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Does alignment affect the time into warp?
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Cecilla Rui
Edge of Existence
#1 - 2015-03-19 21:53:26 UTC
If you use any ship, it is clear that there are ships getting faster into warp then others.

But what if you take a ship which is alligned to the warp to location with 0 m/s. It will take the time to get to 3/4 of the maxspeed and then the ship will get into warp.
Is the alignment determining for the time to get into warp?
Or could my ship be alligned with any angle to my warp to location and the time won't change?

My physic comprehension would say:

The time is the same when the ship needs more time to get to 3/4 speed then to align itself, but if the ship need more time to align itself then to get to 3/4 of the maxspeed it will affect the "getintowarptime".

If my Physic comprehension is right, i want to know if there are even ships whose need more time to align itself then getting into warpspeed.

CC.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2015-03-19 22:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
the server recognizes ships only as spheres with mass, agility, and a velocity (including direction). It doesn't matter which direction the ship model is facing if it is at 0m/s. If you are movin at any velocity counter to your warp direction, this increases the time since it has to move to proper angle.

For example:

My rifter is standing still facing the opposite direction for warp. It has the exact same align time as a rifter facing the proper direction.

If my rifter is moving at any velocity away from the warp angle, the time to warp increases.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#3 - 2015-03-19 22:16:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Epeen
^What he says. ^

The ship you see on the screen is only loosely based on what's actually there. Say you have two ships beside each other and want to warp to a moon, for example. What you see is one pointing left and the other pointing right. What the server sees is two ships that will get into warp in X seconds. Thus both will go into warp at the same time.

Mr Epeen Cool

Edit: Posted before you made that example. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
Cecilla Rui
Edge of Existence
#4 - 2015-03-19 22:23:15 UTC
Rowells wrote:
the server recognizes ships only as spheres with mass, agility, and a velocity (including direction). It doesn't matter which direction the ship model is facing if it is at 0m/s. If you are movin at any velocity counter to your warp direction, this increases the time since it has to move to proper angle.

For example:

My rifter is standing still facing the opposite direction for warp. It has the exact same align time as a rifter facing the proper direction.

If my rifter is moving at any velocity away from the warp angle, the time to warp increases.


Thanks for your reply.

Back to your first example. If you press the warp to button you ship will start to accelerate immediatly. Isn't that a contradiction to what you said afterwards?

So the alignment affects the time to warp too because you will immediatly accelerate once you pressed the button.

I hope you can understand what i am thinking about and what i wanna say with it...Roll
Maybe its just me who should take some physic lessons again.

CC.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-03-19 22:24:31 UTC
In my experience flying fat-arse ships (Jump Freighters), I'd say they take MUCH more time to go from zero to align speed then to turn their big booty from a random direction to the correct direction to warp.

When you've just jumped into a system, you have zero speed and no direction. If you start aligning and use an alt with 3 webs you warp almost instantly.

On the other hand, if you undock and hit ctrl-space to stop and also use your webbing alt to slow down, even when you're going just 10 m/s or less it takes forever to align to the out-gate and warp.

Hope that answers your question, mate.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#6 - 2015-03-19 22:29:16 UTC
The direction your ship appears to face on your client is for cosmetic purposes only. It has no impact on gameplay.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Cecilla Rui
Edge of Existence
#7 - 2015-03-19 22:33:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Cecilla Rui
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
In my experience flying fat-arse ships (Jump Freighters), I'd say they take MUCH more time to go from zero to align speed then to turn their big booty from a random direction to the correct direction to warp.

When you've just jumped into a system, you have zero speed and no direction. If you start aligning and use an alt with 3 webs you warp almost instantly.

On the other hand, if you undock and hit ctrl-space to stop and also use your webbing alt to slow down, even when you're going just 10 m/s or less it takes forever to align to the out-gate and warp.

Hope that answers your question, mate.


Thanks for your reply.

Thats the answer i was searching for. Smile

I heared a myth about ships beeing at full speed and warping without beeing aligned to their destination. That should not work.

CC.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-03-19 22:40:18 UTC
Cecilla Rui wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
In my experience flying fat-arse ships (Jump Freighters), I'd say they take MUCH more time to go from zero to align speed then to turn their big booty from a random direction to the correct direction to warp.

When you've just jumped into a system, you have zero speed and no direction. If you start aligning and use an alt with 3 webs you warp almost instantly.

On the other hand, if you undock and hit ctrl-space to stop and also use your webbing alt to slow down, even when you're going just 10 m/s or less it takes forever to align to the out-gate and warp.

Hope that answers your question, mate.


Thanks for your reply.

Thats the answer i was searching for. Smile

I heared a myth about ships beeing at full speed and warping without beeing aligned to their destination. That should not work.

CC.
Yw.

To warp you need 75% max speed (after all modifiers, e.g. webs) and direction within a few '3D degrees' (whatever that is) of the destination. Again, you notice this 'within a few degrees' thing with fat capitals, they enter warp before being perfectly aligned. They complete the alignment while already in warp (it's kinda funny to see).

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2015-03-19 22:42:48 UTC
Cecilla Rui wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
In my experience flying fat-arse ships (Jump Freighters), I'd say they take MUCH more time to go from zero to align speed then to turn their big booty from a random direction to the correct direction to warp.

When you've just jumped into a system, you have zero speed and no direction. If you start aligning and use an alt with 3 webs you warp almost instantly.

On the other hand, if you undock and hit ctrl-space to stop and also use your webbing alt to slow down, even when you're going just 10 m/s or less it takes forever to align to the out-gate and warp.

Hope that answers your question, mate.


Thanks for your reply.

Thats the answer i was searching for. Smile

I heared a myth about ships beeing at full speed and warping without beeing aligned to their destination. That should not work.

CC.

I'm going to assume that myth stemmed from one of two phenomena.

Either a ship with extremely high agility seeming to warp instantly when the direction of travel is close to warp angle (but not completely)

Or

The common sight of extremely large ships "moonwalking" into warp when the model is facing a completely different direction relative to its actual direction of movement.

The second one is kinda neat since in can throw my naglfar into warp sideways with some speed tricks.
Cecilla Rui
Edge of Existence
#10 - 2015-03-19 22:54:54 UTC
Rowells wrote:

I'm going to assume that myth stemmed from one of two phenomena.

Either a ship with extremely high agility seeming to warp instantly when the direction of travel is close to warp angle (but not completely)

Or

The common sight of extremely large ships "moonwalking" into warp when the model is facing a completely different direction relative to its actual direction of movement.

The second one is kinda neat since in can throw my naglfar into warp sideways with some speed tricks.


Yea the myth i heared about is more like your second description . A big-sized ship moonwalking in the warp with an angle of almost 90 degree to the direction of the warp.

Anyone has any video evidence of something like that?

I do not believe this game has physics installed like this....

CC.
Paranoid Loyd
#11 - 2015-03-19 22:59:55 UTC
It's not physics, it's the animation not being in sync with what is actually happening.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#12 - 2015-03-19 23:01:48 UTC
Cecilla Rui wrote:
Rowells wrote:

I'm going to assume that myth stemmed from one of two phenomena.

Either a ship with extremely high agility seeming to warp instantly when the direction of travel is close to warp angle (but not completely)

Or

The common sight of extremely large ships "moonwalking" into warp when the model is facing a completely different direction relative to its actual direction of movement.

The second one is kinda neat since in can throw my naglfar into warp sideways with some speed tricks.


Yea the myth i heared about is more like your second description . A big-sized ship moonwalking in the warp with an angle of almost 90 degree to the direction of the warp.

Anyone has any video evidence of something like that?

I do not believe this game has physics installed like this....

CC.



If a ship is at zero speed it can warp in any direction in the same exact amount of time

Don't be lured into the "passive" alive mindset, also, the direction your ship is facing on your screen has zero to do with warp alignment.

You can warp a titan to a pos and bounce off the tower and when it bounces backwards you can re warp back to where you came instantly and be facing 180 out from your warp
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#13 - 2015-03-19 23:06:33 UTC
Cecilla Rui wrote:
Anyone has any video evidence of something like that?

I've gone into warp with my Nag dozens of times while recording, so I probably do. :effort: though putting it on Youtube.
Cecilla Rui
Edge of Existence
#14 - 2015-03-19 23:08:34 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
It's not physics, it's the animation not being in sync with what is actually happening.


So you would say it's a bug in the game. In a game where the physics of flying ships is the most important thing. Based on the time eve exists and the accountcounter it have such a bug would be a pathetic display.

CC.
Paranoid Loyd
#15 - 2015-03-19 23:33:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Cecilla Rui wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
It's not physics, it's the animation not being in sync with what is actually happening.


So you would say it's a bug in the game. In a game where the physics of flying ships is the most important thing. Based on the time eve exists and the accountcounter it have such a bug would be a pathetic display.

CC.

No I wouldn't say its a bug, I would say it is the lesser of two evils. What you want will cause lag, none of us want lag. As long as you understand the mechanics, what you see on the screen doesn't really matter unless you get hung up on immersion but you haven't said anything about that.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-03-19 23:40:23 UTC
Cecilla Rui wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
It's not physics, it's the animation not being in sync with what is actually happening.


So you would say it's a bug in the game. In a game where the physics of flying ships is the most important thing. Based on the time eve exists and the accountcounter it have such a bug would be a pathetic display.

CC.

Not a bug. Imagine your ship is stilling perfectly still, and visually facing SpaceEast.

You then tell your ship to warp to a place that is directly SpaceWest.

One second later, as far as the server is concerned you are now heading directly SpaceWest, because you didn't actually have a direction while sitting still.

If someone then applies many webs to you and your max speed drops to the point where your current speed is above the minimum warp speed threshold, your ship will instantly go into warp.

Of course, since this whole process from starting to move to entering warp takes two seconds, It's quite likely that your ship is still visually in the process of turning around 180 degrees.

TLDR: It's not a bug, it's simply an unavoidable byproduct of having visual approximations of position and movement.

Under normal conditions, you won't see ships warping sideways, it only comes into effect when ships are rapidly webbed into warp, primarily freighters and carriers traveling at speed.

The server never tells your client what way you or anyone else is facing. It tells you how fast you are moving in what direction, and your client renders that information on your side.
Cecilla Rui
Edge of Existence
#17 - 2015-03-19 23:46:40 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Cecilla Rui wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
It's not physics, it's the animation not being in sync with what is actually happening.


So you would say it's a bug in the game. In a game where the physics of flying ships is the most important thing. Based on the time eve exists and the accountcounter it have such a bug would be a pathetic display.

CC.

No I wouldn't say its a bug, I would say it is the lesser of two evils. What you want will cause lag, none of us want lag. As long as you understand the mechanics, what you see on the screen doesn't really matter unless you get hung up on immersion but you haven't said anything about that.


Okay that may be your opinion, but i think you can almost always compile things without bugs and without causing lags. The one/team programming should be that advanced to fix even things like that.
The little things in the game are the things to make that up. All those realistic feature in eve e.g. the missiles with their parabolic and recalculated flight path if the target is moving or not.... are features why i decided to play eve and not another game. That's why i would say it is a bug! Blink

CC.
Paranoid Loyd
#18 - 2015-03-19 23:55:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Cecilla Rui wrote:
Okay that may be your opinion, but i think you can almost always compile things without bugs and without causing lags. The one/team programming should be that advanced to fix even things like that.
The little things in the game are the things to make that up. All those realistic feature in eve e.g. the missiles with their parabolic and recalculated flight path if the target is moving or not.... are features why i decided to play eve and not another game. That's why i would say it is a bug! Blink

CC.
So you have experience dealing with lag when there are 30K+ people logged into the same shard at the same time?
I think you are grossly oversimplifying the issue.

I appreciate what you want, to a certain degree I also want it, but I am just saying the technical limitations of the reality of the situation makes it very difficult and most likely not a wise use of time. The bandwidth and processing power are simply not available.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Cecilla Rui
Edge of Existence
#19 - 2015-03-20 00:15:59 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:

So you have experience dealing with lag when there are 30K+ people logged into the same shard at the same time?
I think you are grossly oversimplifying the issue.

I appreciate what you want, to a certain degree I also want it, but I am just saying the technical limitations of the reality of the situation makes it very difficult and most likely not a wise use of time. The bandwidth and processing power are simply not available.


I agree with that point.
If this issue is only caused due to lags, i m actually fine with it because that would be another rubric. But if that happens randomly sometimes without dependance to lags it would be a little blemish for such a good implemented game.

CC.
Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-03-20 00:27:16 UTC
One would think that you warp when the velocity component in the intended direction of travel reaches the required fraction of max speed (dot product of your velocity vector with unit vector pointing to warp destination). Maybe that is too physics-y though, who knows what the code actually does.
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