Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I don't think this will change the use of the Ishtar in fleets enough.

Just buffing battleships fittings in general would also achieve that. Make arti boats and apocs be able to fit the large gusn more easily while still fielding a tank and suddenly ishtars take heavy losses on the fight.

But still.. the ishtar outclassed ALL other hacs and it needed a serious nerf.

Would it be terrible if the Ishtar and the Eos swapped bonuses?


I mean, look at the two. The Eos would be great (but not OP due to lack of mids) and the Ishtar would receive the nerf it deserves.

Ishtar:

Gallente cruiser skill bonus per level:

10% bonus to drone hitpoint and damage
7.5% bonus to hybrid turret tracking speed

HAC skill bonus per level:

7.5% bonus to Heavy drone tracking
7.5% bonus to Heavy drone max velocity

Eos:

Gallente Battlecruiser skill bonus per level:

10% bonus to drone hitpoint and damage
7.5% bonus to armour repairer amount

Command ship skill bonus per level:

7.5% bonus to Drone optimal range and Tracking
5km bonus to drone control range


Would this be terrible or would it not simply fix the Ishtar problem but give all the PvE'rs and others the Ishtar capability in a heavier, slower package that favours armour over speed?

The VNI can also stay as is as it's not as bonkers as the Ishtar and this would also differentiate it fully from the Ishtar instead of just being a crappy, baby Ishtar

This seems rather reasonable. As someone in...either this thread or another thread I have lost track because there's been so many of these over the years...anyway as someone said once, the EOS could potentially replace Ishtars for the spamming of sentry drones. But Battlecruisers, and especially command battlecruisers which require charisma, take a lot longer to train. So people are less likely to train for them en masse. Will some? Absolutely. But the EOS has a lot less mobility, making the use of it a lot more balanced than an Ishtar.

However, this still doesn't solve a fundamental problem:

Sentry drones still don't belong in the game. They have all of the advantages of drones, with almost none of the drawbacks. Their innate nature unbalances power dynamics within classes. As I've said previously, that an ishtar can put out a flight of kinetic drones, or EM drones, negates the entirety of two other sniper HACs.

Sentry drones have pure damage selection, long range, no ammo, no cap, (mostly) immune from EWAR (you'd have to ewar all 5 at once to actually have the same effect as EWAR-ing a single turret ship), aggression independent of being able to lock, instant damage application, up to 50 can be assigned to a single trigger ship...they're better than turrets or missiles in dang near every way. Their drawbacks are highly limited and mostly mitigated through good piloting and fleet tactics.

Everything that balances drones, missiles, and turrets goes out the window with sentries. They will, by their very nature, NEVER be balanced in this game. They can't be because they provide most or all of the best parts of both turrets and missiles at the same time.

As a person who, yes, has invested in Ishtars and sentries, both in isk and in training, I don't have a doubt in my mind that this game would be better off without sentries. I want them gone. Even if, and especially because, it'll hurt my PvE and PvP abilities, which with sentries, are far too one-sided. Everything is just so easy with sentries.

For clarity, I should say yes, I'm aware sentries and ishtars are fully beatable. I've never said they were invincible. Just that they offer far too many advantages without the sorts of drawbacks that keep other weapon systems balanced.

Actually, non application bonused sentries are about right. Certainly balancable.

At the moment BC/BS are in a pretty bad spot, which is a real shame. Nobody is going to change from an Ishtar to a Mym/Domi with this pass, I can't see how you expect more diversity when the only change is a reduction to sentry drone dps.

1- remove 5% tracking bonus to sentry and replace it by 5% damage bonus so it become 5% to optimal and damage
2- change the 10% damage bonus so it only affect heavy, light and medium drones
3- remove a mid and add a low (let's be honest you guys cling to that 5mid bull **** and avoid talking about it even if its one of the most OP thing on this ship)
4- remove control range bonus and add 4% armor bonus

Problem solved you have a normal hac with the role it should have since the first change not that stupid kiting 5 mid monster you gave us for no damn reason.

I'm sure this has been stated, didn't take the time to read the whole thread. One of the most blatant things that I see in respect to the Ishtar compared to the other HACs is the fact that the Ishtar has way too many bonuses. Forget about the fittings for a minute.

Compare the Ishtar to the Deimos:
Ishtar:
Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage
7.5% bonus to Heavy Drone max velocity *and* tracking speed

Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level):
5000m bonus to Drone operation range
5% bonus to Sentry Drone optimal range *and* tracking speed

Deimos:
Gallente Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):
7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer amount

Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level):
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage
10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff

Muninn
Minmatar Cruiser bonuses (per skill level):
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret damage

Heavy Assault Cruisers bonuses (per skill level):
10% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret optimal range
7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret tracking speed

Looking at HAC's on a whole, most have 4 bonuses (Not counting the role bonus), others have 3 (such as the Deimos), the Ishtar has a blatant 5, which could be argued higher in some cases.

When you directly compare the Ishtar hull to all other HAC hulls (Without looking at bonuses) On paper it is a sub par ship. The only logical thing to point to are the hull bonuses. Given the bonuses of the hull currently, there is little reason to fit more than 2 omni tracking, and I can't say I've seen any reason to fit a drone link augmenter, which is the reason why it's so open for utility/survivability fits.

One should not be able to maximize dps from a hull without sacrificing other aspects of it.

A very sexy suggestion.

ishtar as a brawler is just a bad idea, the gila would trump it every time comfortably.