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Covert Cyno in Highsec

Author
Alexei Stryker
Council of Stellar Erections
#21 - 2015-03-02 22:09:43 UTC
Kestral Anneto wrote:
your kidding right? that would be to much like common sense, after all its a COVERT cyno, designed not to be detected, ofc it can be blocked, to protect the highsec carebears.
On a serious note, i've always wondered why you cant light it in highsec, it would give us a way of actually smuggling stuff, and as someone said before, its not exactly cheap, plus it promotes teamwork as it requires two people, and if not teamwork, its requires an alt, which is more money for CCP, everyone wins.


It requires not only 1 alt but 2 alts... 1 to light the cyno... 1 to go through and 1 that lights a cyno for going back.
If CCP allows this.. I would certainly reactivate my 3rd alt.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#22 - 2015-03-02 23:03:36 UTC
With the addition of covert cynos to highsec, we can help spread AFK cloaking paranoia to the highsec masses!


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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#23 - 2015-03-02 23:24:31 UTC
It would be wonderful is those anti-ganking groups could be able to hot drop into bumping interdictions.

Of course the deep dark secret is that the PVPers are in highsec for the same reason that the people in highsec are in highsec.

And being hotdropped (every time) is one of them.

One of the reasons why players don't HTFU and "do something about it instead of crying to CCP" is because ganks and hyperdunking happen fast.

So yeah, why deny the highsec PVPer the same joy they came to highsec to get away from?

See how that works? A two way street in this game means a good time will be had by all.

(Honestly I don't see a reason NOT to have covert cynos in highsec. The term "covert" applies. They let us cloak in highsec so... )

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#24 - 2015-03-02 23:32:08 UTC
With the jump changes and fatigue, cynos and capitals should be allowed in high sec. If for nothing more than giving the Raven leveling crowd something bigger to power level toward (and lose in a most glorious fashion before the door hits them on the ass).
Melanine
Covert Intelligence Agency
#25 - 2015-03-03 01:30:21 UTC
+1 for this product and/or service.

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Jenshae Chiroptera
#26 - 2015-03-03 01:58:28 UTC
Alexa Stryker wrote:
I don't see any problems allowing (covert cynos) in High sec imho.
Too many neutrals.

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Miss Masquerade
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-03-03 02:18:50 UTC
Can't put my finger on it, but something about this idea smells...

..no, it reeks...



..of evil...
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-03-03 03:54:12 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
It would be wonderful is those anti-ganking groups could be able to hot drop into bumping interdictions.

Of course the deep dark secret is that the PVPers are in highsec for the same reason that the people in highsec are in highsec.

And being hotdropped (every time) is one of them.

One of the reasons why players don't HTFU and "do something about it instead of crying to CCP" is because ganks and hyperdunking happen fast.

So yeah, why deny the highsec PVPer the same joy they came to highsec to get away from?

See how that works? A two way street in this game means a good time will be had by all.

(Honestly I don't see a reason NOT to have covert cynos in highsec. The term "covert" applies. They let us cloak in highsec so... )


I agree with the analogy of HTFU. 98% of the EVE learning curve is figuring out the list of stuff you don't do in the game of EVE, the game of don't do stuff. It doesn't apply to high sec though. Unless you are war dec or have a kill right on you, there is no chance of you being high sec hot dropped.

Harmonics 2. There are a total of 17 ships in the game that have it. They are the only ones that can use a covert bridge and a covert cyno. 5 of them are Industrial. None of them can make use of a covert cyno without a covert bridge. (and a T2 battleship hull to fit it)

There are 4 ships worth mentioning that don't have Harmonics 2. They are the Black Ops Battleship hulls and they can use the bridge module and the cyno. Unlike the Titan, you can never use a Black Ops battleship to bridge anything but the other 17. No condition allows you to hot drop 6 Catalysts in to a .5 sec belt to gank a hulk. It can't be done.

Worse theoretical scenario is, someone declares war, uses a neutral in fleet to bridge in bunch of war buddies and catch you AFK mining while your corporation is at war. Hope you aren't bait and have a similar counter move.
- Keep in mind, you are in high sec, you still can't use bombs so your hot drop options are force recon, combat recon don't have Harmonics 2, Torpedo fit Bombers and covert Ops (if they even count) and of course Black Ops fleets. If you jump the Black Ops, you take cap drain, the same as all jump capable ships. Bridging them requires some to stay back to facilitate the bridge.

As I said earlier, Black Ops hot dropping in High Sec is a fabricated myth. We have a test server. CCP can find that out for themselves there. The volume of logistics to see this through wen you could just as easy camp Jita 4, IV?

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#29 - 2015-03-03 04:18:08 UTC
Alexa Stryker wrote:
Is there a logical reason why Covewrt Cynos is not allowed in high sec? I don't see any problems allowing them in High sec imho.

Probably because it would create another exception in the code, which CCP hates, as it leads to hard to maintain and buggy code.
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#30 - 2015-03-03 05:53:26 UTC
Alexa Stryker wrote:
Is there a logical reason why Covewrt Cynos is not allowed in high sec? I don't see any problems allowing them in High sec imho.
What would be the point? Is there a logical reason to subvert high sec into homogenious sec to make a handful of players who think they're game designing geniuses happy?

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

Alexei Stryker
Council of Stellar Erections
#31 - 2015-03-03 09:56:34 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Alexa Stryker wrote:
Is there a logical reason why Covewrt Cynos is not allowed in high sec? I don't see any problems allowing them in High sec imho.

Probably because it would create another exception in the code, which CCP hates, as it leads to hard to maintain and buggy code.


If that creates a hard to maintain exception in the code... Then shame on you software architect... shame on you...

Pok Nibin wrote:
What would be the point? Is there a logical reason to subvert high sec into homogenious sec to make a handful of players who think they're game designing geniuses happy?

Your reasoning is not logical at all.


Maybe CCP Falcon could enlighten us? Aliens maybe?
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Ripoff Works
#32 - 2015-03-03 13:14:39 UTC
Alexei Stryker wrote:
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Alexa Stryker wrote:
Is there a logical reason why Covewrt Cynos is not allowed in high sec? I don't see any problems allowing them in High sec imho.

Probably because it would create another exception in the code, which CCP hates, as it leads to hard to maintain and buggy code.


If that creates a hard to maintain exception in the code... Then shame on you software architect... shame on you...

Pok Nibin wrote:
What would be the point? Is there a logical reason to subvert high sec into homogenious sec to make a handful of players who think they're game designing geniuses happy?

Your reasoning is not logical at all.


Maybe CCP Falcon could enlighten us? Aliens maybe?



Actually, changing that is simply changing a single flag in the settings for all highsec systems
Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Ripoff Works
#33 - 2015-03-03 23:54:16 UTC
PhantomMajor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2015-03-04 03:17:34 UTC
+1 for the hi sec hot droppers Big smile
Kiandoshia
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2015-03-04 07:25:42 UTC
Sisohiv wrote:
Adriana Nolen wrote:
Cause some of us would use it to move around exclusively.


This is the answer after all the posturing and scare mongering is cut away.

Black Ops Hot dropping is a closet monster. Covert Cyno is not the same as standard. The cheapest hull that can light one is 15 mill, no fit and like all cyno ships, it's a throw away in a hostile scenario. The restrictions on what can bridge with covert are pretty tight. You won't be suicide ganking with covert drops. They will be war dec only drops and the overall cost of making it happen for a limited engagement opportunity that starts with a 15 Mill+ loss is counter productive to the Industrial griefing that is, War Dec.

On the other hand, I could in many cases skip gates with an Industrial BlOps bridge network. It would wipe out the cattle farms like Uedama and Perimeter, kill gate camping in low sec, high sec connection systems and other choke point positions like Orvolle/ Pf.

I honestly don't think it's the issue CCP think it is. Most players are used to moving goods in large holds and would view the 12K max of a Prorator as inadequate, add in the logistics and ISK to set up a covert net in high sec. It might also be a coding issue. They can't do covert cyno without doing all, short of writing all new code for one or the other.


12k is a little inadequate for the people who make the cattle farms?

If you could do that level of logistics in a BR, why do we even have freighters and the like? Sure, blops ccyno chain around highsec... Even BRs build up quite a lot of jump AIDS going back and forth across those for larger distances.
Jane Shapperd
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2015-03-04 07:37:22 UTC
i see 2 reasons why covert cyno isnt allowed in high

1- too many neutrals : you will have no idea when to safe up if you are in a war dec .
as anyone can hot drop you .

2 - safety in moving expensive loots : you could use a covert industral to move a **** ton of plexes safely .

undock warp to instant undock warp , warp to black op in a safe spot or a tower .

get bridged . warp to instant dock and dock .

you moved a **** ton of isk with less than 0.00000000001% risk.
Alexa Stryker
Council of Stellar Erections
#37 - 2015-03-04 10:10:12 UTC
Jane Shapperd wrote:
i see 2 reasons why covert cyno isnt allowed in high

1- too many neutrals : you will have no idea when to safe up if you are in a war dec .
as anyone can hot drop you .

2 - safety in moving expensive loots : you could use a covert industral to move a **** ton of plexes safely .

undock warp to instant undock warp , warp to black op in a safe spot or a tower .

get bridged . warp to instant dock and dock .

you moved a **** ton of isk with less than 0.00000000001% risk.


Sounds very logical...

A Family that incest together, stays together

Arden Elenduil
Unlimited Ripoff Works
#38 - 2015-03-04 11:38:25 UTC
and you couldn't do this before in a blockade runner anyhow?
I mean, it's not like they have unscannable cargo holds....oh wait
Stalence
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#39 - 2015-03-04 14:24:10 UTC
Bump.

Please make this happen. I don't think it would be game breaking in anyways and may even fix a lot of the complaints people have about high sec war decs.

Member of #tweetfleet @stalence // Templis CALSF // YouTube Channel

Alexa Stryker
Council of Stellar Erections
#40 - 2015-03-04 14:58:17 UTC
Stalence wrote:
Bump.

Please make this happen. I don't think it would be game breaking in anyways and may even fix a lot of the complaints people have about high sec war decs.



Can you clarify why covert cyno in high sec would fix some of the high sec war dec complaints please.
I'm just interested of in the reasons and insights.

A Family that incest together, stays together