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Tora Bushido for CSM X - A New High-Sec (No Nerfed Disneyland)

First post First post
Author
NightmareX
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#421 - 2015-03-11 23:53:24 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Lucas Kell wrote:
Hey ex-afterbirth, how you doin?

Tora might well know wardecs more that me, though I'd very much doubt it since the system is pretty simple. And sure, if you want the system more unbalanced in your favour (which I assume you do, since skill isn't exactly your middle name) then Tora is definitely your guy, though he'd likely not survive more than a few discussions before he gets makers as "too negative, disregard". If you fancy seeing actual balance being supported though like most players do, then he's the exact opposite of a good idea. And you can only really use the term "empire PvP" very loosely. Camping the Jita undock and smacktalking is hardly a good example of empire PvP.

Anyway, now that Tora has his little army of trolls well on their way to disagree with absolutely everything said I'm going to call it a day. I don't really fancy getting into the usual circular arguments which all boils down to "we cant easy PvP against unarmed targets - cos we're so hardcore".

TTFN

You can argue as much as you want, but you don't do empire wars and you absolutely doesn't do that everyday like Tora does. Because of that, you simply don't know as much as Tora does about empire PVP and war decs and how the mechanics behind it works. Because of that, you shouldn't even be a part of this discussion if you are not supporting empire PVP and war decs to get better.

At least, you should point out Toras flaws or bad points with his ideas if there are any. But your knowledge are pretty much zero in this. That's the reason you can't even point out any flaws or bad points with Toras ideas and just "claim" you know more than him and that Tora is just wrong.

Not only that, but Tora knows enough to actually be a real candidate to the CSM with it's empire PVP and war dec ideas. You don't understand the game enough even in it's basic state to even be considered a candidate to the CSM by a long mile, even if you had tried to go that way. How about that?

The fact is that according to you, you know PVP better than those who have done that for many years and even every day for many years (as we have seen from earlier discussions where you claim to know more, even as a carebear noob). You even knows more than Tora about what empire PVP and war decs is even though Tora does that every day and have done it for many years while you sit in 0.0 space carebearing while using alts in empire for industrial things. You even barely do PVP at all. So how can you expect us to believe you when you have pretty much zero PVP experience to begin with?

Just because you are sad because you know that Tora knows better than you, you don't have to claim that you are better than him at this, because you are not. You are not even remotely near him.

Oh also. The new Rebirth is called 'Deadly Fingertips' Blink.

If camping stations and gates brings tons of kills and tons of isk income, then who gives a rat ass about doing that?

You are simply to scared to admit it that you are afraid of the Marmite because they are so effective at killing stuffs that way. Yeah, you have several alts in empire right?

I bet 5 dollars that some of your alts have been war dec'ed by Marnmite many times (if they are in a player corporation) and you have simply been hiding from them. That's the plain fact of why you are so angry at Tora and Marmite in general. Yeah, you "think" you know more than Tora. But hey, i also "think" that Tora knows much more about empire PVP and war decs than you do. Does that makes me to be more right about it just because i think so?

No. I know this because it's a fact no matter how little you like to hear it or not. You can disagree and go buuhuu as much as you like, but everyone who knows Tora knows i'm talking the truth.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama

Valkin Mordirc
#422 - 2015-03-12 05:15:06 UTC
Quote:
I'm not saying they are all weak, but the vast majority are.


I'm not trying to start an agrument with you Lucas, nor did I read most of Tora's and your debate, but that bit caught my eye.

But isn't the fact that most Highsec corps are inherently 'easy' targets a problem with how the game encourages play? Like as such, people think Highsec should be a safe PvP-free zone, or at least have the impression that it should be. And when they get Wardec/ganked/whatever They over-react, they think they being abused,

I would say it's the systems fault for not properly letting them know whats going on. I would deffently agree the Wardec systems needs to be changed. I would say that all of the NPE need to be heavily reworked, I'm glad CCP is working on that.

Quote:
Oh also. The new Rebirth is called 'Deadly Fingertips



Smile
#DeleteTheWeak
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#423 - 2015-03-12 06:42:04 UTC
Lucas next time I go back to marmite/hisec come join me. I promise I'll find you ships that shoot back ;-)

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#424 - 2015-03-12 07:57:31 UTC
In the end its all about "Risk versus Profit" and "Attack options versus counter options". If you keep these two in balance, you get great content. And how to do this, well, not everyone agrees on how to do it Blink

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#425 - 2015-03-12 07:59:07 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
You can argue as much as you want, but you don't do empire wars and you absolutely doesn't do that everyday like Tora does. Because of that, you simply don't know as much as Tora does about empire PVP and war decs and how the mechanics behind it works. Because of that, you shouldn't even be a part of this discussion if you are not supporting empire PVP and war decs to get better.
LOL! So unless I'm for making wardecs more unbalanced than they already are, I'm not allowed an opinion? That's really not how it works bro. And war mechanics are very simple, so I doubt Tora knows anything more than anyone else that's been here a while. Was he even here for old style war decs?

NightmareX wrote:
At least, you should point out Toras flaws or bad points with his ideas if there are any. But your knowledge are pretty much zero in this. That's the reason you can't even point out any flaws or bad points with Toras ideas and just "claim" you know more than him and that Tora is just wrong.
I have, you're just not reading before you leap in to defend him.

NightmareX wrote:
Not only that, but Tora knows enough to actually be a real candidate to the CSM with it's empire PVP and war dec ideas. You don't understand the game enough even in it's basic state to even be considered a candidate to the CSM by a long mile, even if you had tried to go that way. How about that?
Lol, Tora would be a disgrace to the CSM. He favours his own playstyle at the expense of others and he's near incapable of a reasonable discussion. I guarantee you that I understand the game far more than you think. You attack me, but you know absolutely nothing about me.

NightmareX wrote:
The fact is that according to you, you know PVP better than those who have done that for many years and even every day for many years (as we have seen from earlier discussions where you claim to know more, even as a carebear noob). You even knows more than Tora about what empire PVP and war decs is even though Tora does that every day and have done it for many years while you sit in 0.0 space carebearing while using alts in empire for industrial things. You even barely do PVP at all. So how can you expect us to believe you when you have pretty much zero PVP experience to begin with?
I'm not saying I know more about PvP. I'm saying I know as much about wardec mechanics because they are a very simple system and there's not many mechanics to know. And once again, you know nothing about me. I have plenty of experience with PvP both in empire and out of it. You presume too much.

NightmareX wrote:
If camping stations and gates brings tons of kills and tons of isk income, then who gives a rat ass about doing that?

You are simply to scared to admit it that you are afraid of the Marmite because they are so effective at killing stuffs that way. Yeah, you have several alts in empire right?

I bet 5 dollars that some of your alts have been war dec'ed by Marnmite many times (if they are in a player corporation) and you have simply been hiding from them. That's the plain fact of why you are so angry at Tora and Marmite in general. Yeah, you "think" you know more than Tora. But hey, i also "think" that Tora knows much more about empire PVP and war decs than you do. Does that makes me to be more right about it just because i think so?

No. I know this because it's a fact no matter how little you like to hear it or not. You can disagree and go buuhuu as much as you like, but everyone who knows Tora knows i'm talking the truth.
What's wrong with mechanics that are obviopusly unbalanced? I dunno buddy, maybe you should think about that. Why does sov and jump mechanics need to be changed? The CFC is so effective at owning half of null, so who gives a rats ass about doing that? The answer is "everyone else" because us owning everything is a clear sign that the game is unbalanced. It's the same for you lot. A bunch of people who wouldn't know skilled PvP if it jumped up and bit them in the ass wardeccing thousands of noobs and farming them like they were NPCs, that's a clear sign the game is unbalanced. I'm going to laugh my ass off when CCP announce changes and you implode with rage.

And you'd lose 5 dollars there friend. I've not been decced by Marmite even once. If I ever were, the 3 people I have in a corp wouldn't care since they don't undock - not ever. And I've made it totally clear why I've got this opinion about wardecs, I've stated reason I've made a point. You simply don't want to read it so you'll just sit there badly smacktalking as you always do.

Really though your opinion is irrelevant. CCP are already going to look at wardecs, and when they do your crying about how you should be allowed to farm newbies will mean nothing. You're incapable and objectively looking at the mecahnics so you'll likely have no say in what they change.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#426 - 2015-03-12 08:13:49 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Lucas Kell wrote:

Really though your opinion is irrelevant. CCP are already going to look at wardecs, and when they do your crying about how you should be allowed to farm newbies will mean nothing. You're incapable and objectively looking at the mecahnics so you'll likely have no say in what they change.



*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

How wrong can you be when you think every corporation and alliance in EVE is one of stupids, bound to fail unless CCP holds their hands. How completely ridiculous you look by arguing that until you are blue in the face.
How silly you are when bleating on and on about killing noobs in pods/shuttles as if that's a thing.
Newsflash Veersie, most groups that interacted with Marmite or the others got to have fun, got better from it and thrived. The small minority of debate club rejects that want to form a corp with their 7 alts to farm purples might not be doing so well but they, like you, were doomed to fail from the start.

*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#427 - 2015-03-12 08:14:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
I'm not trying to start an agrument with you Lucas, nor did I read most of Tora's and your debate, but that bit caught my eye.

But isn't the fact that most Highsec corps are inherently 'easy' targets a problem with how the game encourages play? Like as such, people think Highsec should be a safe PvP-free zone, or at least have the impression that it should be. And when they get Wardec/ganked/whatever They over-react, they think they being abused,

I would say it's the systems fault for not properly letting them know whats going on. I would deffently agree the Wardec systems needs to be changed. I would say that all of the NPE need to be heavily reworked, I'm glad CCP is working on that.
The problem is that you've got players who do nothing but PvP (the with guns kind as that's not all that PvP is) able to switch off concord and attack players who play in other ways. They stand no chance of fighting back because that's not what they do, and they don;t want to fight back as that's not what they enjoy. Effectively what that means is that highsec favours PvP (with guns) to the point that it's impossible to have a decently sized non-PvP group (hence groups like red-frog and pro-synergy operating out of NPC corps).

As we all know that new players tend to stay longer if they are part of a group, it means that new players choosing to stay in highsec have the choice of joining a PvP group or playing alone or in a very small group. The fact that you're better off running a larger PvE group in null than in highsec for safety reasons is a good sign that the security part of high security isn't effective. Whether people want to accept it or not, high security is supposed to be safer. What people like Tora push for is to maintain the status quo so they can continue to farm there with ease. It's good for them, but not for the game.

In part, social groups will solve that, but I don't think it will be enough, and CCP knows this. The old wardec system had it's flaws, but it was more prohibitive of the mass farming style of wardecs people do now, so back when I started, large scale non-PvP highsec groups were actually viable. Now they simply aren't. The problem is both the changes to wardec mechanics and the specialisation of groups like Marmite.

Tora Bushido wrote:
In the end its all about "Risk versus Profit" and "Attack options versus counter options". If you keep these two in balance, you get great content. And how to do this, well, not everyone agrees on how to do it Blink
What risk do you have farming newbies and industrials? The problem is that it's not balanced right now. You're happy with that because you're on the winning side. You need to learn to be more objective. I'm happily watching CCP smash though my entire playstyle with a sledgehammer because I know and accept than null mechanics are out of balance. I don't necessarily agree with how they are doing everything, but I understand why it's needed.

War decs will change and when they do you will be negatively affected. That's something you will have to learn to accept one day. Or not, you know, your call. CCP will be pushing ahead regardless though because there's glaringly obvious balance issues there.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#428 - 2015-03-12 08:46:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tora Bushido
Maybe have newbies start in safe null-sec and when they are ready they can try evil high-sec ?

I just call bull **** when I see people cry about how others are so evil to them, its unfair, its unbalanced, bla, bla, etc. You have exactly the same options as the attacker side. So accept you're weak or HTFU and become better at what you do.

If in an fps I get killed by a better skilled player, do I cry the game is unbalanced, broken, bla etc ? No I accept he is better in this game and try to become better myself. Stop looking at others and start looking at what you can do yourself to become better at this game.

The game must be broken because the PL is better at null-sec then Marmites ? Of course not. Do we cry about that, hell no. We try to get better !

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#429 - 2015-03-12 08:53:43 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal.

They stand no chance of fighting back
-> Yes they do.
they don;t want to fight back
-> Hey, I don't want to farm isk but CCP isn't handing it to me for free because of that.
what that means is that highsec favours PvP (with guns)
-> EVE = PVP game. PVP with guns, wits, social skills, number smarts, etc... BUT PVP. Yes.
hence groups like red-frog and pro-synergy operating out of NPC corps
-> They adapted. They win. You whine.
As we all know that new players tend to stay longer if they are part of a group, it means that new players choosing to stay in highsec have the choice of joining a PvP group or playing alone or in a very small group
-> You just refered to redfrog and pro-synergy; those are not very small are they?
The fact that you're better off running a larger PvE group in null than in highsec for safety reasons is a good sign that the security part of high security isn't effective.
-> And yet, Hisec is much more alive and is the place to be for PVE and PVP?
high security is supposed to be safer.
-> it is. A lot. What are you trying to say? Can't hear you through your tears.
back when I started, large scale non-PvP highsec groups were actually viable. Now they simply aren't.
-> Time for you to come off your high horse and smell the hisec, buddy. There are literally thousands of those groups active and thriving in hisec.
What risk do you have farming newbies and industrials?
-> We don't farm anything and everyone is a potential killer.
You need to learn to be more objective
-> project much?
War decs will change and when they do you will be negatively affected.
-> pretty sure they need to change but not how you think. Corp hopping should go, that's a given and that will happen.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#430 - 2015-03-12 09:02:57 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
Maybe have newbies start in safe null-sec and when they are ready they can try evil high-sec ?
Or... CCP balance it out so highsec is what it was designed to be, rather than the broken system it is now. That involves both lowering rewards and tightening up restriction on wardecs.

Tora Bushido wrote:
I just call bull **** when I see people cry about how others are so evil to them, its unfair, its unbalanced, bla, bla, etc. You have exactly the same options as the attacker side. So accept you're weak or HTFU and become better at what you do.
But it is unbalanced. Do you unserstand that there is more in EVE than just shooting each other? Right now highsec corps are pretty much restricted to either being a bunch of alts or a group that wants to do PvP. Corporations in highsec are uselss for a large scale non-PvP group. That's obviously a balance issue for gameplay styles that are not yours.

Tora Bushido wrote:
If in an fps I get killed by a better skilled player, do I cry the game is unbalanced, broken, bla etc ? No I accept he is better in this game and try to become better myself. Stop looking at others and start looking at what you can do yourself to become better at this game.
And FPS game is designed to be people shooting each other. If an FPS game also had a PvE section, but anyone who did that got immediately wiped out by one of the PvP guys, then yes, it would be out of balance.

You problem seems to stem down to you not understanding that EVE is a sandbox and that shooting each other with guns isn't a mandatory activity. Someone who chooses not to shoot someone else should not be at a disadvantage automatically. That's not what EVE is.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#431 - 2015-03-12 09:08:32 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
You problem seems to stem down to you not understanding that EVE is a sandbox and that shooting each other with guns isn't a mandatory activity. Someone who chooses not to shoot someone else should not be at a disadvantage automatically. That's not what EVE is.
I understand this. But what you don't seem to understand is that all these fun things in Eve are interactive with each other. Eve doesn't have a little corner somewhere, where you can safely PvE, indy and not care about the PvP side of it.

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#432 - 2015-03-12 10:01:23 UTC
[quote=Danalee] They stand no chance of fighting back
-> Yes they do.
----> A non-PvP corp has a chance against a group that specialises in attacking non-PvP players? I think not. Your alliance kb stats seem to agree with me there.

they don;t want to fight back
-> Hey, I don't want to farm isk but CCP isn't handing it to me for free because of that.
----> And yet you farm that isk by killing industrial players, through PvP. So you can play the way you want, but others aren't allowed to? How about we add a mecahnic where I can force your alliance to only be abel to engage in PvE for a week, so you either have to PvE or quit your corp. That's the equivalent of what wardecs do to non-PvP players. It forces them into a gameplay style they do not enjoy.

what that means is that highsec favours PvP (with guns)
-> EVE = PVP game. PVP with guns, wits, social skills, number smarts, etc... BUT PVP. Yes.
----> Wrong. EVE is a sandbox virtual world. PvP has a big place in it, but there are other aspects of the game. That said, why should PvP with guns be more viable than other styles of play?

hence groups like red-frog and pro-synergy operating out of NPC corps
-> They adapted. They win. You whine.
----> They didn't adapt. They accepted the fact that a non-PvP group can't run a large corporation in the current broken mechanics and they fell back to NPC corps. Newsflash: If the best course of action is to use an NPC corp then the mechanics is broken, since that should never be the best choice. NPC corps should be a last resort, not the best choice.

As we all know that new players tend to stay longer if they are part of a group, it means that new players choosing to stay in highsec have the choice of joining a PvP group or playing alone or in a very small group
-> You just refered to redfrog and pro-synergy; those are not very small are they?
----> They aren't operating as proper corporations though. They have to run as NPC alts because to do otherwise is suicide.

The fact that you're better off running a larger PvE group in null than in highsec for safety reasons is a good sign that the security part of high security isn't effective.
-> And yet, Hisec is much more alive and is the place to be for PVE and PVP?
----> It's more alive due to the game as a whole being more alive than it used to be. And let's face it, most people playing in highsec are NPC alts or in personal corps.

high security is supposed to be safer.
-> it is. A lot. What are you trying to say? Can't hear you through your tears.
----> It is in some ways, not in others. A corporation that doesn't focus purely on PvP is safer in any other section of space than highsec.

back when I started, large scale non-PvP highsec groups were actually viable. Now they simply aren't.
-> Time for you to come off your high horse and smell the hisec, buddy. There are literally thousands of those groups active and thriving in hisec.
----> OK, name 5 large scale (let's say 30 unique players) non-PvP groups that operates entirely in highsec and doesn't use alts to avoid wardecs. Should be easy since there are thousands.

War decs will change and when they do you will be negatively affected.
-> pretty sure they need to change but not how you think. Corp hopping should go, that's a given and that will happen.
----> Do you mean corp hopping or do you mean corp rolling? Not that it matters, either way they will both stay or be replaced with equivalent functionality.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#433 - 2015-03-12 10:12:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Danalee
I'm not playing that game mang...

You seem to know a lot about me Lucas, nothing is true but don't let that stop you.

For ISK, I've got an alt who runs LVL 4 missions. In a corp with 7 other people. Nice people. Never had any trouble.
I don't make isk with PVP. It just doesn't work like that for me... Don't know why you would think that.

When you say PVE is safer in low and null, I'm sure you are joking... At least, tell me you are joking?
Did you mean PVE is safer when you are in a corp/alliance/nullbloc that has PVP players protecting the borders?
Than you are correct. And prove my point.

Check here if you are looking for a good Hisec industrie or exploration or incursion group, it's a good start.

Thanks!

If you have time, pray tell; How would YOU change wardecs?

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#434 - 2015-03-12 10:18:22 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
I understand this. But what you don't seem to understand is that all these fun things in Eve are interactive with each other. Eve doesn't have a little corner somewhere, where you can safely PvE, indy and not care about the PvP side of it.
And I get that, I just think the current ability for a group such as your to force hundreds of corps into having to fight back or hide only serves to strip away fun from those groups to favour you. An industry group has no interest in fighting with guns, and they usually have no skill in it either. Wardecs as they currently stand encourage you to pick the weakest target to make the most profit. This means that as the system currently stands the best choice for highsec industrial groups is to not exists in an official capacity. I honestly don't know how you can possibly look at how groups like red-frog are forced to operate to survive and can't see that there's a glaring balance issue there. That leads me to believe that you can see there's an obvious balance issue, but because you benefit from it being out of balance you simply deny it.

The thing is, "interactive" is a broad term. It's not just shooting people, and yet that's all you seem to recognise. People like you and Danalee can sit there and go on about the carebears and say HTFU as much as you want, but people play EVE for different reasons and in different ways. They shouldn't be forced to play it the way you want just because you want to force them to.

Even if you do make it onto the CSM (which I doubt) CCP are likely to change wardecs in ways that you probably won't like. At the end of the day they are providing for the whole playerbase, not just what benefit your group. At some point you will actually have to put some actual effort in for the masses of rewards that you reap.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#435 - 2015-03-12 10:23:35 UTC
Danalee wrote:
For ISK, I've got an alt who runs LVL 4 missions. In a corp with 7 other people. Nice people. Never had any trouble.
I don't make isk with PVP. It just doesn't work like that for me... Don't know why you would think that.
Wow, a whole 7 people? Apologies though, I thought you were a half-competent PvPer. You should be able to make considerably more than level 4 missions when you are farming haulers.

Danalee wrote:
When you say PVE is safer in low and null, I'm sure you are joking... At least, tell me you are joking?
I didn't say "PvE is safer". Learn to read. I said operating a large scale PvE group is safer. And it is. If you tried to run a 100 man industrial corp in highsec you'd be permadecced by like 5 groups.

Danalee wrote:
Check here if you are looking for a good Hisec industrie or exploration or incursion group, it's a good start.
Lol, so tl;dr, while you say there are thousands of large PvE groups operating in highsec, you can't name 5.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#436 - 2015-03-12 10:31:51 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Wow, a whole 7 people? Apologies though, I thought you were a half-competent PvPer. You should be able to make considerably more than level 4 missions when you are farming haulers.

We. Don't. Farm. Anything. It doesn't work like that. Try it, you'll know.
Level 4 Missions make solid isk and don't FORCE me to suckup to some spacemonkey scrublord to be allowed to farm in nullbear land.

Lucas Kell wrote:
I didn't say "PvE is safer". Learn to read. I said operating a large scale PvE group is safer. And it is. If you tried to run a 100 man industrial corp in highsec you'd be permadecced by like 5 groups.

Only 5 wardecs? If you'd try to run a 100 man industrial corp in lowsec, you won't be able to undock. ever.
In null, you wouldn't be able to get the corp started in the first place because you need to interact with the locals to do it.
Your premise is this magic 100 man corp doesn't WANT to do that. Think about it man, I know you're pretty smart, you figure it out.

Lucas Kell wrote:
Lol, so tl;dr, while you say there are thousands of large PvE groups operating in highsec, you can't name 5.

I can name more than that, we've wardecced a lot of them, some even gave us bloody noses. Others made a deal. Others lost ships and carried on, others don't exist anymore. Which is ALL good for the game.

I'm waiting for your magic change that will make hisec better for everyone by the way.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#437 - 2015-03-12 10:35:05 UTC
Danalee wrote:
If you have time, pray tell; How would YOU change wardecs?
For a quick win, I'd restrict outgoing aggressive wars to 5 or 10. This would stop mass wardec farming.

Long term I'd remove the entire system as it currently stands and replace it with a method for taking short term control of sections of space so PVE activity within it pays you - you get a cut of market fees, taxes, repair bills, etc. The aim would be to give PvP groups something to fight over while giving PvE players ways to support the groups they want to support by playing the way they want. One of the best examples of PvP in highsec working as it should was when RvB were taking POCOs and the mercs all went after them. Two way fighting is far better at generating meaningful combat than the one sided turkey shoots that wardecs currently promote.

I wouldn't do it like sov, with structure shoots and timers, It'd be much quicker, so you literally just fly over and stake a claim and as long as noone is contesting that, you win control straight away for a day or so. If someone wants to contest it they fly over and do so and then both groups are free to fire on each other at will. I suppose it would be like a cross between FW and sov, but faster paced.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

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Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#438 - 2015-03-12 10:42:19 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Danalee wrote:
If you have time, pray tell; How would YOU change wardecs?
For a quick win, I'd restrict outgoing aggressive wars to 5 or 10. This would stop mass wardec farming.

Long term I'd remove the entire system as it currently stands and replace it with a method for taking short term control of sections of space so PVE activity within it pays you - you get a cut of market fees, taxes, repair bills, etc. The aim would be to give PvP groups something to fight over while giving PvE players ways to support the groups they want to support by playing the way they want. One of the best examples of PvP in highsec working as it should was when RvB were taking POCOs and the mercs all went after them. Two way fighting is far better at generating meaningful combat than the one sided turkey shoots that wardecs currently promote.

I wouldn't do it like sov, with structure shoots and timers, It'd be much quicker, so you literally just fly over and stake a claim and as long as noone is contesting that, you win control straight away for a day or so. If someone wants to contest it they fly over and do so and then both groups are free to fire on each other at will. I suppose it would be like a cross between FW and sov, but faster paced.


I like that long term idea. It's good.
There is cause for interaction. Add something to gently but steadily move players away from NPC corps and you are golden.

Restricting outgoing wardecs is gamey and will be gamed, especially when combined with the current other corp mecanics.
I make corp, wardec 10 other corps becuase they taunted me or something Eviland they all drop and reform corp.
Nah, let's not Cool

The temporarely claiming of systems... yeah, love it.



D.

Bear

PS.: we are actually having fun with RVB again

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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#439 - 2015-03-12 10:44:03 UTC
Danalee wrote:
We. Don't. Farm. Anything. It doesn't work like that. Try it, you'll know.
Level 4 Missions make solid isk and don't FORCE me to suckup to some spacemonkey scrublord to be allowed to farm in nullbear land.
Of course you don't, you just mass wardec corps and destroy their ever replenishing industrial ships for loot. Oh wait, that is farming.

And I don't farm in nullbear land. Like level 45 missions it's peasant isk. I make most of my isk trading in highsec, and I enhance that with production. The reason I'm in a null group is so that I can readily engage in large scale PvP and run some trade in null sec.

Danalee wrote:
Only 5 wardecs? If you'd try to run a 100 man industrial corp in lowsec, you won't be able to undock. ever.
In null, you wouldn't be able to get the corp started in the first place because you need to interact with the locals to do it.
Your premise is this magic 100 man corp doesn't WANT to do that. Think about it man, I know you're pretty smart, you figure it out.
I'll have to take your word for it in low, since nobody lives there because it's terribad. As for null, there are loads of PvE groups. Parts of the CFC are pure PvE, as are most of the renters. Yes you need to interact, but you don't need to do it with guns.

Danalee wrote:
I can name more than that, we've wardecced a lot of them, some even gave us bloody noses. Others made a deal. Others lost ships and carried on, others don't exist anymore. Which is ALL good for the game.
So start naming. Ones that still exists would generally be good as it would only prove my point more if you names groups that couldn't survive.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

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Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#440 - 2015-03-12 10:48:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Danalee wrote:
I like that long term idea. It's good.
There is cause for interaction. Add something to gently but steadily move players away from NPC corps and you are golden.

Restricting outgoing wardecs is gamey and will be gamed, especially when combined with the current other corp mecanics.
I make corp, wardec 10 other corps becuase they taunted me or something Eviland they all drop and reform corp.
Nah, let's not Cool

The temporarely claiming of systems... yeah, love it.
Glad you like it. I don't want to see PvP gone form highsec, I just want to see it have meaning and not push out players who play in other ways.

Gaming that system by the way is simple to fix. If a corp disbands cancel the war and refund the fee if no kills were made. But like I say, that's only what I'd consider as a quick win to help corps survive a bit longer rather than a long term change. Long term there would be no restriction on how many areas you contest at a time. If you're big enough to dominate the whole of the force, more power to you.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.