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Petition: Remove Slaves from the SCC Markets.

Author
Aelisha
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#101 - 2015-03-09 15:18:30 UTC
Signed.

I may not be an Imperial citizen but I can respect their call that the trade be regulated and the market in slaves segregated such that only legitimate holders may trade in them.

If the Kingdom has a problem with the Amarrian defined petition in this thread, I urge them to take their cases to CONCORD. Either way this petition should see the inside of a CONCORD debate chamber, in my opinion.

As for Sansha, Sabik, Serpentis or Angel crocodile tears about their source of easy human bodies to feed into their various interests, I hope you drown in them. I'm sure the SCC is the least effective means of procurement non-signatories have at their disposal and think that any kow-towing to non-signatories on the part of the four empires would set a new low for current political affairs.

A potential compromise is a distinction between Imperial Slaves and Slaves, but then I'd ask why a practice (non-imperial slavery) deemed illegal in all of the signatory states, is being allowed to persist.

CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange

Intaki Reborn

Independent Capsuleer

TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#102 - 2015-03-09 17:42:43 UTC
Not signed

This petition is useless , pointless, removing slaves from the market will not stop the trade in slaves. Only turn the trade in slaves underground. Making it less regulated and controlled , worsening of conditions for the slaves themselves.

These kind of actions are typical of the liberal elite fascists.





Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#103 - 2015-03-09 18:16:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
TomHorn wrote:
Not signed

This petition is useless , pointless, removing slaves from the market will not stop the trade in slaves. Only turn the trade in slaves underground. Making it less regulated and controlled , worsening of conditions for the slaves themselves.

These kind of actions are typical of the liberal elite fascists.


Liberal? This is as conservative a measure as you can get.

Some information:

The slave trade in Amarr has been going on for thousands of years in legal planetside markets, between Holders. These are heavily regulated markets, which have very specific Scripture-defined rules about who can and cannot deal in slaves. These markets are not, and have never needed, the SCC.

During the liberalization and internationalism of our society in the last century, certain elements of our leadership agreed to participate in an extraplanetary CONCORD-created free market known as the SCC. In this unregulated open market, it was possible for people who have no legal right to slaves to acquire them. In this way, it is in fact the SCC that is an illegal market, by Amarrian laws, because it allows unscrupulous elements in Amarr society to bypass the normal regulations and restrictions of our local policies to sell to a wider base of people who have no legal or spiritual right to own slaves.

This proposal does not turn the trade underground. It returns it to local Amarrian planetside markets, under traditional regulations and policies. That makes it a conservative proposal, not a liberal one. Free market economies, of which the SCC is, is economic liberalism. Conservatism is preserving traditional values and systems. The divine right of Holders to be the sole legal owners of slaves is a traditional value, and our local planetside slave markets a traditional system.

If you had read what was posted, then you would know that this is not an abolitionist proposal and has no intent on stopping the trade. The intent of this, is to move the trade back to local markets, between certified Holders, under the traditions and regulations that have governed the slave trade in Amarr society for thousands of years.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#104 - 2015-03-09 19:20:37 UTC
Such petitions should be made by Trade Registry and MIO, not pushed by a bunch of soulless from every corner of New Eden on public venues with pirate loyalists in their midst.
Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#105 - 2015-03-09 20:05:44 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Such petitions should be made by Trade Registry and MIO, not pushed by a bunch of soulless from every corner of New Eden on public venues with pirate loyalists in their midst.


Until the Trade Registry, MIO, and other Amarr corporations and organizations do that, this is the best you will get and it certainly is better than nothing.

I believe the hope is that with enough voices, this will be carried onto organizations more powerful than the "soulless".

-Eran
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#106 - 2015-03-09 20:21:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Samira Kernher wrote:
TomHorn wrote:
Not signed

This petition is useless , pointless, removing slaves from the market will not stop the trade in slaves. Only turn the trade in slaves underground. Making it less regulated and controlled , worsening of conditions for the slaves themselves.

These kind of actions are typical of the liberal elite fascists.


Liberal? This is as conservative a measure as you can get.

Some information:

The slave trade in Amarr has been going on for thousands of years in legal planetside markets, between Holders. These are heavily regulated markets, which have very specific Scripture-defined rules about who can and cannot deal in slaves. These markets are not, and have never needed, the SCC.

During the liberalization and internationalism of our society in the last century, certain elements of our leadership agreed to participate in an extraplanetary CONCORD-created free market known as the SCC. In this unregulated open market, it was possible for people who have no legal right to slaves to acquire them. In this way, it is in fact the SCC that is an illegal market, by Amarrian laws, because it allows unscrupulous elements in Amarr society to bypass the normal regulations and restrictions of our local policies to sell to a wider base of people who have no legal or spiritual right to own slaves.

This proposal does not turn the trade underground. It returns it to local Amarrian planetside markets, under traditional regulations and policies. That makes it a conservative proposal, not a liberal one. Free market economies, of which the SCC is, is economic liberalism. Conservatism is preserving traditional values and systems. The divine right of Holders to be the sole legal owners of slaves is a traditional value, and our local planetside slave markets a traditional system.

If you had read what was posted, then you would know that this is not an abolitionist proposal and has no intent on stopping the trade. The intent of this, is to move the trade back to local markets, between certified Holders, under the traditions and regulations that have governed the slave trade in Amarr society for thousands of years.


While I agree, it is still true that removing the possibility for shady elements and slavers of the Amarr Empire to go through the SCC for their sales, will inevitably re route them to underground markets.

The main difference is mostly in the legal coverage it gets.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#107 - 2015-03-09 20:21:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Utari Onzo
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Such petitions should be made by Trade Registry and MIO, not pushed by a bunch of soulless from every corner of New Eden on public venues with pirate loyalists in their midst.


I believe Miss Kernher said it best earlier in this thread. This isn't about officially petitioning CONCORD or the Corporations and organisations involved, this is the faithful pleading to our betters to change the methods certain elements within the Empire that are selling slaves on the open SCC market against the will of God and the Scriptures. The best method I can see to enact change from our position, as capsuleers, is not by going through the painful bureaucracy of the Trade Registry, it's by appealing to the Holders and above them, the Heirs, to put this right.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#108 - 2015-03-09 21:01:37 UTC
Eran Mintor wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Such petitions should be made by Trade Registry and MIO, not pushed by a bunch of soulless from every corner of New Eden on public venues with pirate loyalists in their midst.


Until the Trade Registry, MIO, and other Amarr corporations and organizations do that, this is the best you will get and it certainly is better than nothing.

I believe the hope is that with enough voices, this will be carried onto organizations more powerful than the "soulless".

-Eran


Sorry but no, capsuleers shouldn't have a say in Imperial policies, especially foreigners. If this petishion was directed at the SCC and CONCORD I would be for it, but it's not.
Utari Onzo
Escalated.
OnlyFleets.
#109 - 2015-03-09 21:10:00 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Eran Mintor wrote:
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Such petitions should be made by Trade Registry and MIO, not pushed by a bunch of soulless from every corner of New Eden on public venues with pirate loyalists in their midst.


Until the Trade Registry, MIO, and other Amarr corporations and organizations do that, this is the best you will get and it certainly is better than nothing.

I believe the hope is that with enough voices, this will be carried onto organizations more powerful than the "soulless".

-Eran


Sorry but no, capsuleers shouldn't have a say in Imperial policies, especially foreigners. If this petishion was directed at the SCC and CONCORD I would be for it, but it's not.


This isn't about changing Imperial Policy, the scriptures and Imperial laws are quite clear that only Holders should control the trade of slaves. This is about certain elements of the Empire trading these slaves on the open market to any buyer on the SCC, holder or no. The SCC is not the party to blame as it is by its nature a free market, it is the organisations supplying slaves that are the issue.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#110 - 2015-03-09 21:10:08 UTC
What else can we do, Mr. Vellum?
Jade Blackwind
#111 - 2015-03-09 21:53:14 UTC
Signed!

Oh wait

hehe
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#112 - 2015-03-09 22:05:54 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
What else can we do, Mr. Vellum?

Petition SCC and CONCORD to change their policies for capsuleers in the Empire controlled regions, not the Imperial ones to chage theirs. Amarr Empire has appropriate organizations for solving such matters and it should be handled by them alone without capsuleers meddling in their business.

Also, what you and yours were doing for so long and keep up the hunt.
Siddhar Gangari
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
#113 - 2015-03-10 14:46:21 UTC
This petition is without claws. The Ammar will never restrict it's peoples' access to slaves; their frail civilization would slowly avalanche into total collapse.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#114 - 2015-03-10 15:12:23 UTC
Siddhar Gangari wrote:
This petition is without claws. The Ammar will never restrict it's peoples' access to slaves; their frail civilization would slowly avalanche into total collapse.

Try developing your reading comprehension. This petition is to cease the sale of slaves on the SCC. It has nothing to do with the Amarr at all - Concord would make the decision and the SCC would enforce it through the simple step.of delisting the commodities in question.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#115 - 2015-03-10 15:54:51 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Siddhar Gangari wrote:
This petition is without claws. The Ammar will never restrict it's peoples' access to slaves; their frail civilization would slowly avalanche into total collapse.

Try developing your reading comprehension. This petition is to cease the sale of slaves on the SCC. It has nothing to do with the Amarr at all - Concord would make the decision and the SCC would enforce it through the simple step.of delisting the commodities in question.



No, Pieter, it's not that.

It's to get Amarr authorities to make organizations like the Civic Court and Ammatar Consulate remove their standard sell orders from the SCC, and return to conducting their trade of slaves to local planetside markets only.


To Mr. Gangari: Restricting sale to just Holders was how we did it for thousands of years. We never collapsed then.
Vaako Omaristos
Doomheim
#116 - 2015-03-10 16:35:19 UTC
Signed.

I traded a lot of slaves on the market simply for cannon fodder when boarding enemy ships or the more intelligent ones as repair crews. i have since realised that by hiring true amarrian marines for this purpose my financial losses have decreased dramatically.

Trader, industrialist and thinker. Follow my progress on my 141 trading challenge here

Sarasvazhi
Doomheim
#117 - 2015-03-10 16:41:49 UTC
Restricting the human trade to planet side markets would contain an atrocity to the worlds of the filth perpetrating it, further distort the balance between capital and labor in Amarrian financial markets, and deny that Empire's ruling elite access to the ISK currency for one of its most despicable "assets." That sounds too good to be true.

On the other hand, this petition is an opportunity to reaffirm the validity of human trade. Is that the catch?
Alizebeth Amalath
Doomheim
#118 - 2015-03-10 17:00:10 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Siddhar Gangari wrote:
This petition is without claws. The Ammar will never restrict it's peoples' access to slaves; their frail civilization would slowly avalanche into total collapse.

Try developing your reading comprehension. This petition is to cease the sale of slaves on the SCC. It has nothing to do with the Amarr at all - Concord would make the decision and the SCC would enforce it through the simple step.of delisting the commodities in question.

No, Pieter, it's not that.

It's to get Amarr authorities to make organizations like the Civic Court and Ammatar Consulate remove their standard sell orders from the SCC, and return to conducting their trade of slaves to local planetside markets only.

Samira is correct. This is in relation to the Greater Amarrian organizations. I personally would not be upset if all slaves were removed from the SCC market, but that is not what this is about.
Barsam Akhtar
Doomheim
#119 - 2015-03-10 18:16:19 UTC
I shall add my signature to this noble cause.

The relationship between Holder and Slave is a holy covenant with God: the slave offers their blood and toil to God's greater glory, and the holder guides the spiritual maturation of the slave as a parent would a child until the slave is ready to take their place among God's own.

The selling of slaves on the open market is an open mockery of that holy covenant and drives us one step farther away from truly reclaiming all the peoples of humanity under God's one true rule.
Alizebeth Amalath
Doomheim
#120 - 2015-03-10 18:27:46 UTC
Barsam Akhtar wrote:
I shall add my signature to this noble cause.

The relationship between Holder and Slave is a holy covenant with God: the slave offers their blood and toil to God's greater glory . . .

Phrasing!