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Fozzie Sov is the Wrong Sov: An alternate vision

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Tykonderoga
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2015-03-11 16:50:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tykonderoga
I propose that all sovereignty warfare revolve around capital and supercapital engagements in order to keep these ship classes relevant. I propose this as a counter-model to that proposed by CCP Fozzie. Subcaps have plenty to do in the game as it is, but capitals and supercapitals are seemingly running out of things to do.

-Hitpoints on player owned outposts will be doubled. Stations will have offensive capabilities, including capital guns and their own doomsdays. There will be no reinforcement timer on stations. This will encourage people to live in a particular system or risk losing their stuff.

-Player owned outposts will be destructible and there will be a plunder reward once they are destroyed, meaning the stuff inside is salvageable or lootable.

-Sovereignty will revert back to who has the majority of towers in a system. However, only one tower will have a reinforcement timer. All other towers will have to be defended when they are being attacked or else they will be lost.

-Offensive and Defensive capabilities on POS will be significantly enhanced to require the use of supercapitals and capitals. No more reinforcing a POS with bomber fleets or Ishtars. These things will be hell to take down and not the pushovers they are now.

-NPC 0.0 will be a capital and supercapital free zone where smaller entities can brawl. The Sanahas and other pirate factions will be the only ones using capitals and supercapitals there. More broadly, these pirate factions can conquer space and make that space capital and supercapital free zones as well. But like player owned empires these gains can be reverted. NPC 0.0 will be a place where smaller entities can grow and mature, and there will be an abundance of resources for them to build their wallets up.

-Finally, supercapitals will be able to be manufactured in low sec, allowing smaller entities to build their own super weapons. This should not just be a perk for true null-sec.
Odracir Atosc
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#2 - 2015-03-11 16:56:32 UTC
Is this a troll post ? Shocked
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#3 - 2015-03-11 16:57:18 UTC
So you want to block everyone who isnt a current sovholding block out of sov?

Seems like an awesome serving of stagnation with a side order of bankrupcy!
Tykonderoga
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-03-11 17:28:30 UTC
Not at all. However, just because you want sov should not mean you instantly get it. Moreover, you build an empire over time. Rome was not built in a day and neither was it destroyed in one day. There are provisions in the plan for the growth of smaller entities.
Colette Kassia
Kassia Industrial Supply
#5 - 2015-03-11 17:32:49 UTC
None of this has a snowball's chance in hell of happening.

I think you are too quick to call the new sov The End or Supercapitals. Fleet A and Fleet B are fighting over an objective. Fleet A is entirely subcaps. Fleet B is a mix of subcaps, carriers, supers, and a few titans. Who do you think will win?

And then there's that idea I posted in your other thread. If they implemented anything similar to that then capitals would remain tremendously valuable strategic assets.
Tykonderoga
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2015-03-11 17:35:24 UTC
No, but the new sov plan is a complete marginalization of caps and supercaps. I am not calling for Phoebe to be reverted, but to have these things as a vibrant part of the game. And to recognize that these things are a play style that many people find appealing.
Iain Cariaba
#7 - 2015-03-11 17:57:44 UTC
Tykonderoga wrote:
Whaaaah, my epeen is hurting.

If you seriously think that basing sov on capitals and supers wouldn't totally block small groups from keeping sov, then you have totally lost touch with the reality of the game.

As you say, just because a group wants sov doesn't mean they automatically get it. If someone wants the same space, those grouos will fight over that space. On the flip side, however, is that if no one actually wants a system, the barrier to entry for sov should not be a price tag of at least 30 billion isk.

The simple fact is that CCP is finally taking steps to correct the mistake they made many years ago when they introduced the massive game imbalance known as supers.
Juan Mileghere
The Corporate Raiders
#8 - 2015-03-11 18:21:16 UTC
Tykonderoga wrote:
Not at all. However, just because you want sov should not mean you instantly get it. Moreover, you build an empire over time. Rome was not built in a day and neither was it destroyed in one day. There are provisions in the plan for the growth of smaller entities.

Whaaa Our Rental Empire might get beat up Whaaaa

Blobbing Explained
Ryan Air
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-03-11 18:40:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryan Air
You know what's funny about all the people doing the "whaaa"? They really don't have a clue.

You think smaller entities actually have the right to be able to threaten a machine as big as us. You think you deserve things. You haven't put in the work! Entities that own vast areas of space weren't given it, they fought tooth and nail to have it and hold it. If you want easy mode, there truly is a space for that. NPC Null is a wonderful place to learn and grow! Otherwise, you can rent space. They choose to do this! They profit from it and get our protection. They come to us, asking for this yet, we are at fault for being able to provide this assistance to them (at a cost).

What makes me laugh the most is this, I'm currently reading the book Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. It refers to the "builders" and "looters". The builders are the rich guys, the ones that built society. The looters are the complainers who state, because of the existence of the builders, they will never have a chance. The Looters don't have the knowledge, the drive, the dedication, or the care to actually become the builders. They just want it given them.

This sounds an quite a lot like the mocking posts I see here. You guys scream to us "builders"..."now you'll see! Now I'll have a chance to make it big". You won't! All you are capable if is looting from us. Taking the years of infrastructure we have nurtured and killing it. You scream about how unkillable these Supercaps are yet you have never been in one and realized...holy crap this thing is unstable. DPS that can be vollied off the field. Move a little and a ship that took well over a year to build and fly is useless. But you are ok complaining till you looters get what we have built destroyed. You scream about how "OP" something is yet we "builders" counter it. You may not like how it's done but, we do it and it works.
Iain Cariaba
#10 - 2015-03-11 18:56:50 UTC
Ryan Air wrote:
I'm going to look down on everyone by standing on the backs of those who actually did the work and shouting that I've done all this.

Fortunately for those who would like to take that first step without running face first into your ability to blob them into oblivion, CCP seems to think they should have that chance.
Nina Lowel
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2015-03-11 18:59:25 UTC
Colette Kassia wrote:
None of this has a snowball's chance in hell of happening.

I think you are too quick to call the new sov The End or Supercapitals. Fleet A and Fleet B are fighting over an objective. Fleet A is entirely subcaps. Fleet B is a mix of subcaps, carriers, supers, and a few titans. Who do you think will win?

And then there's that idea I posted in your other thread. If they implemented anything similar to that then capitals would remain tremendously valuable strategic assets.


Do you null?

Judging by your post you don't.
Tykonderoga
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2015-03-11 19:02:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tykonderoga
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Tykonderoga wrote:
Whaaaah, my epeen is hurting.

If you seriously think that basing sov on capitals and supers wouldn't totally block small groups from keeping sov, then you have totally lost touch with the reality of the game.

As you say, just because a group wants sov doesn't mean they automatically get it. If someone wants the same space, those grouos will fight over that space. On the flip side, however, is that if no one actually wants a system, the barrier to entry for sov should not be a price tag of at least 30 billion isk.

The simple fact is that CCP is finally taking steps to correct the mistake they made many years ago when they introduced the massive game imbalance known as supers.



Yes, EvE is hard and harder if you are stupid, as your sig says. This is a game based on ISK and the making of ISK. So, yes, there is a high barrier and should be a high barrier to take and own sovereignty. But if you really want it, you should go through the evolution of the game from high to low to npc null-sec to true null sec to get it, and not skip every other step and conquer sov with interceptors or frigates. I just don't see it your way. I see this as taking years and years and not being instantly gratified. However, if you really want it, CCP has created a mechanic where you can buy PLEX and then sell it for ISK. But if you don't want to do it that way, then go through the evolution or sit in Thera.
Talbrys Narentyr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2015-03-11 19:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Talbrys Narentyr
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Tykonderoga wrote:
Whaaaah, my epeen is hurting.

If you seriously think that basing sov on capitals and supers wouldn't totally block small groups from keeping sov, then you have totally lost touch with the reality of the game.

As you say, just because a group wants sov doesn't mean they automatically get it. If someone wants the same space, those grouos will fight over that space. On the flip side, however, is that if no one actually wants a system, the barrier to entry for sov should not be a price tag of at least 30 billion isk.

The simple fact is that CCP is finally taking steps to correct the mistake they made many years ago when they introduced the massive game imbalance known as supers.


That's not what he said at all. He said he wanted capitals and supercapitals to have a definite place in the game of sov warfare instead of being shiny spacecoffins. Some of us have actually worked for big ships, because that's what we wanted to do at some time during our play. I personally wanted to fly a super within the first month I played, I finally have one I achieved a goal, but now I get to see my goal reduced to a consolation prize instead of something meaningful I can actually use. He isn't saying he wants sov to be decided by capitals.

Edit: Didn't read the first post apparently rip

I still agree that capitals need to not be marginalized in this new sov warfare.
Elenahina
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#14 - 2015-03-11 19:15:28 UTC
Odracir Atosc wrote:
Is this a troll post ? Shocked


Yes. And not a very good one.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Tykonderoga
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2015-03-11 19:17:45 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Odracir Atosc wrote:
Is this a troll post ? Shocked


Yes. And not a very good one.



Typical response of someone who has nothing constructive to say.
Iain Cariaba
#16 - 2015-03-11 19:24:17 UTC
Tykonderoga wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Odracir Atosc wrote:
Is this a troll post ? Shocked


Yes. And not a very good one.



Typical, but accurate, response.

FTFY. Your welcome.
Jeronica
Ryba.
White Squall.
#17 - 2015-03-11 19:28:12 UTC
Tykonderoga wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
Odracir Atosc wrote:
Is this a troll post ? Shocked


Yes. And not a very good one.



Typical response of someone who has nothing constructive to say.


I totally agree!! This troll isn't executed very well and has many holes in its plot.

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Judy Mikakka
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#18 - 2015-03-11 19:48:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Judy Mikakka
Tykonderoga wrote:
I propose that all sovereignty warfare revolve around capital and supercapital engagements in order to keep these ship classes relevant. I propose this as a counter-model to that proposed by CCP Fozzie. Subcaps have plenty to do in the game as it is, but capitals and supercapitals are seemingly running out of things to do.


Ok, This is fair enough, Supers and capitals are being pushed out of generally all their major roles in current SOV mechanics, put saying "I want all of it to revolve around these two classes of ships" Is somewhat of a stretch, blocking out all subcap use in any form of eve content is probably a bad thing.

Tykonderoga wrote:
-Hitpoints on player owned outposts will be doubled. Stations will have offensive capabilities, including capital guns and their own doomsdays. There will be no reinforcement timer on stations. This will encourage people to live in a particular system or risk losing their stuff.


Stations which fight back, and can doomsday? Just sounds a little out of this world, and have no reinforcement timer what so ever is bad, not all alliances can play in all time zones, if my alliance logs off at around 23:00, and an hour later the americans come on, and I wake up the next day, and ask, where is my station? What can I do?, Changes need to be made to this if you would really want to push it.

Tykonderoga wrote:
-Player owned outposts will be destructible and there will be a plunder reward once they are destroyed, meaning the stuff inside is salvageable or lootable.


I do like this idea, but it would need to tie into the change mentioned above, it will need a reinforcement timer, and maybe a longer line of mechanics to make it "Fair" for all players, instead of me just going into an unused system, and sitting on the station in an oracle for a couple of hours.

Tykonderoga wrote:
-Sovereignty will revert back to who has the majority of towers in a system. However, only one tower will have a reinforcement timer. All other towers will have to be defended when they are being attacked or else they will be lost.


Tower sov was an annoyance for all, just anchoring a tower on a moon and putting fuel in it, and if its attacked online it, would need some tweaking to it to make it viable, but the whole only one tower being reinforced is bad and shouldn't be done.

Tykonderoga wrote:
-Offensive and Defensive capabilities on POS will be significantly enhanced to require the use of supercapitals and capitals. No more reinforcing a POS with bomber fleets or Ishtars. These things will be hell to take down and not the pushovers they are now.


I do agree, PoS's need to be a threat again, but removing subcap content from this part of nullsec will be bad, yes it's fine to say you must need capitals and supercapitals to do it, but not everyone can fly one of those.

-NPC 0.0 will be a capital and supercapital free zone where smaller entities can brawl.

You can't really control a zone and say "NO YOU'RE NOT WELCOME HERE, YOU CAN'T SIT WITH US" control on that level is something CCP really wouldn't do.

More broadly, these pirate factions can conquer space and make that space capital and supercapital free zones as well.

Would be an interesting mechanic to see NPC rats, i guess, taking over surrounding parts of sov, would like to see a more in-depth write up about these mechanics.

-Finally, supercapitals will be able to be manufactured in low sec, allowing smaller entities to build their own super weapons. This should not just be a perk for true null-sec.

One of the issues with allowing supers/titans to be built in lowsec, is that there is a lot of lowsec, are their more requirements you're not telling us? Because if you just said "All lowsec." This would be bad, as supers and titans would be built in the hundreds on a daily basis; Maybe this could be tied into Faction Warfare space? Using the IHUBs as a source for upgrading, but on a whole I don't like the low sec super capital building.

In conclusion I do feel Super capitals, and Capitals need a change as their need in nullsec will be completely invalidated after these SOV changes, but removing complete subcap use is a bad idea and should be put away. some of the changes you have mentioned are interesting, but in a general sense of gameplay, don't make a giant load of sense, or entice me to want to play with them.

(I ran out of quotes at the end, sorry.)
Tykonderoga
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2015-03-11 19:56:35 UTC
Thanks for the constructive criticism.
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
#20 - 2015-03-11 20:51:40 UTC
Fozzie Sov, while it has issues, still beats this.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

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