Player Features and Ideas Discussion

T3 with both combat subsystem and ecm subsystem? They exclude each other, either you build hull like HAC or like ECM boat. You can't compare like that.

Long post but you have no idea what you talking about. ECM take mid slots, so either you tank above or make it ecm style. In this case you did ecm so either ecm mods on mids and ecm support mods on low will gave very weak tank, if not what's the point of make such ship? Sure dmg looks great on paper but with missiles it's not dps it's how you applied it. Still you comparing HAC to Ewar hull. Why? Hey lets compare T3 and Titans with doomsday weapons. T3 can't doomsday, such a shame...titans wins. EWAR output will always be better on tengu. Ewar that still can do dmg? Recons were buffed lately. Cerberus role is DPS not ecm, better or the same dps as fitted tengu above (without dmg mods ofc, i have no idea how you get worse result).

Can we get T3 that will do damage and will be able to ewar? We can. Can we build superior damage dealer and ewar ship? i don't think so. It will either dps or do damage good.

They won't. You're not entitled to compensation. Are you going to cry about it? Should we call your mother? Maybe we should call your mother.

CCP has the right to make balance changes to their game for whatever reason they see fit, including no reason at all. This balancing does not entitle you to anything nor were you given any guarantee that ships, modules or ammunition would not change in any way after you began to train for them.

you comparing T3 that can do ecm with hull that can't ecm. What you want to prove? yep cerberus is bad for ecm.
If you want a balance compare your T3 fit with recons, because of the same role they provide.

Problem with that is that the D3s completely invalidate any combat-ship from D2s down. It's not simply that a D3 can kill an AF/D2, it's that they do what those things do (particularly AFs) better.

You could do a lot to alleviate the Tech 3 Cruiser issue by simply removing their rig slots, or at least reducing them to a single rig. It would reinforce the idea that they're supposed to be adaptable ships, rather than just the same skill(s) covering several separate ships, which is what they functionally are now, and it would fall in line with the T1 and T2 rig progression.

Like the tempest :P

Gee, why does it not surprise me that T3 Destroyers has managed to find its way into this thread too... I think the proposed T3 Defensive Subsystem changes are fairly well-balanced, and it will be interesting to see what ideas CCP has for the other subsystems.

They just nerf one ship that takes long time to train and boost another ship that could be trianed faster. Why? Because the new gamers cannot fly on the T2 and T3 or carriers. Instead of learnig many of the nubes quit from the game or start to cry. And the nubes are the main source of the income because they can not buy PLEXes for ISK but they are able to buy them for $$.

It is much more easy to nerf/boost the old ships then to create something really new. Actually, CCP creates something really new and good but it happens very rarely like T3 destroyers creating or new broken worlds that are also a good thing.

And those things that CCP is calling "rebalance" is nothing more then lowering entrance level for new pilots. Why should You spend Your time to learn some ships and learn to fly on them when You can buy factional ship that would be better then T2 and fly on it after just 6 days in the game! I guess they would create some deadspace ships in the future that would require the same amount of skills as T1 or factional ships but would be the best ships in the game :)

If You are the nube in the expensive ship You wouldn't kill experienced players but You could more easily kill other nubs in the cheap ships. All You need is to buy some PLEXes for the real money sell them for ISK and then buy the ship/declare war!

What does it mean? It means that the whole auditory of the game may change slowly and it becomes nothing more but the second "World Of Tanks in space" after some time. But it could easily kill EVE because no one needs the second WOT but we need the 1st and only EVE.

Now EVE is the very special game and its main feature is the comunity of gamers that differs from the othe games' comunities. It seems to me that the way that CCP is following for the last 1-2 years has one main target - increase of the income of $$. And You wanna tell me that this is the correct way of the game management just because "CCP has the right to make balance changes to their game for whatever reason they see fit, including no reason at all."?! Such an approach could wash out slowly the old players from the game and break the main EVE's feature - its community. CCP think that it would help them to survive (because old players are paying for the game with PLEXEs not buy the real money). That's why CCP nerfs the best ships that are hard to train (like carries, dreads and most poular T2 and T3 ships) and boosts or leaves without any nerf factional ships and modules.

I just think that its a bad idea and very dangerous for the game way. I think that CCP should stop to just nerf/boost old ships but to create some new balance ways like special skills or really new ships (like T3 destroyers or SOE ships) or modules that could boost one thing and nerf other (like bastion module), or really new situations that woud require new skills/ships (like broken worlds, sleepers stash or burners missions).

Actually I can fly on many different ships that are just instruments for me. If Tengu dies I can use many other farming tacktics and ships. I just tried to explain my point of veiw with the Tengu's example.

If you are going to nerf T3s, you should also remove the skill loss as well. It isn't fair that the ship costs 3x-4x as much as the ships you mentioned being out-shadowed, but can still be taken out by those mentioned ships.

Think about it; you nerf T3s, without giving something back, T3 prices drop and sleeper salvage value drops, you have effectively crashed the best part of space to live in. You're not going to have many happy wormholers when they cannot effectively grind money like they used to.

Just saying.

I would have agreed with this 6 months ago before the re-balance of re-cons. Each re-con now effectively outperforms their perspective racial T3 in ewar (with not nearly as much tank). I get more range from webs out of a Huginn than a Loki. This is across the board. Unfortunately, I am still in the opinion that re-cons still need a little more help. They're still paper thin and some (like the curse) have serious cap issues. They've been designed to tank like a T1 but use some serious ewar power. A T3 can't neut, web, paint, jam, or point like a re-con but will have a significant tank and cap advantage. I can easily make a neuting legion cap stable with 120k plus ehp. This is important. Tank rules in a lot of situations which will make T3s very viable as a jack of all trades. Removing rigs in addition to the base defensive subsystem hit would render most of them useless.

CCP has essentially built most every ship to fit around the T3 which is why they're last in line next to capitals.

In any case I hope CCP continues to keep the balance even after each ship has found it's place and we're well into new structures and star gates.