Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I've only ever set foot in null once, and even I think this is a bad idea.

It would be nice if lowsec mining followed the sort of mobile, semi-nomadic theme they seem to be going for with a lot of the new content. Small pockets of high value ores that could realistically be grabbed in Prospects, etc. but not farmed indefinitely seems far more reasonable than static belts full of Jaspet.

All player mining in eve should take place in anomalies. Belts belongs to the empires/factions that own them and should contain npc mining/hauling/escort ships that can be ganked for isk at a loss in standing from the owning faction(s).

Beginners can't find anomalies?

IMO they can leave the high-sec mining as it is, for the newbies and also for CODE to find barges to kill, that's fine. High sec is supposedly "safe" so we can feel free to spend a few hours sitting in a belt with a 100 mil ship (mining barge) getting some minerals.

Can't do that in low-sec though, which is why I was suggesting that the rocks themselves should support the ninja mining style; you do quick shots but you still end up with a decent amount of minerals (that you then have to figure out how to transport out of there).

And null is different too, almost any other activity makes more than mining, even though the rocks can be ok if the system is upgraded, just nobody likes to mine there; they'd much rather rat the belt NPCs, so a deployable that they can entosis might work for them. I don't really know.

It's all really contingent on CCP wanting mining to produce the supply of minerals (locally for high sec, locally for low sec, and locally for null), rather than reprocessing junk loot or whatever.

CCP want players in space. Players want investment structures to spur conflict and expand their income opportunities. Why not both?

On the face of it, mining isn't profitable. Too much supply? Not enough demand? Not enough war? Sure, ok.

I think it's more a problem that mining doesn't have enough different angles on which to compete. Low ends are the most in demand, and therefore comprise the bulk of value moved on the market. The real value of minerals is mainly governed by the difficulty of transport. Mining in empire is just as profitable as mining in WHs, ergo, no reason to move further from hubs or other places to sell and buy supplies.

In the first instance, address the scarcity problem. Put ABC ores in high sec, but only low density forms. In low, null and WHs, put increasingly higher density forms of ore.

Next, we deploy our investment isk. We put it in refineries. Refining is no longer instant, but takes time. Added investment improves refine times and refine returns. Empire mining at npc owned stations has unlimited capacity, but requires a big tax for an expedited job. Refining POS in empire have better returns, but are more limited in capacity and efficiency than those in unsecured space.

In null, player owned stations merely give a bonus to POS-based refineries. In station options are more limited in terms of capacity, speed and efficiency, because of the ease of taking stations and because of the lack of interruptibility. Freeport stations should be even worse than highsec stations. However, increased investment in POS throughout that system should have a cumulative effect on capacity, speed and efficiency.

As transport is so critical, make ore compression arrays only available in lowsec or other unsecure space.


The next big question is, how do we get Rorquals out of POS and into belts? So many possible answers.

It has to be possible for miners and hostiles to be the same system for more than a minute without relying on local "tank". WH mining doesn't really show us a solution. If we merely put delays in the system, it simply reinforces local tanking. So we need mechanisms that make both parties suspect they have equal chance to pursue their respective goals. We need miners to believe they can keep mining, and hunters to think they can keep mining, with neither being truly certain of the outcome. You can't make a game around timers. Let me repeat that. You can't make a game around timers.

What we have to have, is a game of hide and seek. To this end, expand belts. A lot. A lot a lot. Like across multiple grids. Next, add scan inhibitor effects to asteroids themselves. Spread the asteroids apart a fair bit. So long as the miner is mining next to the asteroid, he's invisible on d-scan. If he's traveling between asteroids, not so invisible. If he pops the asteroid, not so invisible. Hunters enjoy the same stealth though, even if they don't already have cloaks. To make it a game for the hunters, and to make travel a real logistical concern for the industrialists, we add an invisible warp bubble of varying size to each asteroid. A hud status icon would be handy. In order to be invisible, you have to be inside the warp bubble. On the plus side, no-one can land right on you.

So what kind of player assets does that make people employ? MWD Miasmos will be handy for those starting out. Invisible Prorators using covert cynos will probably have some success too. Orcas will increase the longevity of field operations, and Rorquals can decrease the vulnerability of sending out industrials to do the running, but will that really get capitals in the belts? Probably only if they had some mechanic like deadspace, which only the very slow capital ships could undermine. Perhaps if Rorquals could cyno over to covert cynosural fields spawned by faster moving Prospectors and Blockade runner transports, then they could get in the field with reasonable ease.

The only thing that would govern whether miners and stealth bombers or recons can play cat and mouse for hours is determined by the size of the asteroid fields. Personally, I think New Eden should feel as big as it really is.

Well obviously. I can't think my thoughts in someone else's brain.

What's the average, 10M an hour or so?

More importantly, what's the fun per hour?

No ...thats what we all think

first of all mining barges have not turrets
industrials have useless turrets (so no effective turrets )

ganking is fine if there is a a balance in the opportunity to fight back ,but gankers can just shoot you ....untill concord comes in the belt so it is NOT FINE

""how much combat capable do you want them"" well i would say the size of a combat cruiser ( 1*_first option-)
the reason for that is>> the value of the ship<<
""if you carry phat enough loot its always a suicide squad"" well that counts for every loot carrying vessel so also a loot filled industrial or mining vessel

or they upgrade the industrial and the barge, or they nerf the catalyst to kingdom come and we never see that tactic back again

when this situation is still in the game
there allways be complayned about that particular item
that will NEVER NEVER NEVER STOP

gankers on unarmed vessels are a glitch in the game
exept when i can defend myself to destroy those pilots
then there is BALANCE
untill then

i declare this game bugged

idea: and solution for mining vessels (2*-second option-)
(a solution )when a strip miner target a catalyst ( with his strip miner crystals) it will obliterate it ....
(the damage value is depending on the kind of crystal the stripminer is loaded with)

so no extra slots has to be added to the vessel

SO..... there is your balance....

well.. for the mining barges drones are there to kill rats.... not catalysts..
a stripminer can target a rock and let it melt
but if it is target at a catalyst the system goes offline
funny... dont you think..