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Ship for lvl 4 missions
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chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#21 - 2015-03-02 13:40:03 UTC
Lol what ever happened to:
Donnachadh wrote:

Just another opinion, not to argue with the others.

But it's cool, arguments can be fun

Donnachadh wrote:

I was going to let this one go with no comment but the more I thought about it the more I realized that was just not going to happen.

At first you tell us that your large guns do not have "serious trouble" hitting small fast targets.
Yet in the same paragraph you go on to tell us that you have trouble/cannot hit spider drones and frigates that "start under your guns".

So one has to wonder which of these contradictory statement is the truth?
The way I see this if you do not have serious trouble hitting targets then the spider drones cause no problems because you can hit them easily, and there is no such thing as a ship "getting under your guns".
If you cannot hit a class of ships because they are to fast or they get under your guns then you are having "serious trouble" trying to hit them.

I was unaware that your idea of "serious trouble" was somewhere in the neighborhood of possible/occasional issues hitting a couple frigates/spider drones in maybe about 3 missions. This is compared to the golem, which always has issues. Similar to the offer in the other thread... Pick a mission you think turrets will have "serious trouble" with frigates, do a vid with your golem, and I will show you a vid of a turret boat outperforming it. Personally I'd recommend a mission like buzz kill, but hey, you pick. Somehow though, I think that you like the conviction to actually attempt to prove your claims...

Donnachadh wrote:

Try cruise with the tech 2 fury they hit as hard as your guns.

.... you do understand that turrets (with the exception of arty) cycle faster than your missiles right and hit instantly?
I have a golem and marauders V. I do run missions with it... T2 fury cruises are the ammo I use most frequently.

Donnachadh wrote:

For the small fast stuff switch to precision and they hit stuff with near large gun level damage but the increased explosion velocity and decreased explosion radius in effect make them track like small to medium turret weapons. So there is yet another of those advantages to the missile platforms. Not only can we tailor our damage to hit the resist holes (something that is not always possible with turrets) but we can tailor it to the specific needs to efficiently kill all classes of ships.

Are you trolling at this point?....
As an example, there are some frigs in my golem that I can kill using 1 launcher ( i.e. using only 1 of the 4 launchers), if I have all my painters on the target. Best case scenario, launchers are going to be killing about 1 frigate every 5 secs (the tp cycle time). How does that remotely compare to a vargur destroying 2-4 frigates every 3 seconds? And that is before considering that the golem usually needs to take time to reload in order to use precision, because everything else in the room is better done with fury cruise.

Donnachadh wrote:

As they say been there and done that.
And the Amarr laser BS, Gallente blaster ships, artillery ships and drones ships, even tried the Nightmare cause I was told it was the boss when it comes to level 4's. But in the end since I run missions in all 4 factions space against all of the NPC and I really do not like hauling multiple lvl 4 ships all over the EvE universe the extreme versatility of the missile platforms is hard to say no to.
So when a player asks about which ship is best and we do not know where they will be running mission, what type of ship they like to fly(turrets,drones, missiles) or whether they want to blitz or clear and salvage it is hard not to recommend the most versatile of them all the missile platforms.

So I will repeat myself if you like turret based ships then fly them and have fun.


You've made several claims... "fly them and have fun" would be fine.... if you werent starting arguments about how missiles are the superior weapon system. So concerning your claim of the Golem and turret boats "balancing out" when it comes to frigates... I'd say.. prove it. It doesnt work the way you think it does and I have first hand experience of this both using the golem myself and flying a vargur with another golem in the mission room. How about posting a video of your golem clearing frigates in a mission like buzz kill, mordus headhunters, vengeance (in a variation that has alot of frigs), etc. and I'll post a vid of the same mission in a turret boat to show the time difference.
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#22 - 2015-03-03 14:56:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Estella Osoka
My personal preferences are Paladin, Vargur, and Kronos.

Marauders with Bastion mod do not need to worry about EWAR, except NOS.

Any turret BS with MJD do not need to worry about frigates getting under their turrets. Marauders get a bonus to MJDs.

Any turret BS with a mobile depot does not need to worry about range. Autos not working? Switch to Arty.

Marauders are best for full clear and salvaging. Especially when supplemented with a MTU.


I can fly a Golem. I don't because I hate the fact I have to wait for the missiles to get to the target. This also usually results in wasted volleys until you get the hang of knowing how many volleys it takes to kill a target.

I can fly a Rattlesnake. I don't because while the paper DPS looks nice, the actual damage application is far different.


BTW, as to the range of a Vargur, it's falloff is closer to 50km now.

EDIT: Just wanted to add one thing, having a different mission boat in each region is not a bad thing to do. Especially in the current gank happy EVE universe we live in.
stoicfaux
#23 - 2015-03-04 04:16:38 UTC
Uhm... why are you all killing the spider drones? Being webbed by spider drones helps you to warp out faster when the mission is done.

Also, Vargur is generally faster than a Golem due to the advantages that guns have over missiles.

NPC frigates are a lot less of a problem for gunships, especially with the Vargur's 3 second cycle time and it's ability to ungroup guns and still be effective. (Ungrouping cruise missiles is bad because NPC defender launch chances are checked per salvo.)

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#24 - 2015-03-04 10:16:30 UTC  |  Edited by: chaosgrimm
stoicfaux wrote:
Uhm... why are you all killing the spider drones? Being webbed by spider drones helps you to warp out faster when the mission is done.

Also, Vargur is generally faster than a Golem due to the advantages that guns have over missiles.

NPC frigates are a lot less of a problem for gunships, especially with the Vargur's 3 second cycle time and it's ability to ungroup guns and still be effective. (Ungrouping cruise missiles is bad because NPC defender launch chances are checked per salvo.)


Sometimes you need to kill the spider drones :(. Some examples would be silence the informant or serpentis extravaganza. And even then, not all spider drones are tough to kill, vargur wont have problems with the silence the informant spider drones. But yeah, needing to kill them is pretty rare and for most missions skipping them is the best option.
Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2015-03-04 18:18:56 UTC
Recently put a Rattlesnake together. 1450dps... about 30% more than I could get out of a Golem or RNI and missile skills are almost perfect (cruise spec IV i think, but 2% ROF would be negligible) as far as ROF and DMG. Also costs considerably less.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2015-03-05 00:18:49 UTC
It also depends what people mean by "best".

My Rattler clears missions faster than my Dominix but is more work. The Dominix is a semi-afk easy mode level IV mission ship but slower to clear a room. The Dominix works particularly well in Minmatar space against angels with bouncers.

Also both my fits are MJD range tanked which means neither fit is all that effective against Gurista with their 150km+ stupidly long cruise missile range. Against Gurista any close range turret ship would be better.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#27 - 2015-03-05 05:58:29 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
It also depends what people mean by "best".

My Rattler clears missions faster than my Dominix but is more work. The Dominix is a semi-afk easy mode level IV mission ship but slower to clear a room. The Dominix works particularly well in Minmatar space against angels with bouncers.

Also both my fits are MJD range tanked which means neither fit is all that effective against Gurista with their 150km+ stupidly long cruise missile range. Against Gurista any close range turret ship would be better.


at 100km+ guritstas are doing almost all kinetic damage and are easy to tank. close range turret ships may or may not be good as many guristas have a tendency to spawn and/or orbit at 50km+ I tend to prefer mid-long range for guristas. blasters/ACs just feel ineffective overall.

ah well, I ran caldari missions for years to 9.90 standings and tbh guristas missions aren't even real. literately the least important highsec lv4 faction. If every mission was vs guristas that would be pretty cool as they are so blitzable.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
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