TE/ME when no dedicated service is present.
Anthar Thebess
#58 - 2015-03-24 11:30:22 UTC
Kenneth Feld wrote:
How will jobs be handled that span the entire time of changeover

i.e. research jobs that takes 2 years, or even 6 months?


Use NPC ... there is no better answer.
Spugg Galdon
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#59 - 2015-03-24 11:54:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Spugg Galdon
Droidyk wrote:
Spugg Galdon wrote:
Droidyk wrote:
[quote=Spugg Galdon][quote=Max Deveron]

For one these are DATACORES as in like hard drives filled with data....they are not mined.....they are written to by the researchers of specific categories of data.....sheesh. So allowing research characters to build them makes sense.


But is it interesting gameplay? Would players who build something, which is what they would be doing in this instance, like to have their product randomly ejected from the structure and able to be stolen? It is still a passive generation with an output that can be interdicted/intercepted. People will literally camp these things and wait for the datacaore ejection. This is not "fun" gameplay.

Yes, (some) people will say mining isn't fun but then again many many people do it because they enjoy that pace of gameplay.


It can't be stolen by random players unless you enable a public access as I've read it so far.



I've done a quick re-read and I see that. Still, it's a bit weird that you would produce datacores and have random people fly up and take them at a "tax rate". It's still un-interesting game play. It's still passive. And it's still invulnarable to interference other than destroying the structure.

I'd far prefer pilots had to get into a ship, fly into space and do an activity in space to gather a resource instead of generate it passively.

Research Laboratories could have a utility module that would improve the quality or number of research sites that spawn in a system.
Hafwolf
Krieg 7th Brigade
#60 - 2015-03-24 14:01:20 UTC
This can be applied to all structures but make the modules for them instead of anchor you can do a use the current bpo for structures for slots and the whole structure.

When you change make the bpo's change from the tower system to the new system so people already have bpo for all the accessories. You might be able to do something with the Tower bpo's to make them move towards the base structures.