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Another Bittervet's returning thoughts

First post
Author
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-12-22 11:39:17 UTC
First of all I'd like to say well done CCP, you've finally taken an interest in your player-base again, and on that basis I have returned. There's still a long way to go, but at least your attitude doesn't stink any more. So in no particular order, here's my thoughts:

1. You've made a great start with these changes, but you still have a LONG way to go. The list of player demands and broken promises is long and still needs addressing. Like the slide-able range bar for the D-Scanner.

2. P.I. is still lame. That was the expansion that finally made me decide to quit. When I think of all the possibilities for P.I., you came out with one of the dullest concepts imaginable. In my humble opinion it would have been much better to create at least in part, a turn-based Strategy game. P.I in it's current iteration is such a wasted opportunity.

3. Dust may as well be a separate game. You've already stated that should player numbers dwindle in DUST, it won't effect the game-play in Eve. In other words it's going to interact SO weakly with Eve as to be pointless. I still can't wrap my head around the fact that you won't be launching it on the PC., sheer stupidity.Shocked

4. Micro-transactions and Aurum. Please just remove this, I don't even care about the promises of it not being pay to win, I still massively resent the fact that I have to pay extra for anything. Also it doesn't fit in with any kind of storyline, it's just there as an unexplained money making machine. I'd rather more on my monthly fee to see these customizations. MT symbolises everything that was previously wrong with CCP, do us all a favor and get rid of it.

5. The U.I. is getting a little better, but overall it is still the mother of all CLICKFESTS. It is UNINTUATIVE and not customizable in any useful way. Seriously CCP, hire an expert in U.I.s and start from scratch. I'd be more than happy if you dedicated an entire expansion to making a kick-ass U.I.

6. W.I.S. I'm glad this has been dumped for now, FIS just needs so much attention. Like many others, it's not that I don't want WiS, it's just you never sold us the dream and told us why it would be so great. I don't mind waiting another five years, if it means WiS will be something worth waiting for.

7. Give Low-Sec some serious love. Give the bears much more reason to venture into low-sec, and find a balance which will allow them to do so with some small but better degree of safety. Give Pirates some major love, Pirate create some dedicated content for those of us who have very low standings. The population balance between high and low sec is extreme, and I can't believe this is part of the vision. We want more Pew!

That's my thoughts for now, PLEASE CCP don't make Crucible a one off token effort. You've taken some very positive steps to regaining our trust. Next time you screw up as badly as you had previously, could very well be the last time players will allow you to.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]

Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-12-22 11:41:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Whippy
Oh PS:

8. Allow members with expired account to post on your forums. I've been screaming at these forums for a long time, and wanted to voice my opinion on what is needed to make EvE great again. How do you expect to draw players back to the game if you won't let them tell you what it will take?

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]

Jack Jombardo
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2011-12-22 11:44:41 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
Oh PS:

8. Allow members with expired account to post on your forums. I've been screaming at these forums for a long time, and wanted to voice my opinion on what is needed to make EvE great again. How do you expect to draw players back to the game if you won't let them tell you what it will take?

No.

If people rage quite there is no reason to let them further rage on the forums.
There is enough hate allready.
CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
#4 - 2011-12-22 11:47:16 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
Oh PS:

8. Allow members with expired account to post on your forums. I've been screaming at these forums for a long time, and wanted to voice my opinion on what is needed to make EvE great again. How do you expect to draw players back to the game if you won't let them tell you what it will take?


Welcome back and of all your points this is the only one I can answer for you.

Allowing expired accounts to post on the forums is fraught with issues, the main one being that the forums would be flooded with isk selling ads, keyloggers and malware. We ave literally millions of expired accounts and the risk of a sustained attack on the forums, like we saw last year with the 'Audrey Bitoni' attacks, is simply too great.

Your idea, in theory, is pretty sound but the dangers are just too real. Perhaps we can find some way to work around this in the future.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#5 - 2011-12-22 12:00:15 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
Oh PS:

8. Allow members with expired account to post on your forums. I've been screaming at these forums for a long time, and wanted to voice my opinion on what is needed to make EvE great again. How do you expect to draw players back to the game if you won't let them tell you what it will take?


Not. I consider these forums a sort of paid service as running a forum on secure layer requires more than balls of steel and a undestructible faith on your php skills, it costs a lot of bandwith aka monies.
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2011-12-22 12:00:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss Whippy
CCP Navigator wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:
Oh PS:

8. Allow members with expired account to post on your forums. I've been screaming at these forums for a long time, and wanted to voice my opinion on what is needed to make EvE great again. How do you expect to draw players back to the game if you won't let them tell you what it will take?


Welcome back and of all your points this is the only one I can answer for you.

Allowing expired accounts to post on the forums is fraught with issues, the main one being that the forums would be flooded with isk selling ads, keyloggers and malware. We ave literally millions of expired accounts and the risk of a sustained attack on the forums, like we saw last year with the 'Audrey Bitoni' attacks, is simply too great.

Your idea, in theory, is pretty sound but the dangers are just too real. Perhaps we can find some way to work around this in the future.



Hi Nav,

Thank you for your response. But I must say I have to respectfully disagree, and you could CERTAINLY find ways of effectively combatting spam. I own a string of successful online forums and trust me when I tell you it is quite easily possible to prevent spamming with a few measures, such as:

1. Capcha system for reactivating expired accounts.
2. You could limit expired accounts to their own forum section, which regular players can post in too.
3. Create a spam monitoring system that will spot and automatically remove mass spam posts.
4. Blacklist spamming accounts.
5. Blacklist Spamming IP addresses.
6. Use capcha for first five posts.
7. Ban links for first five posts.
8. Blacklist URLs that are spammy.

There's many other small solutions, while on their own they are only mildly effective, but when combined can be very effective.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]

CCP Navigator
C C P
C C P Alliance
#7 - 2011-12-22 12:04:39 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
CCP Navigator wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:
Oh PS:

8. Allow members with expired account to post on your forums. I've been screaming at these forums for a long time, and wanted to voice my opinion on what is needed to make EvE great again. How do you expect to draw players back to the game if you won't let them tell you what it will take?


Welcome back and of all your points this is the only one I can answer for you.

Allowing expired accounts to post on the forums is fraught with issues, the main one being that the forums would be flooded with isk selling ads, keyloggers and malware. We ave literally millions of expired accounts and the risk of a sustained attack on the forums, like we saw last year with the 'Audrey Bitoni' attacks, is simply too great.

Your idea, in theory, is pretty sound but the dangers are just too real. Perhaps we can find some way to work around this in the future.



Hi Nav,

Thank you for your response. But I must say I have to respectfully disagree, and you could CERTAINLY find ways of effectively combatting spam. I own a string of successful online forums and trust me when I tell you it is quite easily possible to prevent spamming with a few measures, such as:

1. Capcha system for reactivating expired accounts.
2. You could limit expired accounts to their own forum section, which regular players can post in too.
3. Create a spam monitoring system that will spot and automatically remove mass spam posts.
4. Blacklist spamming accounts.
5. Blacklist Spamming IP addresses.
6. Use capcha for first five posts.
7. Ban links for first five posts.

There's many other small solutions, while on their own they are only mildly effective, but when combined can be very effective.


I understand that you respectfully disagree. Our first duty is to the safety of our players accounts and that will always remain our top priority. We must ensure that our forums are as solid as they can possibly be to assist players from being exposed to potentially dangerous links.

As I stated previously, the access levels may change in the future but for now all access to posting in the forums will remain on paying accounts Smile
Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-12-22 12:04:47 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:
Oh PS:

8. Allow members with expired account to post on your forums. I've been screaming at these forums for a long time, and wanted to voice my opinion on what is needed to make EvE great again. How do you expect to draw players back to the game if you won't let them tell you what it will take?


Not. I consider these forums a sort of paid service as running a forum on secure layer requires more than balls of steel and a undestructible faith on your php skills, it costs a lot of bandwith aka monies.


Surely though, allowing ex-players to have their say is the key to bringing them back? So, more monies. Trust me, on the scale of things, the bandwidth needed is relatively tiny.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#9 - 2011-12-22 12:27:09 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:
Oh PS:

8. Allow members with expired account to post on your forums. I've been screaming at these forums for a long time, and wanted to voice my opinion on what is needed to make EvE great again. How do you expect to draw players back to the game if you won't let them tell you what it will take?


Not. I consider these forums a sort of paid service as running a forum on secure layer requires more than balls of steel and a undestructible faith on your php skills, it costs a lot of bandwith aka monies.


Surely though, allowing ex-players to have their say is the key to bringing them back? So, more monies. Trust me, on the scale of things, the bandwidth needed is relatively tiny.


Because there in only one internet and on that internet there is only one forum to talk about EVE. Roll

I can't figure what freaking dificulties would have players to get the atention of CCP comunity management if they had to deal with an endless horde of undead alts...
TuonelanOrja
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-12-22 12:42:07 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Miss Whippy wrote:
Oh PS:

8. Allow members with expired account to post on your forums. I've been screaming at these forums for a long time, and wanted to voice my opinion on what is needed to make EvE great again. How do you expect to draw players back to the game if you won't let them tell you what it will take?


Not. I consider these forums a sort of paid service as running a forum on secure layer requires more than balls of steel and a undestructible faith on your php skills, it costs a lot of bandwith aka monies.


Surely though, allowing ex-players to have their say is the key to bringing them back? So, more monies. Trust me, on the scale of things, the bandwidth needed is relatively tiny.


Just GTFO---->DOOR

Not a veteran, just bitter..

Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2011-12-22 12:50:34 UTC
Quote:
Because there in only one internet and on that internet there is only one forum to talk about EVE. Roll


Are you really that stupid? This forum is the only one that matters, because it's the only one CCP reads, interacts with and gives feedback on. Perhaps you didn't notice, but the Eve community made it very clear to CCP what the advantaged are to not ignoring your customers, but in fact listening to and responding to them

Quote:
I can't figure what freaking dificulties would have players to get the atention of CCP comunity management if they had to deal with an endless horde of undead alts...


Yeah, it seems obvious that there's probably quite a lot you can't figure out.

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]

Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#12 - 2011-12-22 12:52:41 UTC
People who quit tend to be very negative. If you want to spit poison into a community you should at least have to pay for it. Bittervets should have a pile of ISK for PLEX anyway. Since you have no other use for it, you might as well spend it for your grinch forum account.

--> Against undead bittervets on forums

.

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-12-22 12:59:50 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
Oh PS:

8. Allow members with expired account to post on your forums. I've been screaming at these forums for a long time, and wanted to voice my opinion on what is needed to make EvE great again. How do you expect to draw players back to the game if you won't let them tell you what it will take?


Welcome back.

Oh and besides your questionable opinions, number 8 is _really_ bad. lol
Who want's to be part of the club, has to pay for the membership.

Else we'd have even more whining kids around here..
Something Random
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2011-12-22 13:00:48 UTC
Miss Whippy wrote:
First of all I'd like to say well done CCP, you've finally taken an interest in your player-base again, and on that basis I have returned. There's still a long way to go, but at least your attitude doesn't stink any more. So in no particular order, here's my thoughts:


Welcome Back. Smile

Id like to answer a few points.

1. In any game there is always a wish list as long as your arm from the player base, some good some bad. Now think HARD about how much time/manpower/testing it all takes to implement one. Also imagine if there was no content for 2 years as they slogged the list through.... my gawd the moaning rage qq's

2. Cant argue, its tedium times 10. However a subgame is not the way to take it IMHO.

3. DUST is a seperate game. The logistics of managing and balancing the 2 is probably a nightmare with almost no lasting effect on either game from the other, imagine if it had proper impact... not impossible, but slowly does it yeh. Besides i dont think anyone truly knows yet what the final result is of DUST effecting Eve. Just let them get on with expanding the portfolio like all other companies are allowed.

4. Doesnt bother me, hardly notice it. Cant you ignore it too ?

5. Dont have much of an issue with the current one BUT a new one thats better - yes please.Smile Your slider point is most valid.

6. Just ignore it, its in development. Just think its a bonus slowly happening personally. Very glad we got the station environment back with an option to drop to CQ if we wish. Perfect choice CCP.

7. Always gonna be an issue.... all points and viewpoints seem valid. Would love to see dedicated bad boy agents though encouraging PVP through subversive bounty perhaps - i.e. go kill me haulers in x system for a x amount bonus or something.

8. No. Use email.

Just my rebuttal.

"caught on fire a little bit, just a little."

"Delinquents, check, weirdos, check, hippies, check, pillheads, check, freaks, check, potheads, check .....gangs all here!"

I love Science, it gives me a Hadron.

Miss Whippy
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2011-12-23 17:51:14 UTC
Something Random wrote:


Welcome Back. Smile

Id like to answer a few points.

1. In any game there is always a wish list as long as your arm from the player base, some good some bad. Now think HARD about how much time/manpower/testing it all takes to implement one. Also imagine if there was no content for 2 years as they slogged the list through.... my gawd the moaning rage qq's

2. Cant argue, its tedium times 10. However a subgame is not the way to take it IMHO.


1. Most true. All I was really saying was that I hope CCP keeps up renewed vigor. Eve felt pretty much abandoned on the development front, nothing great had come along for a long time until Crucible. I'm just voicing my encouragement that they don't make Crucible a one off token effort. I appreciate it can't all be done in a day, but previously it wasn't getting done at all.

2. I think we will just have to disagree on that one. I'm not asking for a full on strategy game like civilization. But something where we can fight other players and have some kind of fight for dominance is necessary.

Quote:

3. DUST is a seperate game. The logistics of managing and balancing the 2 is probably a nightmare with almost no lasting effect on either game from the other, imagine if it had proper impact... not impossible, but slowly does it yeh. Besides i dont think anyone truly knows yet what the final result is of DUST effecting Eve. Just let them get on with expanding the portfolio like all other companies are allowed.

4. Doesnt bother me, hardly notice it. Cant you ignore it too ?


3. Of course they are allowed. But let's not pretend that it's going to be amazing for Eve players, because it's unlikely it will be. Especially since we'd need to by a Playstation to get involved.

4.I could do, but if we applied that attitude all the time, Eve would seriously suffer for it.

Quote:

5. Dont have much of an issue with the current one BUT a new one thats better - yes please.Smile Your slider point is most valid.

6. Just ignore it, its in development. Just think its a bonus slowly happening personally. Very glad we got the station environment back with an option to drop to CQ if we wish. Perfect choice CCP.


5. The current one isn't exactly terrible, but if they developed a new, stylish, efficient, well thought-out UI, I guarentee in comparison it WOULD look terrible. Yes the slider sounded great when they mentioned it, it would actually be game changing to a degree as you could quickly and accurately assess how far away someone was. You can do that now, but it would be a real ball ache.

6. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great thing. It just needs purpose and needs to only be released when it's properly ready to be, and not at the expense of FiS.

Quote:

7. Always gonna be an issue.... all points and viewpoints seem valid. Would love to see dedicated bad boy agents though encouraging PVP through subversive bounty perhaps - i.e. go kill me haulers in x system for a x amount bonus or something.


8. No. Use email.


7. Glad you agree, I just hope CCP does. I've always felt that low-sec is largely ignored. I think a better low-sec has the potential to benefit High-sec and 0.0 in equal measure.


8. Emails don't have the benefits of forums. On a forum good ideas gain momentum quickly. Many ex-players left because they were fed-up of the way Eve was going. Spam is a weak excuse in my opinion.

Quote:

Just my rebuttal.


Thanks for your welcome back and your well considered response. :)

[URL="https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=82348"]UI Iteration isn't enough, we need to start from scratch[/URL]

Rixiu
PonyTek
#16 - 2011-12-23 18:16:30 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:


I understand that you respectfully disagree. Our first duty is to the safety of our players accounts and that will always remain our top priority. We must ensure that our forums are as solid as they can possibly be to assist players from being exposed to potentially dangerous links.


I smiled, 8/10. Good troll, would read again.

*points Navigator back at that three times when it was possible to put html code in the forums signatures and thereby change the layout of the page and adding "potentially dangerous links" *