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Why does caldari militia fail? Your viewsplease

Author
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#101 - 2011-12-22 17:01:30 UTC
kill board efficiency is miss leading value.

Usually people consider that example good merc corps should have at least 80% efficiency.

Personally think that good efficiency is over 90%

Efficiency is usually lower on guys who do solo pvp etc so it is not exact value to measure success.

If you analyze kill board stats you can not take only 1 value out and decide if it is good or not.

Both gallente and Caldari has bad overall stats and that is how it should be with random newbies on board.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#102 - 2011-12-22 17:52:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Gallactica wrote:
Your winning the isk war.......

Caldari Kills : 144,454
Losses: 146,688

Damage done (isk) 7,382.68 b
Damage Received (isk) 5,923.53 b

Efficeincy: 55.48%

Gallente Kills: 159,052
Losses: 118,165
Damage done (isk) 8,132.79 b
Damage Received (isk) 4,560.24 b

Ecy: 64.07%

We have killed nearly a trillion more isk than you, and lost 1.5 trillion less isk than you.

Its not even close mate.


I wasn't saying Caldari was winning the ISK war vs Gallente I was saying that on efficiency as shown on eve-kill is very skewed.. They seem to "only" count ship kills in their figure while right there in their own stats Caldari is well over 100% on ISK efficiency.

I only compared Gallente & Caldari together to show the Caldari has a much higher Kill to ISK ratio than Gallente. Meaning it cost Caldari less ISK to get a kill or we are giving more valuable stuff than we are losing. The point being IMO that is efficient on the ISk which for what ever reason KB's seem to not take into consideration.

Not to mention that it's pretty easy to see that Caldari gets a mis-represented kill efficiency stat due to the large number of mission farmers that we can't do anything about. Remove all those mission farmers from FW and their losses that we get stuck with and you see over 100% efficiency on Caldari KB stats..

ie.. the stats don't show the picture which is the point I was making.


EVIL SYNNs wrote:
[quote=Gallactica]Your winning the isk war.......



Gall you look crazy man! How can 2 sides of a war both have +50% efficiency against each other?



Because FW involves out side forces as well. It's not just a straight up 100% piece of the kill pie between Gallente & Caldari. There is Amarr, Minmatar, pies, neutrals and even NPCs..

haha add in NPCs to the stats and Caldari would probably have 20% due to all the mission bears.. that add nothing to FW but KM fodder for Gallente. No one wants to run Gallentre missions so they don't have to deal with the same issues we do in that regard. I'd gladly kill the ISK farming tards myself if it wouldn't trash my standings.

Although I do remember a certian Gallente BS gang getting welped by incursion rats on a gate several months back.. Lol
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#103 - 2011-12-22 18:12:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Bad Messenger wrote:

Personally think that good efficiency is over 90%

Efficiency is usually lower on guys who do solo pvp etc so it is not exact value to measure success.



This isn't true.. I don't solo as much as I used to on this char so his kill stats are skewed with fleet kills however my other main that I hardly ever fly there days is probably 80% solo kills. Granted he doesn't have a crazy amount of kills due to me not flying him much but he's 370 kills to 76 losses. Damage done is 17.13B to 1.98B in losses that's 89.65% efficiency on EVE kill which shows all my losses on him but is missing about 30 kills.

I flew a mix of BC, cruiser & frigs all T1.. Rifters, Ruptures & Hurricanes. so it's not like I was going around killing a bunch of frigs in a arti cane or flying some ubber pie frig. Kills break down was 89 frigs, 72 cruisers, 81 BS with 22 dessies & 11 Hacs, 11 assault ships & 28 BS. (with some assorted others here & there)

Meaning you can still have very good efficiency as a soloer and "actually fighting you just have to be smart enough to not get ganked when someone yells "It's a Tarp!" Cool
EVIL SYNNs
Parabellum.
#104 - 2011-12-22 18:45:37 UTC
Gallactica wrote:
Amar / minmatar / neutral kills / losses would be my education guess Evil :)


My piont! It would be nice to see what the actual score is?

Just so I know where we starting

have I mentioned how bad these forums are?
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Villore Accords
#105 - 2011-12-23 07:23:16 UTC
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
It is clear from Gallente response time they have a properly functioning command and control system, whatever it is, or however simple it is.Bottom line, they are able to mass quickly in the appropriate ships.Caldari command and control is a mess, and response times are abysmal


Disclaimer: EU Timezone completely independent from US TZ, I'm only talking about the latter.

Second disclaimer: The last time I was really active was back in July, but when I log in things aren't too different lately.

I'd say the gallente's US TZ power comes from the reverse: We don't really have a command and control system, rather we have a lot of pilots who are comfortable roaming around solo. Because of this, we get good intel, and when someone spots something we have a lot of pilots who can quickly reship and *get themselves to the fight independently*.

That means our response is fast since the FC doesn't have to rally everyone together. It's the lack of a command and control system that leads to fast response times, and that leads to good intel.

As an added bonus: those pilots that might want to have their hand held on the way to a fight learn if they don't reship and get to where they should be fast, they get left behind and left out of the killmail fun. As a consequence, they learn next time to have the right ships ready and to move when there is intel to be acted on.

Finally, when you have a string of people coming to the fight, it's hard for the enemy to get good intel on your fleet, instead of the traditional blob that you can get a full count as they warp from gate to gate and wait.

Otherwise, what do I see the caldari do wrong? The biggest thing is a lack of will to lose ships: An example, chased a caldari fleet around a bit, they decided to fight on a gate, but half the enemy fleet warped away right at the start of the fight since it would have been a close fight, instead it turned into slauighter. Those exact same pilots came back 2 minutes later when they came to help the gallente against a pirate fleet in the same system when their ships weren't really at risk. I see this time and again, intel has so many caldari pilots, but a number just decide to flee at the start of a pitched battle.
Cromwell Savage
The Screaming Seagulls
#106 - 2011-12-23 07:42:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Cromwell Savage
chatgris wrote:
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
....


....



In before the manditory Damar response to anything Chatgris posts with his "wall-o-text" of seething hatred with posted links of his pew pew awesomeness where he single handedly beat back entire Gallente and Minmatar blobs solo while killing faction BS and cruisers with one shot ... while he was oustide.... in the snow ..... naked ....... petting his pet reindeer "Muffy".....
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
Ghostbirds
#107 - 2011-12-23 09:00:18 UTC
Cromwell Savage wrote:
In before the manditory Damar response


Sorry, I'm too busy laughing to minmatars who demand I return back to fight instead of catching bus for work (for Matar, Eve > paycheck obviously) when I log on briefly after breakfast and kill some stuff before logging off. Remember boys and girls, using ECM when fighting outnumbered is totally unfair and cowardly. So say the warriors of the republic Big smile
Vordak Kallager
New Order Outreach Division
CODE.
#108 - 2011-12-23 12:45:49 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Cromwell Savage wrote:
In before the manditory Damar response


Sorry, I'm too busy laughing to minmatars who demand I return back to fight instead of catching bus for work (for Matar, Eve > paycheck obviously) when I log on briefly after breakfast and kill some stuff before logging off. Remember boys and girls, using ECM when fighting outnumbered is totally unfair and cowardly. So say the warriors of the republic Big smile


Damar is mad we took back Dal, clearly.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.

Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
Ghostbirds
#109 - 2011-12-23 14:03:59 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Damar is mad we took back Dal, clearly.


"We are in total control of Dal and losing over 300 ships to NAERY is not at all annoying" - spokesperson for Autocannons Anonymous

Anyway, i'm looking forward to fights to retake it. You'll just need to wait until holidays are over since some of us do have families to attend to. And lets not forget that while you retook Dal. Amarr recaptured a system elsewhere Lol
DNLeviathan
Cosmic Monsters
Escape Velocity.
#110 - 2011-12-23 14:42:57 UTC
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Vordak Kallager wrote:
Damar is mad we took back Dal, clearly.


"We are in total control of Dal and losing over 300 ships to NAERY is not at all annoying" - spokesperson for Autocannons Anonymous

Anyway, i'm looking forward to fights to retake it. You'll just need to wait until holidays are over since some of us do have families to attend to. And lets not forget that while you retook Dal. Amarr recaptured a system elsewhere Lol


and here was me thinking plexing was your sole reason for living
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#111 - 2011-12-23 15:05:01 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
It is clear from Gallente response time they have a properly functioning command and control system, whatever it is, or however simple it is.Bottom line, they are able to mass quickly in the appropriate ships.Caldari command and control is a mess, and response times are abysmal


Disclaimer: EU Timezone completely independent from US TZ, I'm only talking about the latter.

Second disclaimer: The last time I was really active was back in July, but when I log in things aren't too different lately.

I'd say the gallente's US TZ power comes from the reverse: We don't really have a command and control system, rather we have a lot of pilots who are comfortable roaming around solo. Because of this, we get good intel, and when someone spots something we have a lot of pilots who can quickly reship and *get themselves to the fight independently*.

That means our response is fast since the FC doesn't have to rally everyone together. It's the lack of a command and control system that leads to fast response times, and that leads to good intel.

As an added bonus: those pilots that might want to have their hand held on the way to a fight learn if they don't reship and get to where they should be fast, they get left behind and left out of the killmail fun. As a consequence, they learn next time to have the right ships ready and to move when there is intel to be acted on.

Finally, when you have a string of people coming to the fight, it's hard for the enemy to get good intel on your fleet, instead of the traditional blob that you can get a full count as they warp from gate to gate and wait.

Otherwise, what do I see the caldari do wrong? The biggest thing is a lack of will to lose ships: An example, chased a caldari fleet around a bit, they decided to fight on a gate, but half the enemy fleet warped away right at the start of the fight since it would have been a close fight, instead it turned into slauighter. Those exact same pilots came back 2 minutes later when they came to help the gallente against a pirate fleet in the same system when their ships weren't really at risk. I see this time and again, intel has so many caldari pilots, but a number just decide to flee at the start of a pitched battle.
You are mistaken if you don't think what you described is an effective command and control system, and i think you are also glossing over the fact that they do join fleet once they get to the battlespace.

The ability to Mass quickly from disparate points is one of the main principles of maneuver warfare.Being distributed throughout the pipes generating actionable intel, whether it be by design or not, has the same net effect.It is a doctrine, wether you realize it or not, inasmuch as you have many pilots engaging in the same behavior.they ape those who have been in militia longer than them, as the Caldari ape the behavior they see in the senior members on their side as well.

The whole point you make you yourself seem to miss :
": those pilots that might want to have their hand held on the way to a fight learn if they don't reship and get to where they should be fast, they get left behind and left out of the killmail fun. As a consequence, they learn next time to have the right ships ready and to move when there is intel to be acted on"

the point is there. It is established doctrine. Show up in whats needed fast, or be left out.What YOU are leaving out is that it is in fact necessary for SOMEONE to have told them what ships were gonna be needed and where to mass.It doesnt matter if it's someone different, the practice has already been established. It is operational doctrine.

All I'm saying is you don't see it for what it is.everything you guys do you can find laid out in the" Maneuver warfare handbook",right down to getting inside the enemies decision cycle.fancy terms for simple common sense things, except, sometimes people dont do them, which is why they had to come up with nomenclature for it in the first place.

There is a lot that goes into it, even if you think it's random.One of your other gallente pals mentioned " disorganized organization" or "organizewd chaos".You may be interested to know that is specifically USMC combat doctrine, that they seek to create that very situation, even at the riskof their own command and control being interrupted, as it is seen as an opportunity to create a fluid situation wherein a subordinate commander can create an opportunity in said chaos, then capitalize on it and exploit it.Kinda works best when there is a common basis in training ( or experience, in your case) as the troops have an idea how to react and seize the initiative when those opportunities arise. Were one side to sit back and wait for orders then any opportunity they had may well be lost by the time they got those orders.You don't see the order in what you are doing, or your militia, but I do, even if it is unintentional.It's just basically sound doctrine, as far as maneuver warfare goes, which is what we engage in, and call it "small gang warfare".
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#112 - 2011-12-23 16:53:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mutnin
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
It is clear from Gallente response time they have a properly functioning command and control system, whatever it is, or however simple it is.Bottom line, they are able to mass quickly in the appropriate ships.Caldari command and control is a mess, and response times are abysmal


Disclaimer: EU Timezone completely independent from US TZ, I'm only talking about the latter.

Second disclaimer: The last time I was really active was back in July, but when I log in things aren't too different lately.

I'd say the gallente's US TZ power comes from the reverse: We don't really have a command and control system, rather we have a lot of pilots who are comfortable roaming around solo. Because of this, we get good intel, and when someone spots something we have a lot of pilots who can quickly reship and *get themselves to the fight independently*.

That means our response is fast since the FC doesn't have to rally everyone together. It's the lack of a command and control system that leads to fast response times, and that leads to good intel.

As an added bonus: those pilots that might want to have their hand held on the way to a fight learn if they don't reship and get to where they should be fast, they get left behind and left out of the killmail fun. As a consequence, they learn next time to have the right ships ready and to move when there is intel to be acted on.

Finally, when you have a string of people coming to the fight, it's hard for the enemy to get good intel on your fleet, instead of the traditional blob that you can get a full count as they warp from gate to gate and wait.

Otherwise, what do I see the caldari do wrong? The biggest thing is a lack of will to lose ships: An example, chased a caldari fleet around a bit, they decided to fight on a gate, but half the enemy fleet warped away right at the start of the fight since it would have been a close fight, instead it turned into slauighter. Those exact same pilots came back 2 minutes later when they came to help the gallente against a pirate fleet in the same system when their ships weren't really at risk. I see this time and again, intel has so many caldari pilots, but a number just decide to flee at the start of a pitched battle.
You are mistaken if you don't think what you described is an effective command and control system, and i think you are also glossing over the fact that they do join fleet once they get to the battlespace.

The ability to Mass quickly from disparate points is one of the main principles of maneuver warfare.Being distributed throughout the pipes generating actionable intel, whether it be by design or not, has the same net effect.It is a doctrine, wether you realize it or not, inasmuch as you have many pilots engaging in the same behavior.they ape those who have been in militia longer than them, as the Caldari ape the behavior they see in the senior members on their side as well.

The whole point you make you yourself seem to miss :
": those pilots that might want to have their hand held on the way to a fight learn if they don't reship and get to where they should be fast, they get left behind and left out of the killmail fun. As a consequence, they learn next time to have the right ships ready and to move when there is intel to be acted on"

the point is there. It is established doctrine. Show up in whats needed fast, or be left out.What YOU are leaving out is that it is in fact necessary for SOMEONE to have told them what ships were gonna be needed and where to mass.It doesnt matter if it's someone different, the practice has already been established. It is operational doctrine.

All I'm saying is you don't see it for what it is.everything you guys do you can find laid out in the" Maneuver warfare handbook",right down to getting inside the enemies decision cycle.fancy terms for simple common sense things, except, sometimes people dont do them, which is why they had to come up with nomenclature for it in the first place.

There is a lot that goes into it, even if you think it's random.One of your other gallente pals mentioned " disorganized organization" or "organizewd chaos".You may be interested to know that is specifically USMC combat doctrine, that they seek to create that very situation, even at the riskof their own command and control being interrupted, as it is seen as an opportunity to create a fluid situation wherein a subordinate commander can create an opportunity in said chaos, then capitalize on it and exploit it.Kinda works best when there is a common basis in training ( or experience, in your case) as the troops have an idea how to react and seize the initiative when those opportunities arise. Were one side to sit back and wait for orders then any opportunity they had may well be lost by the time they got those orders.You don't see the order in what you are doing, or your militia, but I do, even if it is unintentional.It's just basically sound doctrine, as far as maneuver warfare goes, which is what we engage in, and call it "small gang warfare".



My shorted thoughts on how this method works from experience.. Starts off in Gal intel channel with.. "He's got me tackled" HALP!!! 30 seconds later gall pilots are jumping in system from every gate trying to get 2% of a KM. Lol

In case of Gal pilots being too far away to "HALP" it typically is.. tackled guy jumps out of gate or docks to safely when possible, then mysteriously undocks or jumps back in trying to look like helpless little pony blinking eyes as if he hasn't already stalled for enough time to ensure proper gank by 20 guys 1 system over, expecting you to then take bait and smacking if you have half a brain and don't accept a 1v1 offer. Roll
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#113 - 2011-12-23 17:03:38 UTC
Hey, I tried. You can lead a horse to water.......
Pax Thar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2011-12-23 17:07:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Pax Thar
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Cromwell Savage wrote:
In before the manditory Damar response


Sorry, I'm too busy laughing to minmatars who demand I return back to fight instead of catching bus for work (for Matar, Eve > paycheck obviously) when I log on briefly after breakfast and kill some stuff before logging off. Remember boys and girls, using ECM when fighting outnumbered is totally unfair and cowardly. So say the warriors of the republic Big smile



Ive engaged you several times with 2 and 3-1 odds against and been ECMed to all hell every time. Dont even try and go there. In fact i think every hookbill that flys has 2 Minnie jammers and every Caracal has 3... am I not correct?
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Villore Accords
#115 - 2011-12-23 18:09:40 UTC
Pax Thar wrote:
Damar Rocarion wrote:
Cromwell Savage wrote:
In before the manditory Damar response


Sorry, I'm too busy laughing to minmatars who demand I return back to fight instead of catching bus for work (for Matar, Eve > paycheck obviously) when I log on briefly after breakfast and kill some stuff before logging off. Remember boys and girls, using ECM when fighting outnumbered is totally unfair and cowardly. So say the warriors of the republic Big smile



Ive engaged you several times with 2 and 3-1 odds against and been ECMed to all hell every time. Dont even try and go there. In fact i think every hookbill that flys has 2 Minnie jammers and every Caracal has 3... am I not correct?


He's just trying to emulate what he's used to in caldari plexes: his opponents unable to maintain lock on anything.
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
Ghostbirds
#116 - 2011-12-24 06:43:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Damar Rocarion
chatgris wrote:
He's just trying to emulate what he's used to in caldari plexes: his opponents unable to maintain lock on anything.


Must be annoying to you that I kill people, whether or not it's crappy Amarr NPC's on my side or quality Matar NPC's against me. Perhaps you should ask your corpies for those anger management guides they like to spam my evemail box with and see if they help.
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#117 - 2011-12-24 06:55:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara
...
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
#118 - 2011-12-24 07:27:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanaka Sekigahara
I thought I might go back to the beggining of the thread and see if maybe we might get back on track( futile, I Know).

DNLeviathan wrote:
i know alot of people say its cause its the carebear faction and ive used thaty excue myself many times. but now my view has changed. they shoot blues. why would anyone fleet up when they may get ganked by their own miltia buddies?
if itsnot that then they declare internal wardecs because a neutral alt was not made aware of and got ganked by blues.
3rd reason is they all demand that everyone plays the exact same way wether they like it or not. its a game, have fun, fly the way you want to fly and maybe JUST MAYBE more people would get involved.


So , after 6 pages, where do we stand?

OP sees internal divisions and strife. He says the masses wont accept a single leader and they wont accept advice.-I agree.

Pulgy thinks they are simply bored and left

Zeerover seems to concur, citing the lack of quality opponents and a "mutual respect" that developed that, I guess, it's implied that made them uninclined to fight against those who remained in Gal militia- My own opinion is that Wolfsbrigade leadership had their own agenda, their own war goals, they achieved them, and left.

Mutnin says no leadership, internal strife, and spies are the problem

Damars' opinion is.... I'm not sure what Damar's opinion is. He can speak for himself, although that doesn't seem to clarify his stance.Near as I can gather he seems to be saying the Gals offer boring fights,so people got bored and left, beyond that, he loathes Gallente and has no respect for them ,less than anything on earth, with the exception of Cal militia which he seems to loathe more and respect less.

Bad Messenger has a different perspectivet.He sees a lack of strong leadership, ,and the ability to develop leaders as inhibited by several factors. He says a lack of goals is the primary reason. He says petty jealousy assures aspiring leaders are marginalized,and unclear goals assure no competent leader wants the job.
He goes on to say their fleet fits are Ill adapted to the changes that could, and should, be anticipated during a battle, and furthermore, it takes an unreasonably long time to train a group of qualified pilots, and that with no clear goals, noone is inclined to undertake the task, as the question remains "what is the motivation, if we have no goals".To my mind Bad Messenger is closest to the mark.

Shaalira says Caldari dont generate enough actionable intel.I agree, and will add that when they do, they are unable to mass and engage in a timely manner.

Scrutt makes the point Cal milita doesn't task their fleet setups properly for the expected fight, and cites lack of pilot training, and lack of direction as a reason, and also makes some points as to part of this problem being the result of where Caldari Pilots are drawn from.He questions the commitment of the Caldari,says if they were serious they would do what was needed to bring a proper fleet.

I agree, but will say a good commander makes a good assesment of his available means, makes adjustments, and then comes up with an achievable mission.
This can be done with simply said group of scrub pilots alone, or, as an element of a larger fleet.A creative commander can and will find uses for the unwashed masses of poorly fitted caracals, drakes and merlins.I did.MCB did. We also had a hard core of highly qualified pilots,in corps, accountable to leadership,and, in conjunction with general militia were able to achieve our goals.

Amadeus cites poor FCs and monolithic fleet fits.

Stalking Mantis cites lack of doctrine, lack of discipline, and weak FCs who cannot manage their personell properly.
Overall, he cites lack of commitment, and inability of part time warriors to run and win a war.Loved the movie clip by the way.Hits the nail on the head.

Mjolnir Gost takes the opposite view, saying we simply need more men, and anyone who says otherwise is butthurt from Diaper rash.I disagree.Perhaps, sir, had you and yours not attempted to slap diapers on grown men they would not have developed said rash.

I have spent many a day running around in a 25 man gangs lead by Andraz, or Gavin, or even myself, and torn up enemy fleet after fleet, all larger than ourselves.They had battleships. We didn't. they had logistics. We didn't.Kills vs losses were typically 2.5-1

Training, cohesion, doctrine, mobility, intel, leadership, the ability to dictate the tempo of the engagement, the ability to dictate the terms of the engagement, the ability to mass quickly from disparate points, the ability to seize and maintain the initiative and the ability to get inside the enemies decision cycle were the keys to victory.

it is clear several points are salient

1) Unclear goals

2) Lack of leadersdhip

3) Inability to develop capable leadership

4) Lack of actionable intel

5) Inability to react swiftly enough to exploit actionable intel when it is recieved

6) Inability to properly fit fleets

7) lack of properly trained pilots

8) Lack of Commitment on the part of Caldari , resulting in all of the above.

Clausewitz said, all wars are won by destroying the enemies will to fight.It is clear the will to fight on the part of the state is at a low ebb.

For my part I have been inactive of late out of sheer disgust.

I have played for 5 years , and have hardly if ever posted before the last 2 months.I do not post because I wish to, but because I am compelled to.Despite myself, and my better judgement, I can no longer stay silent.

My will to fight remains.I'm not going anywhere.

Whatever damage is done by me speaking ( and I have always tried to maintain at least amicable relationships with all parties in militia), it can't be any worse than what we have now.

This issue of leadeship,This ulcerated festering pistule, needs to be lanced.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#119 - 2011-12-24 07:32:32 UTC
Mutnin wrote:

In case of Gal pilots being too far away to "HALP" it typically is.. tackled guy jumps out of gate or docks to safely when possible, then mysteriously undocks or jumps back in trying to look like helpless little pony blinking eyes as if he hasn't already stalled for enough time to ensure proper gank by 20 guys 1 system over, expecting you to then take bait and smacking if you have half a brain and don't accept a 1v1 offer. Roll

FYI, QCATS and most of the major Gallente FW corps have a strict 1v1 policy. All mutually agreed-upon 1v1s must be honored.


X Gallentius
Black Eagle5
Villore Accords
#120 - 2011-12-24 07:36:18 UTC
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
This issue of leadeship,This ulcerated festering pistule, needs to be lanced.

Start with a small group of like minded players, and build from there. You don't need the entire militia on your side, you need those who are on your side to be on the same page.

Or, you need to get Andraz on your side. That guy is a maniac FC.