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Download On Demand - Where is the off button?

First post
Author
Koebmand
Silverflames
#1 - 2015-03-18 01:28:24 UTC
No I don't want it.

I like to have 2 copies of Eve, when one is suddenly broken when I want to play, I can still play.

I don't mind downloading 9GB of data and then play.

I do mind having to sit and wait for loading while playing.

I do not want my clients incomplete, I like to take a copy on external HD and then it just works. Yes I can put the folder in one of the clients, but that won't work for the other.

If I wanted shared data, I would have hardlinked the files - guess what, my files are not hardlinked.
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
#2 - 2015-03-18 12:01:55 UTC
there is in download section in launcher option. but this is fake option it do notthing. DoD makes more problem than giving any benefits. i agree its nessecary but is not fully functional, so far runned into couple of problems so i agree . turn off DoD would be good
Koebmand
Silverflames
#3 - 2015-03-18 17:01:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Koebmand
It will never be "fully functional" since SiSi and TQ data are mixed together, there will forever be a wide upon point for test data infesting and breaking TQ data.

*EDIT* I only see "Delete Patches After Use" and "Download All Resource Files" options. No "Download everything immediately to the client folder and do not share data, in particular not between SiSi and TQ" - option.
Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed
#4 - 2015-03-18 23:14:53 UTC
It's one of the worst ideas ccp had this year so far.
While it is understandable that is helps new players start the game faster, 10 gigs isn't that much to download, and it is a dumb idea to cripple the game itself by making it download stuff constantly, when there are already so many process issues and bugs.
If a new player cant wait a few hours for 10 gigs to finish downloading, do you really think that he's gonna wait those xxxx amount of days for his skills to finish training.
Ask yourself that deep inside.

~lvl 60 paladin~

Noriko Mai
#5 - 2015-03-19 00:32:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Noriko Mai
Koebmand wrote:
No I don't want it.

I like to have 2 copies of Eve, when one is suddenly broken when I want to play, I can still play.

I don't mind downloading 9GB of data and then play.

I do mind having to sit and wait for loading while playing.

I do not want my clients incomplete, I like to take a copy on external HD and then it just works. Yes I can put the folder in one of the clients, but that won't work for the other.

If I wanted shared data, I would have hardlinked the files - guess what, my files are not hardlinked.

Koebmand wrote:
It will never be "fully functional" since SiSi and TQ data are mixed together, there will forever be a wide upon point for test data infesting and breaking TQ data.

*EDIT* I only see "Delete Patches After Use" and "Download All Resource Files" options. No "Download everything immediately to the client folder and do not share data, in particular not between SiSi and TQ" - option.

I think you don't understand what you are talking about.

- You can download everything immediately to a location of your choosing. If it makes you feel better you can put a location inside your TQ folder.
- You don't have to mix SiSi and TQ data if you don't want to. Just choose a different location for SiSi data.
- Mixing is no problem since every file that is equal is shared and everything that is different is safed in different files. So if you use the same folder and dataset X is same on TQ and SiSi it is used by both clients, if SiSi introduces something new it is safed in a different file in that folder and is not used by the TQ client since it's not indexed in that client.

You basically just safe space on you drive. That's the only essential change!

Amak Boma wrote:
there is in download section in launcher option. but this is fake option it do notthing. DoD makes more problem than giving any benefits. i agree its nessecary but is not fully functional, so far runned into couple of problems so i agree . turn off DoD would be good

I guess you mean "download all" feature in download section. Activate it, restart the launcher, it will work.

Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:
It's one of the worst ideas ccp had this year so far.
While it is understandable that is helps new players start the game faster, 10 gigs isn't that much to download, and it is a dumb idea to cripple the game itself by making it download stuff constantly, when there are already so many process issues and bugs.
If a new player cant wait a few hours for 10 gigs to finish downloading, do you really think that he's gonna wait those xxxx amount of days for his skills to finish training.
Ask yourself that deep inside.

Stats show different. IIRC CCP Rise said that there are a lot of new accounts that start downloading but never finish.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed
#6 - 2015-03-19 08:27:48 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:

Stats show different. IIRC CCP Rise said that there are a lot of new accounts that start downloading but never finish.


That's just me clicking the wrong button.

~lvl 60 paladin~

CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#7 - 2015-03-19 19:21:12 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Habakuk
Noriko Mai wrote:
...
- You don't have to mix SiSi and TQ data if you don't want to. Just choose a different location for SiSi data.

This is actually not true - all EVE installs will use the same cache location. If you change the cache location then you change it for all clients.

Quote:
- Mixing is no problem since every file that is equal is shared and everything that is different is safed in different files. So if you use the same folder and dataset X is same on TQ and SiSi it is used by both clients, if SiSi introduces something new it is safed in a different file in that folder and is not used by the TQ client since it's not indexed in that client.

You basically just safe space on you drive. That's the only essential change!.

This on the other hand is true. All version of a resource file have their own name in the resource cache. This prevents unwanted mixing of resources between Singularity and Tranquility. If we for example change the model of the Megathron slightly, then you will download new files as soon as you see one on Singularity. The Tranquility client will then use these same new files as soon the new model has been released to TQ and not any earlier.

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#8 - 2015-03-19 19:37:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Noriko Mai wrote:
...
- You don't have to mix SiSi and TQ data if you don't want to. Just choose a different location for SiSi data.

This is actually not true - all EVE installs will use the same cache location. If you change the cache location then you change it for all clients.

Quote:
- Mixing is no problem since every file that is equal is shared and everything that is different is safed in different files. So if you use the same folder and dataset X is same on TQ and SiSi it is used by both clients, if SiSi introduces something new it is safed in a different file in that folder and is not used by the TQ client since it's not indexed in that client.

You basically just safe space on you drive. That's the only essential change!.

This on the other hand is true. All version of a resource file have their own name in the resource cache. This prevents unwanted mixing of resources between Singularity and Tranquility. If we for example change the model of the Megathron slightly, then you will download new files as soon as you see one on Singularity. The Tranquility client will then use these same new files as soon the new model has been released to TQ and not any earlier.


You can however presave the resource cache to another location that does not auto update. When something goes wrong you can change the location the launcher pulls the data from and not have to down load all the data again.

The question is will change the launcher settings changing it in all launchers even if you have different short cuts launching different launchers.

How soon til a launcher that has all programs in one location gets deployed?

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Noriko Mai
#9 - 2015-03-19 22:57:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Noriko Mai
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Noriko Mai wrote:
...
- You don't have to mix SiSi and TQ data if you don't want to. Just choose a different location for SiSi data.

This is actually not true - all EVE installs will use the same cache location. If you change the cache location then you change it for all clients.


I didn't thought about registry stuff, sorry OopsOopsOopsCryCry You (CCP) could use a different reg key for every installation, but that wouldn't make much sense.

Salpun wrote:
The question is will change the launcher settings changing it in all launchers even if you have different short cuts launching different launchers.

If I understand it correctly it's safed in a registry key which is used by all installations.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#10 - 2015-03-20 08:31:22 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:
If I understand it correctly it's safed in a registry key which is used by all installations.


This is correct. I had some issues with DoD when I first used it and I checked everything I could think of including registry. There I found a couple of keys for the location of the resource cache. One key was for Eve itself and one was for the EveProbe.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.

Koebmand
Silverflames
#11 - 2015-03-20 09:13:49 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:


- You can download everything immediately to a location of your choosing. If it makes you feel better you can put a location inside your TQ folder.


One of my TQ folders, not both and not both my TQ folders and my SiSi folder.

From the Dev blog " What about multiple clients?

This will actually make your life easier with multiple clients – the cache for downloaded resources will be shared without any special setup. Each install is only about 350MB and the resources live in a shared location."

Noriko Mai wrote:

- You don't have to mix SiSi and TQ data if you don't want to. Just choose a different location for SiSi data.


How?

Noriko Mai wrote:


- Mixing is no problem since every file that is equal is shared and everything that is different is safed in different files. So if you use the same folder and dataset X is same on TQ and SiSi it is used by both clients, if SiSi introduces something new it is safed in a different file in that folder and is not used by the TQ client since it's not indexed in that client.



Can you please again explain how SiSi data is stored at a different location?

Noriko Mai wrote:


You basically just safe space on you drive. That's the only essential change!



You might want to read line 2 of the first post again.



Koebmand
Silverflames
#12 - 2015-03-20 09:17:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Koebmand
CCP Habakuk wrote:


Quote:
- Mixing is no problem since every file that is equal is shared and everything that is different is safed in different files. So if you use the same folder and dataset X is same on TQ and SiSi it is used by both clients, if SiSi introduces something new it is safed in a different file in that folder and is not used by the TQ client since it's not indexed in that client.

You basically just safe space on you drive. That's the only essential change!.


This on the other hand is true. All version of a resource file have their own name in the resource cache. This prevents unwanted mixing of resources between Singularity and Tranquility. If we for example change the model of the Megathron slightly, then you will download new files as soon as you see one on Singularity. The Tranquility client will then use these same new files as soon the new model has been released to TQ and not any earlier.



And this will of course always work, because no one ever in the history of software development has made an error with version numbers.

And there is also the broken client now will mean all copies issue.

*EDIT* Broke quotes.

*EDIT 2* The only option that is actually missing to change this from much sadness into a useful feature (for new players), is the option to not use shared storage. The Download Immediately will allow us to just patch while doing something else and not have to wait during actual game play.
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#13 - 2015-03-20 10:27:36 UTC
Koebmand wrote:

And this will of course always work, because no one ever in the history of software development has made an error with version numbers.


In this case we are not relying on a version number, but on the hash of the content. For this to fail the hash of two different versions would have to be the same - which is possible in theory, but extremely unlikely (I don't have the numbers for this, but CCP Snorlax investigated this in detail).

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing

Koebmand
Silverflames
#14 - 2015-03-20 16:10:32 UTC
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Koebmand wrote:

And this will of course always work, because no one ever in the history of software development has made an error with version numbers.


In this case we are not relying on a version number, but on the hash of the content. For this to fail the hash of two different versions would have to be the same - which is possible in theory, but extremely unlikely (I don't have the numbers for this, but CCP Snorlax investigated this in detail).


Sounds a lot better than a human needing to remember to update a number / run the right script when they make chances.

But I still want a check box to not have to take the risk - especially since I want the check box to keep separate copies for when one break locally - yes it also happens rather infrequently (so far once in 14 months), but since it is so easy to avoid it will annoy me great deal if it ever goes wrong :).

Steam has broken twice in same period, I would never consider running Eve through Steam.
Noriko Mai
#15 - 2015-03-21 01:29:33 UTC
Koebmand wrote:
But I still want a check box to not have to take the risk - especially since I want the check box to keep separate copies for when one break locally - yes it also happens rather infrequently (so far once in 14 months), but since it is so easy to avoid it will annoy me great deal if it ever goes wrong :).

Stop using IBM 350s.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Ur'yaen
Xcense
#16 - 2015-03-24 11:00:05 UTC
If someone could elnlighten me on that topic please

Currently I have 3 EvE folders - SiSi, TQ 1st account, TQ 2nd account (as a walkaround to not being able to switch toons without relogging). At this moment each launcher/game updates separately and I'm ok with that.

With DoD will that change and if, how do i keep it the old way?

Can I patch all 3 clients and pick different cache folder for each or they will be somehow forced to use one?



Koebmand
Silverflames
#17 - 2015-03-24 13:11:31 UTC
Ur'yaen wrote:


With DoD will that change and if, how do i keep it the old way?

Can I patch all 3 clients and pick different cache folder for each or they will be somehow forced to use one?



Yes it changed.

You can't keep it the old way, they did not add the off button in the live release.

No you can't keep the data separate, you are forced to only have 1 copy.

They use registry in its worst ways to make sure users get screwed (you can try hack the registry, depending exactly how CCP use it, this will work or possible entirely break the clients).
CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#18 - 2015-03-24 15:48:54 UTC
Ur'yaen wrote:
If someone could elnlighten me on that topic please

Currently I have 3 EvE folders - SiSi, TQ 1st account, TQ 2nd account (as a walkaround to not being able to switch toons without relogging). At this moment each launcher/game updates separately and I'm ok with that.

With DoD will that change and if, how do i keep it the old way?

Can I patch all 3 clients and pick different cache folder for each or they will be somehow forced to use one?



All clients will use the same cache folder, but the client and launcher stay separate. With your setup you will still need to patch the clients separately, but you will have to download way less (as all resources are only downloaded once).

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing

msu320
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-03-24 18:16:10 UTC
600MB downloaded from initial setup download to the dock in Jita and 1.4GB total after 4-5 hours- including a 600 ship fight.

5 minutes of bandwidth used on a 30mbit/second connection.

Whats not to love.
Ur'yaen
Xcense
#20 - 2015-03-24 22:39:16 UTC
CCP Habakuk wrote:
Ur'yaen wrote:
If someone could elnlighten me on that topic please

Currently I have 3 EvE folders - SiSi, TQ 1st account, TQ 2nd account (as a walkaround to not being able to switch toons without relogging). At this moment each launcher/game updates separately and I'm ok with that.

With DoD will that change and if, how do i keep it the old way?

Can I patch all 3 clients and pick different cache folder for each or they will be somehow forced to use one?



All clients will use the same cache folder, but the client and launcher stay separate. With your setup you will still need to patch the clients separately, but you will have to download way less (as all resources are only downloaded once).


TY for clarification.

All clients patched, but either something went wrong, or i messed up with a path for one TQ cache folder. I now have a, lets say "main", game folder weighing 26GB (13GB cache +13GB ResFiles) and two game folders weighing under 1GB. Is there any way i could point third "bad" client to correct cache folder?
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