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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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New & Underwhelmed - Your Advice Requested.

Author
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-03-16 21:34:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Stan
Double post, sorry.
Angelicous Prada
Ways and Means Commission
#22 - 2015-03-16 21:49:58 UTC
(no grammar, punc as Im on the crapper)
:)

Just last night a retriever came into our low sec pockets, we landed on him and he began to drop our main recruiters name, who said to come here, there-to our system. we saw no application and proceded to destroy, as we do anyone mining our rocks. we scrammed his pod, i didnt, but there was talk about podding him too(not worth the sec loss on a noob pilot it was concluded) just then we got the application to join. we let him be and I threw him 10m for his troubles.

you had some bad luck with corps, im afraid.
small gangs to learn pvp if thats your thing.

this is now my 3rd corp in 3 yrs.
first was hgh sec carebear with day one vets trying to add spice to their bitter vet life.
it went well for awhile, but personal life issues had me leave the game. they taught me plenty. the high sec war games do stink, however.
the second was a null... in a large alliance.
no love or support there.
this gang currently is pretty tight.
and im learning lots of pvp.

good luck!
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-03-16 22:59:46 UTC
I agree with Ralph, this thread didn't feel at all like "help me what am I doing wrong?" post.

It felt like the guy had already quit and trying to take as many people as he can with him because he can't hack it or not willing to try.

I've been out of EVE uni for a while now but when I joined, yes the queue for interview was long, but when I got in it was worth it. Also you know EVE uni REJECTS people as well? Those people whining and moaning will have been noted and unless presented themselves exceptionally in the interview would have probably been dropped.

My experience of uni was many eager people who wanted to learn and a whole host of veterans who wanted to teach. Why else would anyone join an organisation like this (ok there are other reasons but they are by far the minority).

Just like real university, you take charge of your own learning. Nobody dumps material in your lap, spoonfeeding you like in middle-high school. You join uni because you WANT to learn, you hunger for knowledge.

I've also got nothing but praise for BRAVE as well since I was around when they first started. Their attitude is fantastic and they've grown to become a force to be reckoned with.l

Aside from the two largest learning corps, the OP could have spent more time finding a good corp, maybe the first one isn't for you: why give up there?

Honestly it sounds like he didn't even try.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#24 - 2015-03-16 23:50:25 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

Honestly it sounds like he didn't even try.

there it is really,

Cry"give me a reason not to bother"

Cool"well we need to see some effort"

Cry"BAAAGH, tiz a vets game , good day to you all !"

L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
#25 - 2015-03-17 00:10:11 UTC
Assuming that this post is ever found by some other player:

I can see how someone who has read about the game, girded themselves up with reading prior to starting and told themselves that "they wouldn't be foolish enough to be scammed" etc could arrive at the OPs outlook.

If you saw someone taking an extremely calculated and rational approach to entering a lake, from the swimming folks perspective, the actions would strike onlookers as comical. Practically a magnate for our games 10%.

It could simply be that the OP is a victim of over-thinking a game. If he was calm but guarded when interacting with the first few folk he met in game, it could inspire the most juvenile behaviour said from some.

To any others who may stumble on this post, I would recommend that you:

1. Go ahead and read up on the common scams etc
2. Never give away trust easily, sure ( just remember to properly assess what your Risking, I.e. Pixels... )
3. Don't be the guy showing up to the swimming hole with floaties, goggles and covered in zinc.

At the end of the day, this is a game. Most folk who come across like they 'get-it' as mentioned earlier are quick to embrace that.

As to the bigger corps, I started with Eve uni. Like others I didn't feel a long term fit, however I met others there who I flew with I for some of the most fun times in game. Eve uni also had great channels for finding a longer term fit, with older players still hanging out in recruitment forums for their new corps etc. A Eve uni program is how I first went out to Null as a nubbin and fell in love with the game. I'm sure other organizations have similiar advantages. I would recommend that you not over think the problems with big corps, and focus on the benifits of any you find interesting. Simply put, more people means more opportunity for fun.

Bad guys and good guys.

The quickest way to lose interest in this game is to try and figure it out. Be bold, be reckless and find others that you enjoy playing with.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#26 - 2015-03-17 00:23:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Re: Brave Newbies Inc.

They are a Reddit based community: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bravenewbies
See the sidebar there for other BRAVE corps. It also tells you how to apply.

There also is the generic EVE reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Eve
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2015-03-17 00:45:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Ned Thomas
Just to point out on BNI:

You do not need a Reddit account to join, although you will be heavily persuaded to create one after you join. In my experience, it takes about 4 to 7 days for them to get around to accepting an app. This isn't because of any requirement or shunning or anything like that, it's just that the recruiters are 1) overwhelmed and B) lazy, with a possibility of Gamma) dunk. Have a little patience with them.

And like most folks, they don't like too many people just chatting it up in their public channel, so they tend to shoot that down.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#28 - 2015-03-17 00:58:07 UTC
Ignacio Itovuo wrote:
Thank you to everyone who responded to my post.

After reading Black Drake's response, I've concluded that this simply not the right game for me. I'm self-motivated enough, but, her analysis confirmed my own suspicion that this is a game for vets. I couldn't keep playing and investing time simply on the hope that, eventually, at some point, sometime down the road, I'd be worthy of more than ganking.

Thank you to all.

II


I'm very glad I never listened to any such 'advice', I'd not have lasted the whopping ~9 months I've spent, so far, in EVE.

The learning curve in this game is steep. By and large, EVE truly hates new players. However, there is hope. Find yourself a decent corp to join and you'll be earning your way onto shiny killmails in no time flat. Any corp that tells you to 'catch up' is not a good corp. A good corp will help you out. A good corp will have members who are prepared to help teach you the manual ship skills you'll need. A good corp will make sure you're never without a T1 frigate to bring along on corp Ops or Roams.

Sadly, finding a good corp can be something of a lottery.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2015-03-17 01:09:32 UTC
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
Sadly, finding a good corp can be something of a lottery.


Finding a good corp is a matter of research and effort. I can't win the lottery just by studying and trying real hard.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#30 - 2015-03-17 02:41:27 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Ignacio Itovuo wrote:
Thank you to everyone who responded to my post.

After reading Black Drake's response, I've concluded that this simply not the right game for me. I'm self-motivated enough, but, her analysis confirmed my own suspicion that this is a game for vets. I couldn't keep playing and investing time simply on the hope that, eventually, at some point, sometime down the road, I'd be worthy of more than ganking.

Thank you to all.

II

Send me a mail, and lets talk. I won't invite you to my corp, but I know plenty of people that are looking for players that are in positions similar to yours. I am very disillusioned with larger corporations after my two stints with E-Uni, and one with brave alliance.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2015-03-17 02:43:54 UTC
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
Ignacio Itovuo wrote:
Thank you to everyone who responded to my post.

After reading Black Drake's response, I've concluded that this simply not the right game for me. I'm self-motivated enough, but, her analysis confirmed my own suspicion that this is a game for vets. I couldn't keep playing and investing time simply on the hope that, eventually, at some point, sometime down the road, I'd be worthy of more than ganking.

Thank you to all.

II

Send me a mail, and lets talk. I won't invite you to my corp, but I know plenty of people that are looking for players that are in positions similar to yours.


He's gone, m8. Best to just let him die.

I'll try to save anyone who I think can be saved, no matter how far gone. This guy is a gonner.
Ignacio Itovuo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2015-03-17 03:45:51 UTC

Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
This one isn't going to listen Sophie,
save your efforts for someone who isn't just looking for confirmation of their preconceived notions.

Notice how none of the ncq&a regulars bothered with this one...

ones attitude in eve will dictate much of how the community responds ,
you can see this with how we react to your earnest enthusiasim (it's adorable) ,
reminds me of how I felt when I "got it" and I dare say others likely feel the same.

The op on the other hand was looking for someone (anyone actually) to say yeah, it's not worth the effort, you can give up.
and pieced it together from something else that was said.


I would love it if he came back and made me eat those words, genuinely I would but I doubt we will see him again.


Hell, the OP didn't wait for someone to say it's not worth the effort. Someone said "there's effort involved" and OP decided that meant he would never have a chance.

Exactly my point, black didn't actually say what he was looking for but took that away from it anyway.

Basically this is the mental gymnastics of apathy done publicly to save their pride

Iv done it myself from time to time (not with eve but I'm fairly apathetic about a lot of stuff irl so I know it when I see it)


I came back to this post regretful of the fact that I'd posted the conclusion I drew from Black Drake's post and not the underlying reasoning. Regretful solely because it would read like 'Black Drake sent me away" when she didn't. Even though I'm just one new player, I still felt morally compelled to address it.

I originally spent an hour responding and trying to explain the tension between new players and vets from a new player's perspective, fleshing out how, for all the people who had camped me based solely on my account age (I asked) in .7 space during off-peak hours when it was just me and them in system, I hadn't met the nice players who wanted to share their love of the game with me. I've honestly been stalked by people whose calculations weren't based on my ship, but what skills I could have fairly trained in the amount of time I had been in the game. You can rationalize and put it in real world terms (e.g. exploiting the naive/inexperienced), but when I combined those experiences, the role of new players as fodder, AND Black Drake's comment that the best I could do is, essentially, continue training and learning (e.g. become a vet), led me to the conclusion that this is a game for vets. And from this I concluded that if I was 'underwhelmed' as a newbie, that it would be foolish to pour additional time into it hoping for a different outcome when I have so little invested from the outset. This isn't a financial investment. Playing a game with the hope that I will enjoy it at some point, or will have the opportunity to become the ganker, doesn't make sense to me. That's the perspective of a new player looking forward and not a vet reflecting on or justifying the investments already made (sunk cost trap).

In my longer post, I kept butting up against the perceived imbalance and questioned what vets could do to retain more new players. That is precisely when I stopped, wrote the shorter post, and ended there. The environment is what it is. At two weeks in, I can take it or leave it, but it's not my job to come in and tell older players what they could do to retain newer players (like me) or speak to greater schemes. For all I know, the game is better is off without players like myself. There was a lot of humility and self-reflection in that longer post, but, when I reached my conclusion, there was no point in drawing it out further. I didn't come here looking to be convinced either way.

I WILL offer one piece of advice generally: Playing alone as a new player can make this a MUCH more serious game. Another poster commented that vets take this seriously? New players will take it seriously, too, especially if they tether assert accumulation and retention to their long-term happiness (which I imagine is what makes ganking so fun). I was in a different position, somewhat. I came into this game after hearing about that Bandwiddth(?) betrayal and hearing the recording. I walked into this very much wanting to be the guy who would be 'giddy' over that catastrophic loss of resources. And if I were on vent/TS/mumble with people who were all being ganked, instead of just rolling my eyes, I might perceive it all differently. You never know. Being the new player being ganked by someone, then having them want to chat and friendly is REALLY disconcerting. It forces a LOT of consideration about how people consider this game. Ganking and griefing that might be born of real animosity in other games, is just a passing amusement here with no ill will intended.

The reason I'm responding to your post in particular, despite a decision to discontinue, is I want to ask you to take it easier on new players. You accused me of self-fulfilling prophecy and confirmation-seeking, and I kindly submit that you did the same to me ("look who didn't take this seriously from the start. They/we were right all along.") It's not that I was looking to have my suspicions confirmed. I simply reached a conclusion through my response, and mistakenly attributed it to Black Drake instead of the thoughts her post inspired. You don't have to agree with my conclusion, you're certainly free to conclude that I don't 'get it', but don't write us off so easily.

Anywho, thanks for all the feedback, folks. I hope this post cures the other one. Maybe I'll come back in a few months and try this again. Maybe I'll come back through in a few months and give this another try.

II





Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#33 - 2015-03-17 03:53:16 UTC
Ignacio Itovuo wrote:

Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Ned Thomas wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
This one isn't going to listen Sophie,
save your efforts for someone who isn't just looking for confirmation of their preconceived notions.

Notice how none of the ncq&a regulars bothered with this one...

ones attitude in eve will dictate much of how the community responds ,
you can see this with how we react to your earnest enthusiasim (it's adorable) ,
reminds me of how I felt when I "got it" and I dare say others likely feel the same.

The op on the other hand was looking for someone (anyone actually) to say yeah, it's not worth the effort, you can give up.
and pieced it together from something else that was said.


I would love it if he came back and made me eat those words, genuinely I would but I doubt we will see him again.


Hell, the OP didn't wait for someone to say it's not worth the effort. Someone said "there's effort involved" and OP decided that meant he would never have a chance.

Exactly my point, black didn't actually say what he was looking for but took that away from it anyway.

Basically this is the mental gymnastics of apathy done publicly to save their pride

Iv done it myself from time to time (not with eve but I'm fairly apathetic about a lot of stuff irl so I know it when I see it)


I came back to this post regretful of the fact that I'd posted the conclusion I drew from Black Drake's post and not the underlying reasoning. Regretful solely because it would read like 'Black Drake sent me away" when she didn't. Even though I'm just one new player, I still felt morally compelled to address it.

I originally spent an hour responding and trying to explain the tension between new players and vets from a new player's perspective, fleshing out how, for all the people who had camped me based solely on my account age (I asked) in .7 space during off-peak hours when it was just me and them in system, I hadn't met the nice players who wanted to share their love of the game with me. I've honestly been stalked by people whose calculations weren't based on my ship, but what skills I could have fairly trained in the amount of time I had been in the game. You can rationalize and put it in real world terms (e.g. exploiting the naive/inexperienced), but when I combined those experiences, the role of new players as fodder, AND Black Drake's comment that the best I could do is, essentially, continue training and learning (e.g. become a vet), led me to the conclusion that this is a game for vets. And from this I concluded that if I was 'underwhelmed' as a newbie, that it would be foolish to pour additional time into it hoping for a different outcome when I have so little invested from the outset. This isn't a financial investment. Playing a game with the hope that I will enjoy it at some point, or will have the opportunity to become the ganker, doesn't make sense to me. That's the perspective of a new player looking forward and not a vet reflecting on or justifying the investments already made (sunk cost trap).

In my longer post, I kept butting up against the perceived imbalance and questioned what vets could do to retain more new players. That is precisely when I stopped, wrote the shorter post, and ended there. The environment is what it is. At two weeks in, I can take it or leave it, but it's not my job to come in and tell older players what they could do to retain newer players (like me) or speak to greater schemes. For all I know, the game is better is off without players like myself. There was a lot of humility and self-reflection in that longer post, but, when I reached my conclusion, there was no point in drawing it out further. I didn't come here looking to be convinced either way.

I WILL offer one piece of advice generally: Playing alone as a new player can make this a MUCH more serious game. Another poster commented that vets take this seriously? New players will take it seriously, too, especially if they tether assert accumulation and retention to their long-term happiness (which I imagine is what makes ganking so fun). I was in a different position, somewhat. I came into this game after hearing about that Bandwiddth(?) betrayal and hearing the recording. I walked into this very much wanting to be the guy who would be 'giddy' over that catastrophic loss of resources. And if I were on vent/TS/mumble with people who were all being ganked, instead of just rolling my eyes, I might perceive it all differently. You never know. Being the new player being ganked by someone, then having them want to chat and friendly is REALLY disconcerting. It forces a LOT of consideration about how people consider this game. Ganking and griefing that might be born of real animosity in other games, is just a passing amusement here with no ill will intended.

The reason I'm responding to your post in particular, despite a decision to discontinue, is I want to ask you to take it easier on new players. You accused me of self-fulfilling prophecy and confirmation-seeking, and I kindly submit that you did the same to me ("look who didn't take this seriously from the start. They/we were right all along.") It's not that I was looking to have my suspicions confirmed. I simply reached a conclusion through my response, and mistakenly attributed it to Black Drake instead of the thoughts her post inspired. You don't have to agree with my conclusion, you're certainly free to conclude that I don't 'get it', but don't write us off so easily.

Anywho, thanks for all the feedback, folks. I hope this post cures the other one. Maybe I'll come back in a few months and try this again. Maybe I'll come back through in a few months and give this another try.

II






reserving for a well thought out response (im farr too tiered to give this a proper account currently )
Radical Intaki
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-03-17 06:36:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Radical Intaki
I think your problem may be being to open, Im new, I never asked for a handout, asked plenty of questions, I have never been ganked once yet(although I lost quite a few ships to jumping up in missions/learning), I talk, meet people, but I dont actively pursue people keep your head down while being social. I havent had a remotely close experience to you. Meet people in chat rooms and not open space/close proximity either. Dont join any corp to, talk to people, people will gladly guide you until you meet minimum requirements even, and let you have access to corporate channels without being a member.
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#35 - 2015-03-17 07:33:34 UTC
Ignacio Itovuo wrote:
Being the new player being ganked by someone, then having them want to chat and friendly is REALLY disconcerting. It forces a LOT of consideration about how people consider this game. Ganking and griefing that might be born of real animosity in other games, is just a passing amusement here with no ill will intended.

Anywho, thanks for all the feedback, folks. I hope this post cures the other one. Maybe I'll come back in a few months and try this again. Maybe I'll come back through in a few months and give this another try.

II


Thing is here that you and many others make an assumption that EVE is an entirely PvE based game while in truth it's mainly based on losing ship at steady pace and then buying them off from the market.
Also difference in EVE is that you have actually something to gain from ganking someone, though newbs rarely have anything of value.
In other games ganking is just that killing because you can and serves only as a nuisance to other players unless tied to arena rankings and other crap.

Ovv Topik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2015-03-17 11:14:38 UTC
Ignacio Itovuo wrote:
Thank you to everyone who responded to my post.

After reading Black Drake's response, I've concluded that this simply not the right game for me. I'm self-motivated enough, but, her analysis confirmed my own suspicion that this is a game for vets. I couldn't keep playing and investing time simply on the hope that, eventually, at some point, sometime down the road, I'd be worthy of more than ganking.

Thank you to all.

II

LoL. That is the opposite of what Black Drake said! You didnt come here looking for advise. You came to say you are right, and the entire EvE community is wrong.

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Ovv Topik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2015-03-17 11:19:35 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Black Drake wrote:
Not to be rude but a lot of older players don't want to waste their time on someone who might be gone a few weeks down the line. EVE is notorious for the amount of players that drop out after playing for only a short period of time, never to return.

The best advice I can give you is to just keep learning about the game on your own, read some of the many guides out there, continue asking and researching things on the forum for example.

If you were looking for players to join your corp, you'd only want those that look like a potential long term investment to join. So by doing the things mentioned above you prove to a recruiter that you have potential.

EVE is a strictly non hand-holding game/community. You have to do and learn things for yourself before you find willing people wanting to invest time and effort to help you progress further.

When I first started playing EVE, I wanted to know everything about the game. I read for hours and hours, asked questions when I couldn't find an answer myself, I did all this not because it was expected but because I wanted to.

When It came time to look for my own Corp I knew what I wanted and what I'd get out of it before joining, didn't need to ask "what are you going to do for me" because that's not how it works. I wanted to be a part of something bigger, I wanted to be the guy that people came to for help or advice. To be part of a team.

Also you will tend to find that the larger a corp gets the less "personal" the atmosphere becomes. If a corp has ten thousand members and you're number ten thousand and one, it's unlikely that you will find the camaraderie that you'd experience in a corp of say 20 or so people.


such bad advice and most of that is not true whatsoever.

I joined faction warfare very young, around 900k sp, and it was great people helped me do stuff, fc's were understanding that there was noobs in fleets. i had great fun, then i moved to null and joined a pirate corp of around 40 players or so, cant really complain i enjoy the game and whenever i need help there is always someone to tell me what to do.

you dont need to give up based on that advice

Black Drake is not wrong at all. She's taking about the attitude of the new player.
One dude will show up and say: "OK what do I do?'.
Another player will show up and say: " I've been trying to succeed at this, but failing due to this. What do I do?"

You know the first player will be gone in 2 weeks. The latter, Just gets it!

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2015-03-17 11:42:33 UTC
What exactly is a "game for vets"?

Every game is for vets as you put it. You're new, you're not good. No problem. With practice, you get better. EVE's learning curve and depth are (in)famously huge. That's part of the appeal.

Name me a game "for newbies". I'm genuinely curious.

Grrr.

Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2015-03-17 11:53:43 UTC
Ignacio Itovuo wrote:
the best I could do is, essentially, continue training and learning (e.g. become a vet)


I'm trying to think of a game where you don't have to learn or train yourself in order to be better at it. The best I can come up with is Candyland. This "become a vet" line is self-defeating. Hell, I've only been here a year and I'm still pretty clueless on a good majority of the game (I cannot wrap my head around industry P) but that doesn't stop me from dancing around in dangerous areas with a smile on my face everyday.

As to being camped, ganked, hunted, etc. there are ways to get out of that even as a one day old player. It has nothing to do with experience and everything to do with willingness to overcome it. I can't offer more specifics than that because I don't know the specifics of your situation. Just note that if someone is doing something to you in game, there are ways that you (the player, not the character) can counter it, overcome it, or avoid it.
Ignacio Itovuo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2015-03-17 11:59:42 UTC
Baneken wrote:
Ignacio Itovuo wrote:
Being the new player being ganked by someone, then having them want to chat and friendly is REALLY disconcerting. It forces a LOT of consideration about how people consider this game. Ganking and griefing that might be born of real animosity in other games, is just a passing amusement here with no ill will intended.

Anywho, thanks for all the feedback, folks. I hope this post cures the other one. Maybe I'll come back in a few months and try this again. Maybe I'll come back through in a few months and give this another try.

II


Thing is here that you and many others make an assumption that EVE is an entirely PvE based game while in truth it's mainly based on losing ship at steady pace and then buying them off from the market.
Also difference in EVE is that you have actually something to gain from ganking someone, though newbs rarely have anything of value.
In other games ganking is just that killing because you can and serves only as a nuisance to other players unless tied to arena rankings and other crap.



Careful, there. I'm not assuming that Eve is a PVE game. Truth be told, I take it to the opposite extreme. I think of Eve as PVP game that is supported by PVE and economic elements. Everything that is not PVP exists to support PVP. As relevant to what you've quoted (a passing consideration supporting a larger point), I was merely opining that the casual nature of both griefing and ganking COULD be disconcerting, and even seem a little schizo to a new player because a player will gank them in highsec, get summarily smoked by Concord, then start a convo. In my experience, those conversations were ALWAYS pleasant. And therein lay my single assumption -- that all such conversations are pleasant. Maybe they're fishing to see if their victim would blow a gasket? I have no idea. But in my case, being ganked for lulz and approached for a friendly convo, while anticlimactic (I like my jerks to be villainous), was otherwise pleasant. I was simply musing that your average newbie might require some acclimation. Well, there's two assumptions. Anyway, what you've quoted was a minor point.

Well, friends, I'm going to leave it here. Thanks for all of the feedback. Best wishes and safe flying.

II