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Killboard needs more meaningful stats
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DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#41 - 2015-03-01 01:03:48 UTC
billboards are player made, so make your own.

kill mails are trophies, humans like to show off states, it in our nature. so shouldn't go anywhere

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2015-03-01 02:20:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiandoshia
Glathull wrote:
The only way to remove killboards is to remove kills.

Is that really the position some of you are intending to take?


...

Get rid of stats tracking.

That better?

-E- Don't get me wrong. I don't think removing KBs is going to do anything to the way fights happen or don't happen in Eve. They're just terribly misleading and reflect nothing about efficiency or 'skill', however you want to define that.

Maybe I should say improve KBs instead of getting rid of them because right now, someone with a 99% efficiency most likely has no idea what to do outside of a fleet. Idk how the points system factors into it. I just take KBs as just another tool for intel, which, I admit, is quite nice. It has nothing to do with tracking anyone's ability to... kill ships.
Exotic Matters
Fried Liver Attack
#43 - 2015-03-01 03:24:10 UTC
Just because something can never really be a perfect indicator of anything and will always be flawed, does not me that it shouldn't be improved.

Even if you don't think it should exist, it does, and its not going anywhere, so why not improve it.

I do think that some of those that dislike killboards in general are those who would rather that the intel was not available to be used against them. Not that they don't pay attention to it themselves, and at least on some value care how it how well they do on it. Or perhaps they don't want a reliable indicator of skill because they are afraid that it would reflect badly on them. If the stats are obviously meaningless, as they are, then it isn't a threat to them.
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2015-03-01 03:54:27 UTC
Yes, by all means, improve them. I just think right now, they're pretty terrible and they make people do really terrible and stupid things, like you know... fitting whore railguns to Scimitars.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#45 - 2015-03-01 08:05:03 UTC
Kiandoshia wrote:
Yes, by all means, improve them. I just think right now, they're pretty terrible and they make people do really terrible and stupid things, like you know... fitting ***** railguns to Scimitars.

Oh come on, that kind of stuff is funny. We even have the odd Worst fit fleets where the worst fits win. And no an amour drake is not even close to the worse fits you see on these roams.

I personally try to have something funny in the cargo hold. For example my Police comets are full of slaver hounds and are all called k9. Or my first scimi loss in really really bad lag, i had a Unit of Lag in the hold.

Lose mails can be fun too!

Then there is the "OMG i can't believe i just did that" loss mails. I did lose a Freighter full of fuel to our own pos! The freighter alt was in a NPC corp and i got the POS passwd wrong..... I am now know as the welpinator in corp.

No killboards are entertaining and make the game fun in many respects for me. I play for fun, so you know this may mean that i am bit odd in the Eve Universe.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2015-03-01 09:10:57 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
vccv wrote:
Kiandoshia wrote:
Get rid of killboards.


I 100% agree with this statement.


Pencil me in on this one. KBs ruin PVP more than carebears do. I've scattered whole camps solo because of their fear of lowering efficiency.

No KB = more PVP, in my opinion.

Mr Epeen Cool

Troll Blink

No killmails / killboards no EvE.

Suggestion: make all killmails public in-game like corp history.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#47 - 2015-03-01 09:19:13 UTC
Exotic Matters wrote:
I think the statistics on the killboards could be improved to give more meaningful stats.

As it stands a pilot who sits in a 100 man fleet gatecamping will have much better stats than a 2 or 3 man gang who take on battles that require more risk and skill.

I tried to think of ways that amount of damage done or number of final blows/most damage would be tracked but this would discredit the value of tackle and other non-dps warfare that often requires more skill. Other things would require numbers that are not already recorded by the game.

But at the very least it seem like it would be easy to generate a stat that took into account the number of pilots on the kill. So you would have an "adjusted" kill stat where if you were in a 100 man fleet you would get .01 kill and if you were in a 2 man fleet you would get .5 kill.

Or perhaps the isk ratio be based on this. If 100 ships kill a 100 million isk ship, the pilot gets credit for 1 million isk damage. As it stands a 90% isk efficiency is a stat entirely without meaning and can be achieved by the worst pilot in the game if he joins the right fleets. But this stat I suggest would be a much more reliable gauge of the success rate of the pilot.

Maybe other ideas that haven't occurred to me, just seems to me that the numbers are less meaningful than they could be.


Are you referring to the ingame kill windows or third party killboards? The figures on the in-game ones have been broken for a long time if not forever. The loss figures on the in-game figures are always under the average regional market cost for ship & fittings losses. When ships such as the Gnosis are lost the market cost of the ship isn't included at all.

I don't agree that the existence of killboards whether in-game or third party add reluctance for pilots to get involved in PvP. Pilots know how much the ships they fly cost to buy and fit out and will or won't be willing to risk ship loss based on that and other factors.

A lot of pilots like using killboards for many reasons and I would be in favour of having a proper one like Z killboard in-game. Although I would rather see dev worktime used to fix other stuff in--game first or add other new content first before adding an in-game killboard.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#48 - 2015-03-01 09:39:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Killboard needs less meaningless stats. I was told that I was a habitual blobber the other day because 'Average Attackers' = ~80. Me who almost exclusively flies solo with several hundred such kills.

Stupid Titan event.

Although it did turn my killboard green for all eternity. Another utterly meaningless stat in this context.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
flakeys
Doomheim
#49 - 2015-03-01 09:48:48 UTC
Glathull wrote:
flakeys wrote:
Glathull wrote:
The only way to remove killboards is to remove kills.

Is that really the position some of you are intending to take?



Yup , the question is do you want a kill to show off to your friends how awsome you are or do you just want a kill so that your opponent ''suffered a loss''.If it isn't for e-peening then what would a killmail contribute?I've allways done pvp to kick the opponent on the ground , and in a lot of cases he burried me in the ground.

Killmails only have a negative impact on pvp.



Edit : I just looked at your killboard.I find it quite odd/funny that you with a totally **** killboard stat - total off 95 M kills and 20.8% eff - is opposed to removing killmails while i have a ''more then decent'' killboardstat -total 1.32 T kills 97.5% eff - yet would like to see them removed.It puzzles me why you would be opposed to their removal unless that is not your main character and even then .But then you might be puzzled why i would like them to be removed .


You misread my words. I didn't say get rid of killmails. I said the only way to get rid of killboards is to get rid of kills.

Is that what you would like? No more killing? I think that kind of policy would have a much more chilling effect on pvp. (do I need to put this in sarcasm tags for you?)

I obviously do not care about my killboard. Read my posts, diphthong. I welp ships for fun. I have a good time fail-fitting ships and going out and losing them whenever I feel like it. I do not care at all about what my kb looks like.



Nope, if you get rid of killmails you get rid of killboards , as simple as that.If a kill does not generate a killmail then you can still do pvp.You just won't be able to show off to your friends about it , or jerk off on your l33t stats.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
flakeys
Doomheim
#50 - 2015-03-01 09:54:12 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Zappity wrote:
Killboard needs less meaningless stats. I was told that I was a habitual blobber the other day because 'Average Attackers' = ~80. Me who almost exclusively flies solo with several hundred such kills.

Stupid Titan event.

Although it did turn my killboard green for all eternity. Another utterly meaningless stat in this context.


As you i am used to flying solo in low-sec mostly in my eve time.That means being killed a lot and the kills i make are never high in isk value , well besides the rare kills of a 500M bomber or 450M faction frigate.But as i have also lived in blob-sec a long while my killboard says i killed 1.32T in ships , for wich you mostly can thank the biggest capfight in eve history.

Hence why i said before that killstats are totally meaningless in regards to how good one is at pvp.Press the solo tab and then you can see who actually has some skills , and even then you can't tell if the person was using an altbooster or not.If you are a part of one of the big coalitions in eve then it is allmost impossible to have a negative ratio.Hell , if you're part of any medium sized corp that does some gang pvp every now and then it's basically the same thing.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2015-03-01 10:09:50 UTC
Killboards give a pretty accurate picture of a pilot's or a corp's PVP activity.

You just have to look past the totals.


Also, why should risk-averse cowards be coaxed into fighting more? Let them hide while the adults enjoy the game, there's no place for them on the battlefield.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Moonlit Raid
Doomheim
#52 - 2015-03-01 14:12:32 UTC
Exotic Matters wrote:
I think the statistics on the killboards could be improved to give more meaningful stats.

As it stands a pilot who sits in a 100 man fleet gatecamping will have much better stats than a 2 or 3 man gang who take on battles that require more risk and skill.

I tried to think of ways that amount of damage done or number of final blows/most damage would be tracked but this would discredit the value of tackle and other non-dps warfare that often requires more skill. Other things would require numbers that are not already recorded by the game.

But at the very least it seem like it would be easy to generate a stat that took into account the number of pilots on the kill. So you would have an "adjusted" kill stat where if you were in a 100 man fleet you would get .01 kill and if you were in a 2 man fleet you would get .5 kill.

Or perhaps the isk ratio be based on this. If 100 ships kill a 100 million isk ship, the pilot gets credit for 1 million isk damage. As it stands a 90% isk efficiency is a stat entirely without meaning and can be achieved by the worst pilot in the game if he joins the right fleets. But this stat I suggest would be a much more reliable gauge of the success rate of the pilot.

Maybe other ideas that haven't occurred to me, just seems to me that the numbers are less meaningful than they could be.

I don't remember CCP issuing a game wide kill-board? What about the pilots who do not sign up to killboards and therefore their stats are entirely anybody's guess? And logi doesn't show whatsoever leaving a bit of a gap for misleading statistics. You're not concerned with that at all?

If brute force isn't working, you're just not using enough.

Please Note: Any advice given comes with the caveat that nothing will be suitable for every situation.
Chopper Rollins
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2015-03-01 14:33:41 UTC
WOW some people really do log on to derive some kind of validation, don't they?
The biggest idiots are the ones who either love or hate kb stats.
In the middle are the people who use em for story telling, as conversation fodder, as jokes in themselves but never live according to MUH STATS.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#54 - 2015-03-01 15:07:27 UTC
Kiandoshia wrote:
Get rid of killboards.

agreed, its serves no real purpose than for people to sling their epeen about. its annoying to say the least.
Only purpose it serves is when someone dies you can see what they had on their ship and that's 1 way of getting OP fits, atleast on battleclinic if someone puts a fit together you don't know if its good or not, Killboards you see how many people that pilot killed with that ship before his own death.

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
2Sonas1Cup
#55 - 2015-03-01 15:10:36 UTC
Remove killboards API from game.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2015-03-01 15:16:43 UTC
Pok Nibin wrote:
risk aversion - uh, until recently we called this "intelligence"

kids these days


Honestly, I think there's a difference between being risk averse and being smart about the fights you do take.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Varathius
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
#57 - 2015-03-01 17:22:30 UTC
people should be their own killboards, so even the worst eve player has a glorious battle story to tell since nobody can check if that was really possible. Eve would be a different game then and OGBs would become obsolete.
Seraph Essael
Air
The Initiative.
#58 - 2015-03-01 17:33:04 UTC
I like all these killboard elitists that have, and make a point of mentioning that, they have thousands of kills. When in reality they are always on the kill with 100+ other people and more often than not, they have done 0 damage to the person they 'Killied'. It's also usually their fleet vs a solo player or a smaller fleet. (People that fly in groups of 100+ and fight other groups of 100+ makes sense.)

I've flown with people in the past that literally only care about the killmail, then they will brag about how awesome they are because their KB stats are epic and they're in the top 100 corps etc etc. They would ransom someone and kill them anyway because it generates a kill. Then they would post the kill manually to zKillboard almost immediately because it takes to long for the API to populate.

I like killboards as a record of what fights you've been in and who you've flown with. But for anything more than that, they're rotting this game.

Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person."
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2015-03-01 17:46:58 UTC
IMO you can tell a good pilot from their killboard but is has 0 to do with their ISK effeciency or # of ships killed. You have to do some data mining ;) (Look at solokills, who did they kill and what was the fit? Look at engagements. Are they fighting other notorious PVPers in similar sized battles and winning/holding their own?)

But at the end of the day, the only way to really know if someone is good is to fly with/against them.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#60 - 2015-03-01 18:59:51 UTC
No one is forcing you to put in your API either. Since they're widely used for the free intel they hand out, putting an API up on a public killboard like zkill is questionable in it's use, in my opinion. If you need to show a pvp-reference (for example, your war history as a merc group), then that's even avaiable ingame.