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Sojourn: The Amarr

Author
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#141 - 2015-03-19 01:02:34 UTC
U'tah Arareb wrote:
it should be noted that Nauplius, acknowledged by the Empire as a Heretic, in no way speaks for the Orthodoxy.

Got that.
Bourbon Limoges
Doomheim
#142 - 2015-03-19 03:44:09 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
I do appreciate your concern, but ... well, even if bullying were his aim, it's not like it's going to let up.

This is the IGS. As much as I enjoy it, it's sort of a wilderness. Better that I grow a thick hide and sharp teeth than that I have to be protected all the time.


A cult of "immortal" capsuleers develops an implausible algebra of human worth, segregating untold billions, but are to be considered the victims when called on their ignorance? You are correct, Toady Apologist. It is unlikely to let up. While the Amarrians are born under the influence of their Great Golden Space Noodle and cannot help themselves, you have voluntarily chosen to rationalize degrees of humanity according to a nonsensical superstitious scheme while (presumably) knowing how to count.

No, cultists, taking two steps toward infinity does not bring you closer than someone who has taken a single step - or no steps, or even stepped backward. Perhaps your Toady Apologist will explain it to you when she remembers how to distinguish between even and odd numbers. At one point, the faithful of various religions believed that humility in the face of the Divine was a great virtue. Now, the Great Golden Space Noodle's faithful add up all the imagined virtues in the Indeterminate steps across their pin heads - and consider themselves very Virtuous, indeed.
Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution
#143 - 2015-03-19 04:07:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Vizage
My point and case Ms. Jenneth.

Unfortunately Mr. Limoges is so blinded by his self-Righteous belief he has failed to realize he is preaching to the choir. (The double irony of the particular turn of phrase incredibly delightful in this case.)

In either fact, Ms. Jenneth has multiple times now stated she is examining Amarrian culture as an entirely socio/anthropological practice, she has outwardly stated she is not of the Amarrian faith nor, did she plan to convert. So it's rather unclear who exactly you are speaking to Mr. Limoges.

Perhaps to the general audience. In which case might I suggest creating your own thread for your insult laced musing, rather than polluting what has been upto this point, a rather insightful examination into a culture that has at least from my perspective pulled back from the larger cluster-culter of New Eden.

Many of us are genuinely interested in learning from Ms. Jenneth's journey regardless of belief or faith.

-K. Amsel
Bourbon Limoges
Doomheim
#144 - 2015-03-19 04:16:25 UTC
One pseudo intellectual racist hack is often interested in another's "journey."
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#145 - 2015-03-19 04:26:13 UTC
Ah, he's doubling down. I see.

If he has nothing interesting to say, Ms. Amsel, I'll just ignore him. I gather it won't be the first time I've had to tune someone out.

Though it will be instructive to see his reaction if I wind up traveling to the Federation at some point.
Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution
#146 - 2015-03-19 04:33:40 UTC
Bourbon Limoges wrote:
One pseudo intellectual racist hack is often interested in another's "journey."


Please continue, I suspect it will only take another post or two to completely marginalize yourself amongst the capsuleer community.

You clearly know nothing about me, or what I do.

-K.Amsel
Bourbon Limoges
Doomheim
#147 - 2015-03-19 04:40:32 UTC
Vizage wrote:
You clearly know nothing about me, or what I do.


The less I know about the likes of you, the better.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#148 - 2015-03-19 20:31:45 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Entry Four

One term I've run across a couple times, lately: "subhuman." This, it turns out, is maybe a case of the universal translator not getting all the nuances across.

"Subhuman" is one of those words that strikes a heathen foreigner like me, on first hearing, as a slur. It maybe doesn't help that it seems to be mostly used by the most conservative of the faithful, who seemingly don't much care whether foreigners take offense or not.

It turns out that it's a sort of ... term of art? At least in certain circles.

It doesn't mean "less than human," or even "less-human."

Rather, it means, essentially, "lesser human," or "lower human," one who is not of the elect, the Amarr.

This might not be all that much more comforting, being as most of the orthodox seem to believe such beings stand condemned before God by default, and will be judged harshly, and cast from God's kingdom in the hereafter into whatever torments await.

It's apparently not intended to be a slight on our status as "humans," though.


I have only heard two people using that terminology.

It never was said in any laudatory fashion.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#149 - 2015-03-19 23:23:50 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Entry Four

One term I've run across a couple times, lately: "subhuman." This, it turns out, is maybe a case of the universal translator not getting all the nuances across.

"Subhuman" is one of those words that strikes a heathen foreigner like me, on first hearing, as a slur. It maybe doesn't help that it seems to be mostly used by the most conservative of the faithful, who seemingly don't much care whether foreigners take offense or not.

It turns out that it's a sort of ... term of art? At least in certain circles.

It doesn't mean "less than human," or even "less-human."

Rather, it means, essentially, "lesser human," or "lower human," one who is not of the elect, the Amarr.

This might not be all that much more comforting, being as most of the orthodox seem to believe such beings stand condemned before God by default, and will be judged harshly, and cast from God's kingdom in the hereafter into whatever torments await.

It's apparently not intended to be a slight on our status as "humans," though.


I have only heard two people using that terminology.

It never was said in any laudatory fashion.


It wouldn't be, would it?

It seems to be essentially synonymous with "heathen," plus a pile of theological and existential implications.

It seems to be more a technical term than a slur, but it's certainly not complimentary. In the eyes of orthodox Amarr, it seems we heathens are not exactly admirable people.

What's to admire about the fallen and presumptively damned?
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#150 - 2015-03-19 23:36:14 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
In the eyes of orthodox Amarr, it seems we heathens are not exactly admirable people.

What's to admire about the fallen and presumptively damned?


For forty millennia we struggled in the desert.
Time of infinity to grief our misgivings.
Time of eternity to stray without God's guidance.
One can repent and pray for forgiveness.
But true meekness is one that has penetrated and laid its roots in the very heart of a man.
The stars above will not weep for us parting.
The air we breathe won't notice our disappearance.
The dirt of the earth will embrace our decadence.
Only in God can we thrive and grow.
Only in God.

- Kuria 4:23
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#151 - 2015-03-19 23:55:37 UTC
The times I've heard the term "sub-human" directed at myself or other non-Amarrians it seemed very clear that it was intended as an epithet, a slur, a racially charged insult. I rather doubt that the bigots who use this term attempt to parse, interpret or intellectualize it as Pilot Jenneth does.

One may dress a pig in fine silks, tape a diploma to its back and sprinkle it with perfume but, the fact remains that underneath it all one is still looking at a pig.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#152 - 2015-03-20 00:40:35 UTC
One ... question I do have on this subject.

I've learned since my initial posting that for many Amarr, "lesser" status is not lifted, even on conversion. There seems to be some disagreement about it, however.

There's the version that claims only the True Amarr are the elect, and the rest of us are "subhumans" whether or not we've been Reclaimed. That seems to be (1) the sort most likely to use the term and also (2) the sort Pilot Rella is speaking of.

Then there's the option that the "elect" include the Amarrian faithful, generally, and only heathens are "subhuman."

Does the second group use that terminology, though?
U'tah Arareb
Doomheim
#153 - 2015-03-20 00:51:20 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
One ... question I do have on this subject.

I've learned since my initial posting that for many Amarr, "lesser" status is not lifted, even on conversion. There seems to be some disagreement about it, however.

There's the version that claims only the True Amarr are the elect, and the rest of us are "subhumans" whether or not we've been Reclaimed. That seems to be (1) the sort most likely to use the term and also (2) the sort Pilot Rella is speaking of.

Then there's the option that the "elect" include the Amarrian faithful, generally, and only heathens are "subhuman."

Does the second group use that terminology, though?


I'll try to again explain this as best I can... the slur "sub-human" is a mistranslation of another Amarrian word
in it's proper context the original word is not meant to be insulting.

Unfortunately, there are those who will use this bastardized version of the word to wound or insult..
for that I am sorry.

Amarrians, are not perfect, not yet.. but we do believe we are closer to reclamation with God .
Our very holy Imperial emblem symbolizes this fact as the parts , while close , are not complete.

Were we perfect, the circle would be complete, it isn't.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#154 - 2015-03-20 00:59:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
U'tah Arareb wrote:
I'll try to again explain this as best I can... the slur "sub-human" is a mistranslation of another Amarrian word
in it's proper context the original word is not meant to be insulting.

Unfortunately, there are those who will use this bastardized version of the word to wound or insult..
for that I am sorry.

Amarrians, are not perfect, not yet.. but we do believe we are closer to reclamation with God .
Our very holy Imperial emblem symbolizes this fact as the parts , while close , are not complete.

Were we perfect, the circle would be complete, it isn't.

Respectfully, Ms. Arareb, this is ... a difficult topic, as you can no doubt imagine. Please forgive my difficulties.

Is it ... possible to provide a better translation? ... I know we didn't find one before ...

Also, is the original term necessarily tied to blood? Or is it ... just a matter of being unreclaimed?
U'tah Arareb
Doomheim
#155 - 2015-03-20 01:16:20 UTC
I'm not Clergy but I can try, the half of the circle representing "humanity" apart from god.. with the arms down...

That's the symbol for the word.. it is a state of loss and incompleteness.

the further it is separated from it's other part with the arms up and triangle base which translates "God" , the lower.. more desperate it is.

If by blood you mean race... only in respect to the fact that Amarrian culture has the singular focus of closing that gap... Reclaimation.

Other races do not have that as a core basis.

Again I'm no priestess, so.. this is my feeble attempt to explain .
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#156 - 2015-03-20 01:22:47 UTC
U'tah Arareb wrote:
I'm not Clergy but I can try, the half of the circle representing "humanity" apart from god.. with the arms down...

That's the symbol for the word.. it is a state of loss and incompleteness.

the further it is separated from it's other part with the arms up and triangle base which translates "God" , the lower.. more desperate it is.

If by blood you mean race... only in respect to the fact that Amarrian culture has the singular focus of closing that gap... Reclaimation.

Other races do not have that as a core basis.

Again I'm no priestess, so.. this is my feeble attempt to explain .

Thank you, Ms. Arareb.

Apologies for ... putting you in that sort of position, and I appreciate you humoring me, regardless.

Respectfully, there does seem to be some disagreement within Amarrian society on this score. I'll ... take more time to try and understand the issues properly before I make more ignorant remarks, though.
Bourbon Limoges
Doomheim
#157 - 2015-03-20 01:47:12 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:
I rather doubt that the bigots who use this term attempt to parse, interpret or intellectualize it as Pilot Jenneth does.

One may dress a pig in fine silks, tape a diploma to its back and sprinkle it with perfume but, the fact remains that underneath it all one is still looking at a pig.



It is that and and more. To rationalize the bigotries of a racist cult while on "sojourn" (echo echo echo) propagates the bigotries of a racist cult. Arrest, execution, and police brutality are the most obvious demons of social justice. What this Pilot Jenneth does, however, is the festering demon of rot that besets social just from within.

The Blood Raider is direct in his superstitious hatred. He is on one side, the family of Man is on the other. The lines are clear.

Descend the Sojourner (echo echo echo) on ivory steps. The lines are not clear. Those who know a racist cultist on sight will not know that the Sojourner is propagating the belief structure of a racist cult. She gets in. And what will she say!? "What you people need to understand is... ah... the Amarr have 'reasons' to believe as they do. Ah... studying those reasons is 'valuable.' We will ah... 'learn' something. We must 'compromise' with hatred to ah... move forward."

Doesn't it sound so Beautiful? Doesn't it sound so Enlightened? The bigotry propagates. The cause of social justice weakens. The victims of the cult are now not only the victims of the cult, but they are the victims of the Sojourner. Wait for it!

"We must tolerate intolerance, or we are as bad as they."

Yes, aside from millennia of slavery and genocide, every bit as bad. How many times has the pretentious bullshit of "tolerate intolerance" been advanced in some way shape or form by toady apologists for oppression? Too many times to count. Yes, still less than infinity. Every single time the pretentious bullshit of "tolerate intolerance" has ever been put forward, without fail, every single time it has been put forward by a pseudo intellectual racist hack.
U'tah Arareb
Doomheim
#158 - 2015-03-20 01:55:02 UTC
Mr. Limoges,


have you met Diana Kim?

It occurs to me you would make very fast.. well friends isn't the word.
Bourbon Limoges
Doomheim
#159 - 2015-03-20 02:19:04 UTC
You have made a catastrophic error, Racist Cultist. Do you understand what will happen to your toady apologist's pretentious "sojourn" if it becomes a test of Obsidian Eagle Scout Third Class Bourbon Limoges' ability to concede several of the foundations to Mademoiselle Kim's anger, while retaining the focus on the consequences of your genocidal superstitions?

There will be nothing left of it but Obsidian Eagle Scout Third Class Bourbon Limoges and Mademoiselle Kim.

I have never called the Caldari undeserving of the full dignity and rights of Man. I have never advocated the enslavement of an entire people. The Federation commits terrible atrocities. Those are subject to political review. They are subject to application of law when the guilty have been humbled. However unlikely it may seem now, it is possible for the Federation and State to reconcile their differences and live together in peace.

The atrocities of your cult derive from your savage Divine. Your savage Divine is subject to no review.

You blame "translators" for the "unfortunate" connotations of your racist ideology. But the consequences of your racist ideology are not in the words. They are in the continuing millennia of slavery and genocide that will not dissipate just because you have found a pseudo intellectual hack to rationalize and reason on your racism.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#160 - 2015-03-20 02:41:16 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
One ... question I do have on this subject.

I've learned since my initial posting that for many Amarr, "lesser" status is not lifted, even on conversion. There seems to be some disagreement about it, however.

There's the version that claims only the True Amarr are the elect, and the rest of us are "subhumans" whether or not we've been Reclaimed. That seems to be (1) the sort most likely to use the term and also (2) the sort Pilot Rella is speaking of.

Then there's the option that the "elect" include the Amarrian faithful, generally, and only heathens are "subhuman."

Does the second group use that terminology, though?


I've not heard "the second group" use it. It is not a common word used even among conservatives.

The True Amarr are God's Chosen. The rest of us, by our sin of turning from God, are impure. We can return to God, but our past crimes are only forgiven, not forgotten.

There are those who think that any kind of acknowledgement of natural inequalities among people is an insult, and so it doesn't matter if one says subhuman, lesser, impure, or whatever as anyone that wishes to believe that all people are equal will find all of these offensive. But humans are not all equal and in Amarr we do not try to pretend otherwise.