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[Scylla] Strategic Cruiser Defensive Subsystems

First post
Author
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-02-26 17:13:51 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fozzie
Hello everyone. We are updating Singularity as we speak with the first testing versions of our Scylla release coming immediately after Fanfest.

If you've been watching CCP Rise's tweets, you already know that we have some important balance changes in the works and that more info will be coming this week.

I'm making threads right now for two of the sets of changes coming in Scylla, and for details of the rest you should watch the o7 show tonight at 20:00 EVE Time and keep your eyes peeled for a Dev Blog that will drop in the coming days. I'm making threads for this subset of the planned changes today because these are the ones that are already running in today's SISI update.

As many of you know, Strategic Cruisers are extremely powerful ships that see common use across EVE. We have said for a long time that we want to do a comprehensive balance pass on them, buffing some aspects of these ships and nerfing some other aspects. That larger set of changes is still in the works, but in the meantime we are making a targeted set of changes to the Defensive Subsystems on the four T3 Cruisers.

The biggest changes here are to the hitpoint bonuses subsystems, Supplemental Screening and Augmented Plating. These subsystems are by far the most powerful defensive subsystems for PVP use, and their strength is a significant part of why T3 cruisers often eclipse other competing ships (such as HACs and Command Ships) and why the Loki struggles in comparison to the other three.
We're reducing the strength of the bonuses on these specific subsystems, to +7.5% Armor HP per level for Augmented Plating and a combo of +5% Shield HP and +3% Shield Recharge Rate for the Supplemental Screening.
The other changes in this pass are all more minor tweaks to HP and signature values to help balance out the viability of the different subsystems relative to each other.


    Legion Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
  • Signature Radius: 140 (-14)
  • Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating
  • +7.5% Armor HP per level (previously +10%)
  • Signature Radius: 154 (+7)
  • Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector
  • Armor HP: 3750 (+150)
  • Legion Defensive - Warfare Processor
  • Signature Radius: 147 (+7)
  • Loki Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
  • Signature Radius: 125 (-5)
  • Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
  • Signature Radius: 130 (-13)
  • Loki Defensive - Warfare Processor
  • Signature Radius: 143 (+13)
  • Proteus Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
  • Signature Radius: 160 (-16)
  • Proteus Defensive - Augmented Plating
  • +7.5% Armor HP per level (previously +10%)
  • Signature Radius: 176 (+8)
  • Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector
  • Armor HP: 3650 (+150)
  • Proteus Defensive - Warfare Processor
  • Signature Radius: 168 (+8)
  • Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
  • Signature Radius: 150 (-15)
  • Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening
  • +5% Shield HP and +3% Shield Recharge Speed per level (previously +10% Shield HP)
  • Shield Capacity: 3550 (-200)
  • Signature Radius: 165 (+7)
  • Tengu Defensive - Warfare Processor
  • Signature Radius: 157 (+7)


Like I said, these are not the final changes we want to make to T3 Cruisers, they are one specific set of changes we are making to help improve the balance surrounding this class until we can finish the comprehensive pass down the road.
These are also not the only balance changes coming in Scylla. All the details on those changes will be released in an upcoming dev blog.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Rowells
Insurrection
Black Legion...
#2 - 2015-02-26 17:17:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
First

Why do the armor subs get less nerf than the tengus shield sub? Imo the armor subs are extremely powerful considering you can out tank every single subcap using them.

Especially considering the tengu is losing base hp in addition to losing 25% of its bonus
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#3 - 2015-02-26 17:24:46 UTC
Rowells wrote:
First

Why do the armor subs get less nerf than the tengus shield sub? Imo the armor subs are extremely powerful considering you can out tank every single subcap using them.



Because they don't have nifty value like shield regen in armor that they could dump the remaining bonus into without screwing up other stuff besides tanking

Wormholer for life.

Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2015-02-26 17:24:58 UTC
Interesting tweaks to the Warfare Processors -- this makes them a little easier to probe out. It'll be interesting to see booster fits shift as they try to get back into Hard To Probe status.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Agrakari Saraki
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-02-26 17:26:18 UTC
Can you explain the signature radius nerfs? Is this to combat the phenomenon of "unprobeable" off-grid boosters (space wizards).
dexter xio
Zero Fun Allowed
#6 - 2015-02-26 17:26:20 UTC
Hmm, interesting.

Dead Game.

Wrik Hoover
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2015-02-26 17:26:54 UTC
ok
Dave Stark
#8 - 2015-02-26 17:27:06 UTC
i honestly can't help feel that the irrelevant 3% regen bonus and the extra 2.5% shaved off the tengu defensive sub is bullshit.

just nerf them all to 7.5%.
Rowells
Insurrection
Black Legion...
#9 - 2015-02-26 17:30:11 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
Rowells wrote:
First

Why do the armor subs get less nerf than the tengus shield sub? Imo the armor subs are extremely powerful considering you can out tank every single subcap using them.



Because they don't have nifty value like shield regen in armor that they could dump the remaining bonus into without screwing up other stuff besides tanking

I honestly don't see passive regen being anywhere near as powerful as an extra 100k+ ehp though.
Grath Telkin
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2015-02-26 17:32:27 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Rowells wrote:
First

Why do the armor subs get less nerf than the tengus shield sub? Imo the armor subs are extremely powerful considering you can out tank every single subcap using them.



Because they don't have nifty value like shield regen in armor that they could dump the remaining bonus into without screwing up other stuff besides tanking

I honestly don't see passive regen being anywhere near as powerful as an extra 100k+ ehp though.


Nice number you pulled out of your butt there, anything else hiding up there with it?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Haiyooo
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#11 - 2015-02-26 17:33:58 UTC
Id still like someone from CCP to explain the logic to nerfing ships that are 3 times the cost of the others, it is their point to be better than HAC because of cost... Just nerf everything to T1 values so the hordes can win already.
Querns
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2015-02-26 17:35:50 UTC
Haiyooo wrote:
Id still like someone from CCP to explain the logic to nerfing ships that are 3 times the cost of the others, it is their point to be better than HAC because of cost... Just nerf everything to T1 values so the hordes can win already.

Unfortunately, cost is not intended to be commensurate with power (despite all the evidence to the contrary.)

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#13 - 2015-02-26 17:36:21 UTC
Nerfing HP bonuses why not.

Nerfing Shield more than Armor, knowing that they will also get higher sig radius and no possibilities for a shield HP implant set... That's not cool. Sad

Also, general nerfing of T3s when they still retain their sp losses is super super not cool. Evil

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Corey Lean
No Vacancies
No Vacancies.
#14 - 2015-02-26 17:39:30 UTC
Haiyooo wrote:
Id still like someone from CCP to explain the logic to nerfing ships that are 3 times the cost of the others, it is their point to be better than HAC because of cost... Just nerf everything to T1 values so the hordes can win already.


The hordes are flying these ships right now
Araneatrox
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-02-26 17:39:39 UTC
Reducing the raw HP while increasing the sig by 4-5%.

I like these changes, will encourage a change in the already stale PVP metagame of eve.
Rowells
Insurrection
Black Legion...
#16 - 2015-02-26 17:40:33 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Rowells wrote:
First

Why do the armor subs get less nerf than the tengus shield sub? Imo the armor subs are extremely powerful considering you can out tank every single subcap using them.



Because they don't have nifty value like shield regen in armor that they could dump the remaining bonus into without screwing up other stuff besides tanking

I honestly don't see passive regen being anywhere near as powerful as an extra 100k+ ehp though.


Nice number you pulled out of your butt there, anything else hiding up there with it?

Iirc proteus can pull 320k and legion can do 270k with only T2 mods. I believe the highest non-belonged set up I've seen on tengu reached 170 maybe.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#17 - 2015-02-26 17:41:07 UTC
I like these changes.

Note that as a wormhole dweller I fly a lot in t3 fleets, and I still agree with this rather than crying in a corner or making a hissy fit. The ridiculous HP has to go. Not sure if these measures are sufficient, but they do look good.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#18 - 2015-02-26 17:43:50 UTC
the proper full nerf had better be soon and it had better be actually proper, unlike this.
Arkon Olacar
Avalanche.
skill urself
#19 - 2015-02-26 17:44:18 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
Rowells wrote:
First

Why do the armor subs get less nerf than the tengus shield sub? Imo the armor subs are extremely powerful considering you can out tank every single subcap using them.



Because they don't have nifty value like shield regen in armor that they could dump the remaining bonus into without screwing up other stuff besides tanking

I honestly don't see passive regen being anywhere near as powerful as an extra 100k+ ehp though.


Nice number you pulled out of your butt there, anything else hiding up there with it?

Came here to say this
TheMercenaryKing
Ultimatum.
#20 - 2015-02-26 17:44:21 UTC
now if only the prop mod bonus affected only 10mn classes.
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