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Can't believe Off Grid Boosting is still around. Srsly?

First post
Author
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#181 - 2015-03-12 22:19:20 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

Put OGBs in killmails. We'll be able to correlate OGB alts with their mains and make smarter decisions about probing down the OGB and killing them before engaging the main.

Let the players solve this problem instead of changing the mechanic.

Put logistics in there aswell and you got a deal!

We might as well with "full disclosure"mails.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#182 - 2015-03-12 22:23:56 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
OGB is akin to docbuffs in SWG were... they were required for participation.


This is how things ended up in Asheron's Call also. All players started using a full set of clothing buffs, resistance buffs, and attribute buffs. So the devs developed all the new PvE content balanced with that in mind. So if you wanted to do PvE, you needed to have all buffs, and you had to rebuff every 30 minutes. And if you wanted to do PvP you needed them as well or you stood no chance. Net effect = giant PITA and lots of down time. No fun at all.

EVE is nowhere near as bad as this of course. But you can already see some areas of PvE where boosts have become pretty much mandatory due to the min-maxing of the players - hisec incursions for example.

People keep mentioning combat probes. What am I supposed to do in hisec? Against say... a player who has an OGB alt and steals my loot in an exploration site? I can't probe their OGB and kill it in hisec. Must I have an OGB alt too then? Or do I need to start running sites with 2x DPS characters to overpower them before they can make full use of their OGB? EVE already has its running joke of "30k accounts online = 15k actual players online". We don't need more alts.

Then there is the actual gameplay of the boosting character. A Command Ship fit for fighting on grid while running one link may be fun. But players love to min-max, so boosting ships usually end up good at boosting and nothing else. This makes them only acceptable as alts.

So... how about a compromise? Only one link allowed on a boosting ship, your sig radius blows up like a MWD when you're running it, and you can't use boosts in hisec.

Twisted
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#183 - 2015-03-12 22:26:05 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Sibyyl wrote:

Put OGBs in killmails. We'll be able to correlate OGB alts with their mains and make smarter decisions about probing down the OGB and killing them before engaging the main.

Let the players solve this problem instead of changing the mechanic.

Put logistics in there aswell and you got a deal!

We might as well with "full disclosure"mails.
I want wife aggro shown on killmails. Would have top Battleclinic rank, along with alcohol.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#184 - 2015-03-12 22:37:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Unezka Turigahl
Unezka Turigahl wrote:

your sig radius blows up like a MWD when you're running it


Hmm... I wonder... what if every active link gives you +100 to your signature radius? This would make you easier to scan down the more links you have running. Would this alone be enough to force OGB alts into becoming on-grid mains? Choosing to run only 1 or 2 links along with a rack of guns/missiles?

But yeah, still need to be banned from hisec.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#185 - 2015-03-12 22:44:48 UTC
Budda Kuha wrote:
I recently bought this toon and returned to EVE after a break due to rl obligations and I was shocked to see that ogb was not only still around but that it has spread like a desease and infested most of lowsec and nullsec even.


Stay tuned on this and other topics, AKA: copious volumes of fecal matter about to impact the rotary atmospheric agitator at a Fanfest near you.

Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#186 - 2015-03-12 22:55:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Unezka Turigahl wrote:
Hmm... I wonder... what if every active link gives you +100 to your signature radius? This would make you easier to scan down the more links you have running. Would this alone be enough to force OGB alts into becoming on-grid mains? Choosing to run only 1 or 2 links along with a rack of guns/missiles?

No, it wouldn't be enough on it's own.

In lowsec a lot of people already sit their links alts on stations and gates. They usually don't have a lot of tank if T3 (but a lot of Command ships are used for links too), but if you shoot them you draw sentry gun fire.

Increasing their sig radius will just put more of them on gates and stations.

That can be easily dealt with by aligning, shooting, warping off and then back again. If they are still there, kill them. But if the player is alert, they'll just move the ship anyway.

But it does nothing for highsec and only makes a difference in nullsec.

Combat probes are good in nullsec, less useful in lowsec because the links ships are relatively easy to find and only useful in highsec if you are willing to suicide gank and the links ship is not on a station (which it most probably is).

We usually send an alt in a rookie ship to shoot the links ship (lowsec roams). When engaged in a fight, the links pilot often doesn't even notice it's just a rookie ship and instantly docks or jumps. Sometimes half their fleet warps to try to protect the links, separating their ships. Doesn't always work, but it works enough to be useful for us.
Irya Boone
The Scope
#187 - 2015-03-13 01:07:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Irya Boone
or we can actually make links an active module >> no auto repeat and very very short cycle


and you can also apply this to cloak too ...


no need to rewrite massive code etc etc just change the attribute of links

and put booster on Km too :)

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#188 - 2015-03-13 01:34:27 UTC
Unezka Turigahl wrote:

Hmm... I wonder... what if every active link gives you +100 to your signature radius? This would make you easier to scan down the more links you have running. Would this alone be enough to force OGB alts into becoming on-grid mains? Choosing to run only 1 or 2 links along with a rack of guns/missiles?

But yeah, still need to be banned from hisec.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, congratulations, you have now killed on grid links. Because you have just bloated on grid link sigs making them vastly easier to kill and lock.

Also there is no reason to ban links from High Sec. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to use links in high sec, just the situation of the neutral OGB needs addressing is all.

Lastly making them not auto cycle is not engaging gameplay. Try doing an hour of gameplay with your guns auto cycle turned off and see how enjoyable it is.
kraken11 jensen
ROOKS AND KRAKENS
Requiem Eternal
#189 - 2015-03-13 09:10:55 UTC
Implants=boost
Links=boost
Drugs=boost
More sp combat wise = boost (an advantage)
.
Just an part off eve,
eve is not fair.
''solo pvp'' ehm, don't expect it to be.
lol,

Btw, did you guys check FT cold 's kill board? he got some really nice kills there :)
Just look

https://zkillboard.com/character/743107009/

(quite a lot off link kills in an relatively short amount off time)

Also, it don't make you bad using the things that can give you an advantage, I suppose you embrace (aspects) ? the tools / items /things that can help you.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Retribution.
#190 - 2015-03-13 11:23:56 UTC
you know another terrible mechanic - drag bubbles... just saying..

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit

Scira Crimson
Scira Crimson Corporation
#191 - 2015-03-13 14:12:30 UTC
Quote:
Why do I need links? I don't particularly. It's a game mechanic that is available, so I choose to use it. There is nothing wrong in doing so and it's nothing about boosting my stats.


Thats bad logic. Unfortunatly you see a lot of this on many game forums

You can not justify a bad game mechanic because its in the game (if a player abuses a broken game mechanics, its the developers fault)


Ogb definitly needs to go, this is 100% obvious. Only people who take advantage of it are against it. lol

Imo Eve online encourages multiaccounting too much. I might probably be a minority with this opinion and I also use an alt(on same account) but for me its fundamentally wrong to encourage multiaccounting in an MMO. Because its contradictionary.

A MMO should(!) be meant to played by DIFFERENT people and not by 1 with 20 accounts. I mean, WTF is this?!? How can you even think thats good in any case?

I dont ask for hunting down multiboxers with fire and sword, but it should be at least be discouraged to do so.
And OGB is exactly the opposite.

Yes, its probably economical reasonable to allow and even encourage multiaccounts but in the long run it will turn out bad. What if one dayit turns out that only 10000 of online 40000 people are real player? You have to understand, that a low "effective playerbase" also means less promotion.
One heavy multiboxer might bring in a decent amount of € but if he quits (and he will one day) the number of "player" will decrease significantly.

Therefore:

1 person = 1 account = 1 character = maximum game integrety

Ofc it will be a constant struggle to enforce this and the game will not "break" if there are some people multiboxing, ofg, alting etc, but it should be a GOAL(!) to get rid of such things.

And as I read that CCP is just unable to get rid of ogb I am actually fine with the situation. (I would be really mad if they say its ok and good game design)

If something does not work as it should its no problem as long as a game company does not follow obnoxious design policies.
Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
#192 - 2015-03-13 14:22:35 UTC
Brutus Utama wrote:

so by removing off grid boosts you also want every miner to have an orca on grid with him? because that would be ridiculous...

Are the belts over crowded or something? I fail to see what's ridiculous for a ship (the orca) which is designed to not only boost fleets but haul the ore they mine/the ships to mine said ore with, be on grid with there mining fleet. That sounds like precisely where it was designed to/should be?

As to off grid warfare links, they are a plague that deserves to be removed entirely - however until such time as this happens people need to stop whining about them and just deal with it. They exist, they are annoying, but it's not the end of the world.

@ All the OGB users out there who continue to argue that they use/need them because others use/need them, therefore they are needed/shouldn't be removed, etc. It is completely asinine to believe that is even remotely a relevant reason to keep them in game, and the frequency of that argument makes my head hurt.

The vast majority of the OGB users I run into are not only terrible, and lose a hell of a lot more fights than they really should, but will rarely take fights even when they have the obvious advantage (not just referring to the links, but numerical as well.) Meanwhile the rest (the minority,) of OGB users, have sufficient knowledge, and player skill that they don't need the OGB's but are so used to them, that it has become a crutch they can't do without.

I've heard some very talented players (whom I met before they had there very own shiny OGB's) that would at one point jump at a "good fight" without the OGB's, cringe at the thought of taking the same fight it without there OGB's. Or, in the absence of, would now simply upship to the point where the people they are trying to get a "good fight" from just look at them and wisely bugger off. I've come to think of it as reverse blue balling. It sounds painful, and I can't think of any reason to do this to yourself other than exactly what people keep saying about link users, they have indeed become the risk averse scrubs they so loathe.

A final PS - please, don't try and blah blah about the risk involved when fighting vastly outnumbered therefore you need links, most of you are flying kiting doctrines in these cases and frankly the risk is basically zero unless you do something stupid, like stop moving.
Budda Kuha
State Border Patrol
P I R A T
#193 - 2015-03-13 15:56:36 UTC
Dun'Gal wrote:
Brutus Utama wrote:

so by removing off grid boosts you also want every miner to have an orca on grid with him? because that would be ridiculous...

Are the belts over crowded or something? I fail to see what's ridiculous for a ship (the orca) which is designed to not only boost fleets but haul the ore they mine/the ships to mine said ore with, be on grid with there mining fleet. That sounds like precisely where it was designed to/should be?

As to off grid warfare links, they are a plague that deserves to be removed entirely - however until such time as this happens people need to stop whining about them and just deal with it. They exist, they are annoying, but it's not the end of the world.

@ All the OGB users out there who continue to argue that they use/need them because others use/need them, therefore they are needed/shouldn't be removed, etc. It is completely asinine to believe that is even remotely a relevant reason to keep them in game, and the frequency of that argument makes my head hurt.

The vast majority of the OGB users I run into are not only terrible, and lose a hell of a lot more fights than they really should, but will rarely take fights even when they have the obvious advantage (not just referring to the links, but numerical as well.) Meanwhile the rest (the minority,) of OGB users, have sufficient knowledge, and player skill that they don't need the OGB's but are so used to them, that it has become a crutch they can't do without.

I've heard some very talented players (whom I met before they had there very own shiny OGB's) that would at one point jump at a "good fight" without the OGB's, cringe at the thought of taking the same fight it without there OGB's. Or, in the absence of, would now simply upship to the point where the people they are trying to get a "good fight" from just look at them and wisely bugger off. I've come to think of it as reverse blue balling. It sounds painful, and I can't think of any reason to do this to yourself other than exactly what people keep saying about link users, they have indeed become the risk averse scrubs they so loathe.

A final PS - please, don't try and blah blah about the risk involved when fighting vastly outnumbered therefore you need links, most of you are flying kiting doctrines in these cases and frankly the risk is basically zero unless you do something stupid, like stop moving.


That's the truth right there. I didn't want to make a big thing out of it but some players i used to fly with seem to have developed from roaming risk takers to stationary claymore leetnes. When you have been away for a while and see how links have changed the pvp pandscape it's sad really.
Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#194 - 2015-03-13 20:08:00 UTC
Whoever compares OGB to boosters forgot two things. First, boosters have a chance of drawbacks and can affect your travel in empire space. Second, boosters don't rely on how many EVE clients you can run at once.

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#195 - 2015-03-13 20:14:01 UTC
Budda Kuha wrote:
Dun'Gal wrote:
As to off grid warfare links, they ... deserves to be removed entirely - however until such time as this happens people need to stop whining about them and just deal with it.

That's the truth right there.

Finally. Halajulah.

/thread
Kamahl Daikun
Perkone
Caldari State
#196 - 2015-03-13 20:19:21 UTC
The only problem I see with OGB is that it's silently enforcing a standard.

I played another game that did something similar - buffslaves.
If you wanted to farm efficiently, you needed buffslaves. You didn't need to party with a buffing class because you had buffslaves. If you wanted to solo, buffslaves.
They became mandatory for nearly every activity of the game and it became a huge problem for various reason.

Eventually, the devs made the decision to disallow multi-clienting and buffslaves became a luxury of having more than 1 PC in the house but it didn't solve the problem.

OGB obviously doesn't prevent certain hulls from joining fleets but it is enforcing a standard.
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#197 - 2015-03-13 22:39:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Kamahl Daikun wrote:
The only problem I see with OGB is that it's silently enforcing a standard.

I played another game that did something similar - buffslaves.
If you wanted to farm efficiently, you needed buffslaves. You didn't need to party with a buffing class because you had buffslaves. If you wanted to solo, buffslaves.
They became mandatory for nearly every activity of the game and it became a huge problem for various reason.

Eventually, the devs made the decision to disallow multi-clienting and buffslaves became a luxury of having more than 1 PC in the house but it didn't solve the problem.

OGB obviously doesn't prevent certain hulls from joining fleets but it is enforcing a standard.



People usualy used their wifes characters for this in a game I played lol. Healers had whips and were purple. The class I played however was a combat class with unique buffs. It was cool because it gave you say 40 chances for damage to be guarded against every hit instead of a countdown timer.


Problem with this is in a king of the hill type mode healers were with the parties, buffing healing and sometimes AOEing and freezing enemies. me? I was expected to stay at base and give every character of every party the buffs they requested as they ran by (defence and offence were restricted to one of each type active at a time, 2 in total) Meaning I either did as told or I didn't get a party and didn't get any points except for what I killed, and believe me when they have +9 armor and pay to win +10 rare weapons while I have just +6 stuff with few stats added..... The party is almost the only way I get points. To make matters worse those points were linked to rank ups that gave you a permanent stat boost forever.

It's a game called dekaron that used to be ran by akklaim games (Yea those N64 guys) but now Nexon owns it, botting was no longer a problem but with pay to win and korea being many updates ahead I just left. I also don't like Nexons game "maplestory", the art style is just creepy to me.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#198 - 2015-03-13 23:12:02 UTC
Kamahl Daikun wrote:
Eventually, the devs made the decision to disallow multi-clienting and buffslaves became a luxury of having more than 1 PC in the house but it didn't solve the problem.

Ahaaaa.

Coming back to the multi-clienting part of this might be interesting discussion...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#199 - 2015-03-13 23:49:05 UTC
Budda Kuha wrote:
I recently bought this toon and returned to EVE after a break due to rl obligations and I was shocked to see that ogb was not only still around but that it has spread like a desease and infested most of lowsec and nullsec even. Before anyone calls me a whiner let me say this: I have much love for EVE as a game and even though i don't have much time to play it I will probably keep my accounts subbed until tranquility shuts down.I'm not a "pro" and I don't care for kb stats but i do care for good fights which way too often simply get ruined by off grid boosted undercover super ships! Wasn't this supposed to be dealt with a long time ago!? Why do you even bother balancing hulls if you're allowing a condor being turned into a garmur from off grid without any notable risk?!


The arguments for getting rid of this terrible mechanic are well known so I won't enumerate them again but seriously: CCP, get your stuff together! You guys know what a turn off ogb is for half of the pvp community, you know how it caters to a dumped down, tedious, slow and risk-averse playsyle that is literally poison to pvp as a whole! If the dogma rewrite still takes time give us something in the meantime! This bullshit mechanic has been around for way too long and not everybody is enough of an eve fanboy to endure your disregard in that respect.CCP, do something!


Obligatory, learn how to play the game.
Kiandoshia
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#200 - 2015-03-14 00:37:25 UTC
Budda Kuha wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Both fleets in an engagement can use OGB.

I find it difficult to see the 'risk free advantage' here.

Mr Epeen Cool


You're missing the point. Not everybody is willing or able to run a booster.


There is problem.

Become willing and able.

Problem is no more.

Eve 101 :D