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The Nestor - in review

First post
Author
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#21 - 2015-03-13 22:10:56 UTC
Petrified wrote:
One other thing to note, if CoV Ops Cloaking were added, the value more than likely would increase on the ship.

Entirely possible. As it now stands, they could increase the BPC drop because it's selling quite a bit higher than the other Faction battleships.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Gaan Cathal
Angry Mustellid
#22 - 2015-03-14 02:57:35 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:

I am struggling to understand how the presence of a Nestor in a fleet adds much more than say, another guardian in terms of remote repping power.

It is limited to 25km range, cannot move anywhere near as quickly and takes full damage from large weapons in a way that a guardian does not. In addition, it cannot meaningfully contribute the to the guardian cap chain, or generate sufficient cap to go without it - so surely it's a hindrance to the guardians?

Anecdotally, in w-space I have faced many fleets containing guardians - they are the norm, but never once encountered a fleet containing a Nestor as part of its logistics support.


As someone who has flown in a fleet using a Nestor, it works. Fourteen Guardians and a Nestor, which back-of-the-napkin maths told us was approximately 18 Guardians effective. Cap is a nonissue once you have sufficient floating feed from the Guards. Range limitations force it to bunch up with the other Battleships but...it's a Battleship, it wouldn't keep up with the Guardians anyway.

Of course given the nature of Wormholes and mass, a Logistics Battleship best suited to scaling up Logi wings for medium-sized Battleship fleets is possibly not an ideal role for a SoE ship, but there we go.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#23 - 2015-03-14 11:02:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
the nestor is one of the strongest faction battle ships in its element and no it does not need a cloak

Emphasis mine. So what exactly is its element then? It's certainly not high-sec PvE, and you never see these roaming around low-sec. The lack of a Covert Ops cloak precludes seriously consideration in wormhole space, so I'm just curious where it's one of the strongest faction battleships. It's certainly the most expensive...




station games and low class WH where you can't fit a carrier


its use in station games is obvious both as neutral logi and a way to refit in space at the same time

in low class WH its reps are amazing and again its SMB lets fleets refit in fight letting ships (normally T3s) refit from full DPS to full tank once they have become primary to a logi role when the nestor(s) can't keep up


you don't need a cov ops cloak to move around you can take the sig penalty or remove a calnavy cloak if you have a sister nestor just before the fight. Can you be seen with it b4 you want to? yes you can that is a sacrifice you give up for its usefulness in a fight

as to why it is the most expensive this is mostly because of how good the stratios is and how high of a demand for it is out there

currently you get more ISK for your SOE LP buying and selling strats over the nestor so there are fewer nestors on the market
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#24 - 2015-03-14 12:23:29 UTC
Well, OP's idea is quite interesting. Finally one that is not about giving it a larger SMB or allow it to bridge.

I picture a possible alternative. What if it had the same cloaking capabilities of Black Ops? No covops cloak, but ability to move cloaked easily and instawarp.

In addition to either one of those, I'd swap the hacking bonus by it receiving bonus to shield RR too. Maybe it would help it on W-Space fleets, where one must adapt quickly to the environment.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#25 - 2015-03-14 12:49:07 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
the rattlesnake is out-selling it at a rate of 8:1.

This is not a problem. The Rattlesnake is a PvE ship, while the Nestor is a PvP battleship. PvE ships tend to outsell PvP ships, but that does not mean that Nestor is not amazing in what it does. It sees a lot of use in armor fleets in wormholes.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2015-03-14 17:10:48 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
the rattlesnake is out-selling it at a rate of 8:1.

This is not a problem. The Rattlesnake is a PvE ship, while the Nestor is a PvP battleship. PvE ships tend to outsell PvP ships, but that does not mean that Nestor is not amazing in what it does. It sees a lot of use in armor fleets in wormholes.


* I could have replaced the word 'rattlesnake' with any other pirate battleship. They all massively outsell the Nestor.

* I use the rattlesnake for PVP - it's pretty good! - dual XLASB, anti-frigate rapid lights and a buttload of gecko-hurt! It's a fantastic small gang flagship.

* I have never, ever seen a Nestor used in any pvp in any wormhole or low-sec system - and I go looking for trouble on an almost daily basis in wormholes and low-sec. I would be very happy if you could guide me to a cluster of systems where I am likely to see one in action.

In response to the previous post about the Nestor's price - the price of the Nestor is set solely by the price of sisters' LP. It has nothing to do with the power of the ship. The undeniable indicator that the market price is too high is the low sales volume. This is basic economic theory:

A free market will find price equilibrium when prices fall (or rise) to match the utility of the ship in comparison with other options. If the price is too high, ships will not sell. If it is too low, they will sell out. Unfortunately, the Nestor's price is fixed by unrelated factors - the fungible value of SoE loyalty points (which are themselves price-discovered by the utility of the astero, stratios, sisters probes, launchers and (less so) virtue implants).

The fact that the Nestor is not selling is a clear indiction that its utility does not match its price.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross
Unreasonable Bastards
#27 - 2015-03-14 17:18:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Murkar Omaristos
I know this has been brought up before but why don't they make the nestor blops-capable, but with a limited jump/bridge range (and strip the logistics bonuses)? It's already more expensive than a Panther, which is a bit ridiculous.

It's the only ship in the SOE line that doesn't follow suit with the covops theme.

it's silly to pay 1.2bil for a ship hull that's only as effective as 2 guardians, especially when it itself requires cap-chaining support from other a bunch of other guardians in order to function.
LT Alter
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-03-14 17:44:15 UTC
Leave my wonderful nestor alone, thanks.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#29 - 2015-03-14 22:59:33 UTC
LT Alter wrote:
Leave my wonderful nestor alone, thanks.

There's a better than even chance they will.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Lugh Crow-Slave
#30 - 2015-03-14 23:19:42 UTC
Murkar Omaristos wrote:
I know this has been brought up before but why don't they make the nestor blops-capable, but with a limited jump/bridge range (and strip the logistics bonuses)? It's already more expensive than a Panther, which is a bit ridiculous.

It's the only ship in the SOE line that doesn't follow suit with the covops theme.

it's silly to pay 1.2bil for a ship hull that's only as effective as 2 guardians, especially when it itself requires cap-chaining support from other a bunch of other guardians in order to function.



so toss it into another role and strip it of the one it has currently fit well into just because its price is higher than ships in the blop role. one of the great thing about pirate ships is people can fly them w/o needing to train into T2 you want the thing to use a jump drive that's going to add about 100days to it's training
Lugh Crow-Slave
#31 - 2015-03-14 23:21:45 UTC
Komodo Askold wrote:

In addition to either one of those, I'd swap the hacking bonus by it receiving bonus to shield RR too. Maybe it would help it on W-Space fleets, where one must adapt quickly to the environment.



the hacking bonuses are freebies they are not considered in the balancing of the ship
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2015-03-14 23:26:44 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Komodo Askold wrote:

In addition to either one of those, I'd swap the hacking bonus by it receiving bonus to shield RR too. Maybe it would help it on W-Space fleets, where one must adapt quickly to the environment.



the hacking bonuses are freebies they are not considered in the balancing of the ship


If the ship had the ability to move between systems without getting caught on a wormhole they would be excellent for running c4 and c5 relic sites in Foreign systems.

Then the hacking bonus would have some use - to get the hull sections without having to switch out to a frigate.

In this role it could do without the remote armour repair range bonus.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#33 - 2015-03-14 23:41:14 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
In this role it could do without the remote armour repair range bonus.

We asked for a Covert Ops cloak; we got remote reps and a maintenance bay.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-03-14 23:51:24 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
In this role it could do without the remote armour repair range bonus.

We asked for a Covert Ops cloak; we got remote reps and a maintenance bay.


In fairness the Maintenence bay would be useful in w-space - it allows for transition to pvp fit without a mobile depot (which would get shot).

If the ship had some ability traverse wormholes without getting ganked I could accept the lack of covops.

The ship is only unused because you can't get it safely between systems (well, that and the silly price)

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#35 - 2015-03-15 00:13:39 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
In fairness the Maintenence bay would be useful in w-space - it allows for transition to pvp fit without a mobile depot (which would get shot). If the ship had some ability traverse wormholes without getting ganked I could accept the lack of covops.

I was hoping for something unique with that yellow shuttle on the underside. The maintenance bay is probably one of the better ideas. A jump clone bay was something else I recall being floated around. I don't really have a problem with a covert cloak on the Nestor. It may be agile, but it's ridonculously slow.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

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