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Crime & Punishment

 
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Suspect timers for stealing loot
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Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2015-02-27 16:03:29 UTC
Sinc you're stealing the loot from the rats in the first place, I see no reason why other players shpuld be penalized for stealing it first. Ostensibly rats are pirates and bad, but capsuleers are essentially amoral and when you warp into a mission the rats are justsitting there not bothering anyone until you show up to kick their ass and take their loot.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Paranoid Loyd
#22 - 2015-02-27 16:14:48 UTC
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Sinc you're stealing the loot from the rats in the first place, I see no reason why other players shpuld be penalized for stealing it first. Ostensibly rats are pirates and bad, but capsuleers are essentially amoral and when you warp into a mission the rats are justsitting there not bothering anyone until you show up to kick their ass and take their loot.

No one is talking about stealing rat loot. They are talking about gank loot.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#23 - 2015-02-27 16:36:31 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
Sinc you're stealing the loot from the rats in the first place, I see no reason why other players shpuld be penalized for stealing it first. Ostensibly rats are pirates and bad, but capsuleers are essentially amoral and when you warp into a mission the rats are justsitting there not bothering anyone until you show up to kick their ass and take their loot.

No one is talking about stealing rat loot. They are talking about gank loot.

Well, some of the gank loot could have started out as rat loot. So, by that count, suicide gankers should* be getting standings buffs to the NPC pirate factions for liberating their stolen loot.


*should not, because that would be about as silly as the other obviously silly posts here.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#24 - 2015-02-27 18:06:01 UTC
Renegade Heart wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
So the AG dudes are once again too bad to play the game and demand changes from CCP. What a surprise.


All of them? Lol

Yes

They also look the same, all of them

Evil RatKid
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#25 - 2015-02-28 00:37:56 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

Don't you think it's a bit silly that the only way to fight ganking is to go -10 yourself? The best way to fight CODE tactically is to simply mirror their methods to kill the expensive gank-enabling ships.

I have to train a gank alt to play the good guy. It makes no sense.


Except for the part where you can shoot them regardless, since most of them are neg ten to begin with.

Once again I must question if you actually play this game.


Emphasis on "gank-enabling". He's saying gank the bumping machariels, which would work if whinebears had less whine and more fortitude.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Drez Arthie
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2015-02-28 01:56:28 UTC
admiral root wrote:


Emphasis on "gank-enabling". He's saying gank the bumping machariels, which would work if whinebears had less whine and more fortitude.


You know a powerful player who did not need ego reinforcement would not notice whether anyone was whining because of his ganking
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#27 - 2015-02-28 02:36:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Drez Arthie wrote:
admiral root wrote:


Emphasis on "gank-enabling". He's saying gank the bumping machariels, which would work if whinebears had less whine and more fortitude.


You know a powerful player who did not need ego reinforcement would not notice whether anyone was whining because of his ganking
Given the sheer amount of whining that occurs because of ganking, the only people that don't notice it are those that either don't use the forums or don't play Eve.

The consensual/non consensual PvP argument isn't unique to Eve, the insidious carebear menace is present in many games that allow PvP; the GTA forums are an amusing read, especially in relation to online mode...

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#28 - 2015-02-28 02:38:47 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

Don't you think it's a bit silly that the only way to fight ganking is to go -10 yourself? The best way to fight CODE tactically is to simply mirror their methods to kill the expensive gank-enabling ships.

I have to train a gank alt to play the good guy. It makes no sense.


Except for the part where you can shoot them regardless, since most of them are neg ten to begin with.

Once again I must question if you actually play this game.


Emphasis on "gank-enabling". He's saying gank the bumping machariels, which would work if whinebears had less whine and more fortitude.


Why would you gank the Machariels instead of just using a web alt?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-02-28 06:20:42 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

Don't you think it's a bit silly that the only way to fight ganking is to go -10 yourself? The best way to fight CODE tactically is to simply mirror their methods to kill the expensive gank-enabling ships.

I have to train a gank alt to play the good guy. It makes no sense.


Except for the part where you can shoot them regardless, since most of them are neg ten to begin with.

Once again I must question if you actually play this game.
I wasn't aware the bumping machariels and loot scooping haulers were -10. I think you misunderstood my comment. I'm fully aware that I can freely blap empty pods and disposable catalysts.
Sibyyl
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-02-28 07:46:27 UTC

I don't think he was saying that Xeno. Loot scoopers likely aren't -10, but you shouldn't be shooting scoopers anyway, just the wrecks. And I'm sure you know that the first loot scooper gets suspect for scooping so you should be shooting/scramming that fellow without penalty.

As for Machs.. well that's just the price of having fun, and bumping Machs are made of paper.

Joffy Aulx-Gao for CSM. Fix links and OGB. Ban stabs from plexes. Fulfill karmic justice.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#31 - 2015-02-28 08:05:10 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
I wasn't aware the bumping machariels and loot scooping haulers were -10.


You don't need to shoot those in the first place. Use a webbing alt and you've gotten past them.

Now, if you're actually willing to shoot things, you might as well shoot the freighter wrecks for better effect.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#32 - 2015-03-02 14:13:28 UTC
I think his point was that if you gank a ganker then the security status penalty should not apply to the same degree, perhaps a sliding scale on the security scale would be fair and equitable. It does seem however that CCP has issues in looking at some of its criminalisation mechanics which defy logic, though looking at where I live it seems that real life is actually getting closer and closer to Eve!

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#33 - 2015-03-02 17:33:52 UTC
I'm struggling to see why getting a larger sec status hit for shooting someone who has shot more NPCs than someone else is either fair or equitable to anyone.

Sec status is not a real measure of anything.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#34 - 2015-03-02 21:38:58 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I'm struggling to see why getting a larger sec status hit for shooting someone who has shot more NPCs than someone else is either fair or equitable to anyone.

Sec status is not a real measure of anything.


I think you misunderstood what I was suggesting on what I think he said, personally I think its just a better idea to train a Gank alt, though using ones main is also fun, if only that Macherial had not fitted a DCU, so shot the next best thing... Big smile

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Asia Leigh
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#35 - 2015-03-02 22:03:38 UTC
4 solutions to your problem.

1. Suicide gank their orca, DST /or their freighter.

2. Shoot their transfer ships that go suspect when they loot. While you may not get any loot, you can make it a pain in the ass for them to operate efficiently and you may get lucky.

3. Grab whatever loot you can and GTFO before you get shot.

4. Suicide gank the wreck itself and deny the loot all-together.

Stop being lazy and stop trying to get CCP to do your work for you, and use the tools you have at your disposal to do what you want to try and accomplish.
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#36 - 2015-03-02 23:21:12 UTC
Asia Leigh wrote:
4 solutions to your problem.

1. Suicide gank their orca, DST /or their freighter.

2. Shoot their transfer ships that go suspect when they loot. While you may not get any loot, you can make it a pain in the ass for them to operate efficiently and you may get lucky.

3. Grab whatever loot you can and GTFO before you get shot.

4. Suicide gank the wreck itself and deny the loot all-together.

Stop being lazy and stop trying to get CCP to do your work for you, and use the tools you have at your disposal to do what you want to try and accomplish.



Slow down there Speed Racer. That all requires effort and learning.
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#37 - 2015-03-02 23:53:58 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Renegade Heart wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
So the AG dudes are once again too bad to play the game and demand changes from CCP. What a surprise.


All of them? Lol

Yes

They also look the same, all of them


Ridiculous trolls.
Talos Antilles
Doomheim
#38 - 2015-03-03 05:32:39 UTC
Elana Apgar wrote:
People taking or handling the stolen loot should all go suspect.


Do you have any clue what this would do to the game code and databases? Not only would items have the ITEM ID that tells what they are, but they would have a unique identifier IN ADDITION TO the ITEM ID. Each and every singular item would have to exist as a unique record (see: IUID, item unique identification). The result is an exponential growth in server databases and data caches on clients. Stacking items? Irrevocably broken, without MORE code to assign ANOTHER identifier for the group of items. More database records, larger data caches.

I understand your frustration, but in a game that is far more dynamic in terms of asset accountability than any RL business in existence (creation, transfer, destruction), it is way beyond feasible to implement. I was a project manager for an effort to incorporate IUID into a DoD logistics system, and it was a nightmare - and that was on a scale far smaller than the logistics involved in EVE.
Talos Antilles
Doomheim
#39 - 2015-03-03 05:42:13 UTC
Futt Isimazu wrote:
OP's idea, assuming no LEGACYCODE problems, is simple.

Stolen items have a 'stolen' tag until the ship containing them docks in a station. Anyone who picks up an item with a 'stolen' tag is rendered suspect.




How do you differentiate between a stolen item and a legally-owned item in the same container (cargo hold, fleet hangar, station bay, freight container) when they have the same item id, and that is the only identifier they have?

Not so simple.
Chenguang Hucel-Ge
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2015-03-03 08:55:41 UTC
Talos Antilles wrote:
Futt Isimazu wrote:
OP's idea, assuming no LEGACYCODE problems, is simple.

Stolen items have a 'stolen' tag until the ship containing them docks in a station. Anyone who picks up an item with a 'stolen' tag is rendered suspect.




How do you differentiate between a stolen item and a legally-owned item in the same container (cargo hold, fleet hangar, station bay, freight container) when they have the same item id, and that is the only identifier they have?

Not so simple.

In terms of spaceships, we can easily pass these flags to ALL items of the same id, nullifying them as fast as any suspect gets killed, timer running out or reaching safety (Either POS shield or station). It worked in Morrowind, kinda, but there was problem that ownership flags were permanent.

Also, the problem with someone else's fleet hangar is that there is no even small delay between steal and safety. You just throw stolen directly in fleet hangar, not holding it even for 1 ms. Add 2 seconds to it - and you've got something that remotely looks like fair game.