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Why EvE will be a game of noobs in 10 years

Author
Aven Yassavi
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2015-02-25 12:02:44 UTC
Why is EvE still such a small game compared to WoW?

Because Eve loses a lot players!
That is a simple answer on that question but here comes why:

There are 3 reasons why I think people leaving EvE
1. Eve looks very complex in the beginning and hard to understand. They don't really know how to find help or don't want to read every part of the tutorial. So how about a Video tutorial?

2. High sec is way unsafer then low/null/wh space
Just to give you guys an example I know a lot people who live in null sec space or low sec who lost WAY more isk wise in high sec then in the space they live. How is that even possible? A space which is made for beginners which is the most dangerous space? There should only be 2 reasons for pvp in high sec and that is wars or duals.

3. This point is connected to 2.
Noobs joining eve with there friends. They found a corp to play together and then they get war dec'd the next day.
Wars are used to make easy noob kills and such. Wars in my opinion should be way diffrent because when youhate someone you go to low/null/wh space find him and kill him. If you really HATE him you war dec him so you can kill him even in high sec but that should cost you a big price because if you pay that high price to kill him you really hate him and want his death.
So the money to war dec someone should be calculated by this:
1.000.000.000+(((Members of the war decing corp)x50.000.000))/(Members of the corp beeing war dec'd-10) = 1 Month of war decing

That helps that large corps does not war dec small corps so often. In this way corps under 10 peoplecan not be war dec'd

Example: War decing corp has 100 Members. Corp beeing war dec'd got 30

1.000.000.000+((100*50.000.000)/(20)= 1.250.000.000 isk I still think this is a bit small for war decing someone but I hope it will help to keep the game alive because more and more experianced player leave the game just because of number 2 and 3. You guys doing a lot to find new player but you should care more about to hold them in the game.

Fly safe! I would love to see feed back and what other people think about this.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-02-25 12:05:58 UTC
Be curious to know why you think people are entitled to make unlimited, risk-free isk in highsec?

Travelling at the speed of love.

Aven Yassavi
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2015-02-25 12:11:00 UTC
Isk in high sec should be easy yes but it should be way less so if you want to make money you have to go to low/null/wh space.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2015-02-25 12:11:56 UTC
High sec is just supposed to be more controlled CCP has left it up to use to make space safe/dangerous
Ix Method
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-02-25 12:19:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ix Method
Aven Yassavi wrote:
Isk in high sec should be easy yes but it should be way less so if you want to make money you have to go to low/null/wh space.

Under your proposals 99% of people wouldn't be worth wardeccing and ganking is apparently just gone. Isk earning would be effectively risk-free, more efficient because pimpmods and devalue isk-making activities in other parts of space.

This would be a massive change to the culture of the game. Needs justifying.

Travelling at the speed of love.

Aven Yassavi
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2015-02-25 12:32:33 UTC
Ix Method wrote:
Aven Yassavi wrote:
Isk in high sec should be easy yes but it should be way less so if you want to make money you have to go to low/null/wh space.

Under your proposals 99% of people wouldn't be worth wardeccing and ganking is apparently just gone. Isk earning would be effectively risk-free, more efficient because pimpmods and devalue isk-making activities in other parts of space.

This would be a massive change to the culture of the game. Needs justifying.


Yes you got it right. Massive change to a better game. It just thoughts I had and It does not need to be changed in one big update maybe step by step. I mean war decing should be more used to cut the supply from high sec. Like its always happening in real wars. You cut the supply and the corp slowly bleeds out or need to fight them. I just want to make wars way more fair for noobs and I want high sec back into his role as a save place for beginners.
Bob Maths
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-02-25 12:36:40 UTC
Ix Method wrote:
Be curious to know why you think people are entitled to make unlimited, risk-free isk in highsec?


Why do you think you're entitled to camp the glorious ISK making in High Sec which would obviously ruin the game? I take it you've never played any game where a global free-for-all has resulted in that game failing.

Aven Yassavi wrote:
Why is EvE still such a small game compared to WoW?

Because Eve loses a lot players!
That is a simple answer on that question but here comes why:

There are 3 reasons why I think people leaving EvE
1. Eve looks very complex in the beginning and hard to understand. They don't really know how to find help or don't want to read every part of the tutorial. So how about a Video tutorial?

2. High sec is way unsafer then low/null/wh space
Just to give you guys an example I know a lot people who live in null sec space or low sec who lost WAY more isk wise in high sec then in the space they live. How is that even possible? A space which is made for beginners which is the most dangerous space? There should only be 2 reasons for pvp in high sec and that is wars or duals.

3. This point is connected to 2.
Noobs joining eve with there friends. They found a corp to play together and then they get war dec'd the next day.
Wars are used to make easy noob kills and such. Wars in my opinion should be way diffrent because when youhate someone you go to low/null/wh space find him and kill him. If you really HATE him you war dec him so you can kill him even in high sec but that should cost you a big price because if you pay that high price to kill him you really hate him and want his death.
So the money to war dec someone should be calculated by this:
1.000.000.000+(((Members of the war decing corp)x50.000.000))/(Members of the corp beeing war dec'd-10) = 1 Month of war decing

That helps that large corps does not war dec small corps so often. In this way corps under 10 peoplecan not be war dec'd

Example: War decing corp has 100 Members. Corp beeing war dec'd got 30

1.000.000.000+((100*50.000.000)/(20)= 1.250.000.000 isk I still think this is a bit small for war decing someone but I hope it will help to keep the game alive because more and more experianced player leave the game just because of number 2 and 3. You guys doing a lot to find new player but you should care more about to hold them in the game.

Fly safe! I would love to see feed back and what other people think about this.


Why the -10? Unless you're taking the absolute value you'll end up with negative values for persons of small corporations, in which case the function retains the purpose. Also don't forget relying on 'corporation' values can be easily manipulated by the players themselves to incur massive costs for the declaring corp. There's also possibly economic reasons why this is a bad idea too. Otherwise the function retains its use but overall costs less on this function rather than at the capped 500m a week.

1x10^9+|100x50x`0^6/(3-10)|=1.7b whereas your original function costs the declaring corporation 285m, substantially less (and increasingly so for increasing numbers) resulting in more war declarations?
Aven Yassavi
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2015-02-25 12:40:38 UTC
Bob Maths wrote:
Ix Method wrote:
Be curious to know why you think people are entitled to make unlimited, risk-free isk in highsec?


Why do you think you're entitled to camp the glorious ISK making in High Sec which would obviously ruin the game? I take it you've never played any game where a global free-for-all has resulted in that game failing.

Aven Yassavi wrote:
Why is EvE still such a small game compared to WoW?

Because Eve loses a lot players!
That is a simple answer on that question but here comes why:

There are 3 reasons why I think people leaving EvE
1. Eve looks very complex in the beginning and hard to understand. They don't really know how to find help or don't want to read every part of the tutorial. So how about a Video tutorial?

2. High sec is way unsafer then low/null/wh space
Just to give you guys an example I know a lot people who live in null sec space or low sec who lost WAY more isk wise in high sec then in the space they live. How is that even possible? A space which is made for beginners which is the most dangerous space? There should only be 2 reasons for pvp in high sec and that is wars or duals.

3. This point is connected to 2.
Noobs joining eve with there friends. They found a corp to play together and then they get war dec'd the next day.
Wars are used to make easy noob kills and such. Wars in my opinion should be way diffrent because when youhate someone you go to low/null/wh space find him and kill him. If you really HATE him you war dec him so you can kill him even in high sec but that should cost you a big price because if you pay that high price to kill him you really hate him and want his death.
So the money to war dec someone should be calculated by this:
1.000.000.000+(((Members of the war decing corp)x50.000.000))/(Members of the corp beeing war dec'd-10) = 1 Month of war decing

That helps that large corps does not war dec small corps so often. In this way corps under 10 peoplecan not be war dec'd

Example: War decing corp has 100 Members. Corp beeing war dec'd got 30

1.000.000.000+((100*50.000.000)/(20)= 1.250.000.000 isk I still think this is a bit small for war decing someone but I hope it will help to keep the game alive because more and more experianced player leave the game just because of number 2 and 3. You guys doing a lot to find new player but you should care more about to hold them in the game.

Fly safe! I would love to see feed back and what other people think about this.


Why the -10? Unless you're taking the absolute value you'll end up with negative values for persons of small corporations, in which case the function retains the purpose. Also don't forget relying on 'corporation' values can be easily manipulated by the players themselves to incur massive costs for the declaring corp. There's also possibly economic reasons why this is a bad idea too. Otherwise the function retains its use but overall costs less on this function rather than at the capped 500m a week.

1x10^9+|100x50x`0^6/(3-10)|=1.7b whereas your original function costs the declaring corporation 285m, substantially less (and increasingly so for increasing numbers) resulting in more war declarations?



Alright the -10 was only used to protect smallers corps that means when the corp is smaller the 10 people its not able to be war dec'd in any case ever this formula is not good I just want to make to have wars in the right way. There are corp war decing 160 corps just to make kills. In my point of view thats not what a war dec should be used for it should be used for fighting someone you really don't like.
h4kun4
Senkawa Tactical Division
Crimson Citadel
#9 - 2015-02-25 12:43:07 UTC
I see it that way:

Eve is already overcrowded. surely there are parts of space which are totally empty, but thats because the sapce is not worth settling in at the moment. (Thats CCPs Job)
Making the game less risky would convince less players to leave which would even more lead into overcrowdment (Because useless space keeps being useless, no matter how many people play). A not small part of the players which would stay then, might also go to nullsec, means growing blobs, means less fun.

If they stop eve because someone ganked them, they will also stop later because theyve been treated unfairly and if you stop eve because someone stole your sweetroll, its better for you and for everyone else playing eve.

Im very glad eve is not WoW, I most likely couldnt stand the drama 5000 14 year olds would cause in eves community and i bet you couldnt too.
If you are annoyed by wardecs, go to an NPC corp or to nullsec/lowsec/wormholes. The opportunities are big.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#10 - 2015-02-25 12:43:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Ix Method wrote:
Be curious to know why you think people are entitled to make unlimited, risk-free isk in highsec?

Aven Yassavi wrote:
Isk in high sec should be easy yes but it should be way less so if you want to make money you have to go to low/null/wh space.

Why should I (not me, but my alt; I make more than enough ISK in Null sec as it stands with ratting and missions.)? Why should I be forced to go to Null sec to make meaningful amounts of money just because this game is infested by people who are incapable of finding their own hands when they look at them? Why should these people dictate how I play the sandbox when they just want to make easy money and when they just want to not put effort into the game? Why should I be forced to go anywhere if I am satisfied and have more than enough things to do in the area I play in -- things even that I can impossibly do in Low sec or Null sec. Why should incapability, laziness, risk-aversion, sense of entitlement, bigotry and ISK-Min/Max-ing be the standard to measure what people should do and what not? Why should Null sec decide what High sec is supposed to be like (Granted, High sec has already imposed their standards on Null sec as Null sec has become a whole lot safer than it actually is supposed to be)?

In contrast, it is sickening to see that people do not want to put effort into the game anymore.
It is sickening that people think that their Sovereign space is nothing but a temporary holiday residence that you should not use and instead go elsewhere to live. Admittedly, this seems to change a little bit lately if you trust graph and statistics thrown around by graph nerds. Then again, I see so many people of CFC and other Null blocks in High every day, that space they loath and want to see done away with. This hypocrisy is especially sickening, this complaining about nothing to do in Null sec/Low sec, while they run away from there at the same time.
It is sickening that these people are catered to.
It is sickening that CCP tries to lure more of these people into EVE, who are toxic to the game.
It is sickening that so many people only think about how to change High sec instead of putting thought and effort into finding ways to make Low and Null sec better without taking away from High sec.
It is sickening that so many people are just interested in gaining easy ways in the game and that they have such a large platform to push their ways forward.
It is sickening that people expect there to be all information and explanation dished to them on the silver platter when this game is absolutely about to find your way into by doing research, socializing and learning by doing/failing/succeeding. New players who fail at that are not suitable for this game and can and ought to be ignored. No amount of better NPE is going to make them stay as they just want to play things the way Angry Bird or Candy Crush or Farmville works. If you want to play EVE, you have to do research, you have to read, you have to look for and watch videos/read tutorials/info pieces, you have to ask around, you have to socialize. There are many fantastic guides, helps, information sources, and fact collections available on the internet, you just have to search for them. That does not just concern new players but also older, more experienced players. Not many people know about suitonia's or Agony's PVP tutorial videos, or videos from other people explaining things like the Market/Industry/Missions/and so on to a certain, sometimes shallow, sometimes deep, level. This current culture demanding of easily digestible content is that appalls me.
If you get wardeced during your first days, you just hop back into an NPC corp if you cannot keep up with the sudden change in pace. There are many ways to stay in touch with your "friends", if you wish to do so and if they wish to do so. However, EVE is a game, a social experiment, which is solely about drawing the dark nature out of every player. There are ways to avoid crossing their paths or cross it unnoticed; however, if you play EVE, you have to expect mischief to befall you sooner or later. The problem here is that this dark side has turned into a victimization complex, which is not so much about causing trouble to capable people anymore but rather to just find easy targets. More and more people are just after a quick kill instead of a fight, after a gank instead of a skirmish, something easy that does not require skill, effort, that is free of risk and that can be laughed at when it dies to you.
Also granted, I breath a sigh of disgust every time my alts get wardeced, because I am nothing but a tiny fish and will not expose myself to the wardeccers ever. I know my ways around them and I ignore them, while I continue to having fun the way I want to have fun. If they want to waste a couple of millions on my, so be it. I cannot keep them from doing it if they are incapable of finding worthy targets to fight, but in return they also cannot keep me from doing most of the things I want to do. That is a lesson you need to learn as a new player (and old players who leave disgruntled) in that situation and you need to learn to either live with it or live around it. If you cannot do that, you are not made for this game and it is better for both parties if you just leave.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Aven Yassavi
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2015-02-25 12:47:15 UTC
h4kun4 wrote:
I see it that way:

Eve is already overcrowded. surely there are parts of space which are totally empty, but thats because the sapce is not worth settling in at the moment. (Thats CCPs Job)
Making the game less risky would convince less players to leave which would even more lead into overcrowdment (Because useless space keeps being useless, no matter how many people play). A not small part of the players which would stay then, might also go to nullsec, means growing blobs, means less fun.

If they stop eve because someone ganked them, they will also stop later because theyve been treated unfairly and if you stop eve because someone stole your sweetroll, its better for you and for everyone else playing eve.

Im very glad eve is not WoW, I most likely couldnt stand the drama 5000 14 year olds would cause in eves community and i bet you couldnt too.
If you are annoyed by wardecs, go to an NPC corp or to nullsec/lowsec/wormholes. The opportunities are big.


Yes that is also kind of true there but still I think a corp which war decs 160 corps at the same time is strange. In the way I see war dec's
Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn
#12 - 2015-02-25 12:49:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Discomanco
So, concerning point #1, you seem to be mixing things up with the title.
"Why EvE will be a game of noobs in 10 years

There are 3 reasons why I think people leaving EvE
1. Eve looks very complex in the beginning and hard to understand. They don't really know how to find help or don't want to read every part of the tutorial."
So if all the new players leave the game, how is it going to be a game of noobs? It would just be a game of bittervets around.
That being said, NPE has improved tons over the past years, and is still improving during the year, with another overhaul(ish?) coming soon™, and had you followed stuff, you would know that CCP is actually working on new player academy videos https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQvKSs1k6DLO6iVoip6ZUa5xiG1Ak7hW_

Highsec is unsafer than low/null
It's as safe as you make it I'd say. Keep an eye out, know your way around, use the tools necessary and there's not much danger at all. Sure low and null CAN be safer if you're blue with your surroundings, but even then it doesn't stop roamers.
The only reason it's safer, is because you know who's friendly and who wants to blap you in the face

Wardec prices
No opinion from me
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#13 - 2015-02-25 12:52:29 UTC  |  Edited by: McChicken Combo HalfMayo
Aven Yassavi wrote:
2. High sec is way unsafer then low/null/wh space
Just to give you guys an example I know a lot people who live in null sec space or low sec who lost WAY more isk wise in high sec then in the space they live. How is that even possible? A space which is made for beginners which is the most dangerous space?

It's simple really. When outside of highsec players don't think they are safe so they take precautions when flying with cargo or expensive fits. When inside of highsec players wrongly assume they are safe so take no precautions when flying with cargo or expensive fits. It is a player problem not a highsec problem.

Aven Yassavi wrote:
There should only be 2 reasons for pvp in high sec and that is wars or duals

There is already a thread for this kind of suggestion.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin

Aven Yassavi
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2015-02-25 12:53:34 UTC
Alright thanks for your opinion. Thats what I wanted to see good feed back from all of you guys will think about it more!
fly safe
Bob Maths
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-02-25 12:54:13 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Ix Method wrote:
Be curious to know why you think people are entitled to make unlimited, risk-free isk in highsec?

Aven Yassavi wrote:
Isk in high sec should be easy yes but it should be way less so if you want to make money you have to go to low/null/wh space.

rant


Again, why should you be entitled to ruin other peoples fun and frustrate them because of a lack of capability on their side?
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-02-25 12:59:01 UTC
Bob Maths wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Ix Method wrote:
Be curious to know why you think people are entitled to make unlimited, risk-free isk in highsec?

Aven Yassavi wrote:
Isk in high sec should be easy yes but it should be way less so if you want to make money you have to go to low/null/wh space.

rant


Again, why should you be entitled to ruin other peoples fun and frustrate them because of a lack of capability on their side?



I'm going to go ahead and quote myself:


afkalt wrote:
Eve players: Furiously defending the 'sandbox' whilst yelling that everyone else is playing in it wrong since 2003.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-02-25 12:59:28 UTC
Bob Maths wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Ix Method wrote:
Be curious to know why you think people are entitled to make unlimited, risk-free isk in highsec?

Aven Yassavi wrote:
Isk in high sec should be easy yes but it should be way less so if you want to make money you have to go to low/null/wh space.

rant


Again, why should you be entitled to ruin other peoples fun and frustrate them because of a lack of capability on their side?


They aren't 'entitled to' ruin someone elses play, they do so because they can and understand the mechanics that allow them to do so. Equally players can use the game mechanics to avoid such day ruination. Players just need to learn how and that comes from experience or tips from other players.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#18 - 2015-02-25 13:00:17 UTC
Bob Maths wrote:
Again, why should you be entitled to ruin other peoples fun and frustrate them because of a lack of capability on their side?

Care to explain? How am I ruining other people's fun and frustrate them when I expect them to play the game how it is supposed to be played? I despise software like Angry Bird and people who expect everything to be like it. EVE is not supposed to like that so how do I ruin fun where people never had any rights to expect fun because of the fundamentally different nature between their expectations and the reality around EVE?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#19 - 2015-02-25 13:03:27 UTC
Bob Maths wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Ix Method wrote:
Be curious to know why you think people are entitled to make unlimited, risk-free isk in highsec?

Aven Yassavi wrote:
Isk in high sec should be easy yes but it should be way less so if you want to make money you have to go to low/null/wh space.

rant


Again, why should you be entitled to ruin other peoples fun and frustrate them because of a lack of capability on their side?

Why should a lack of capability on their side determine what players are allowed to do to them? You aren't entitled to many things in EVE, but one of the things you are entitled to is the right to use game mechanics in any way you please. It's the spirit of the game.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-02-25 13:06:32 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
Bob Maths wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Ix Method wrote:
Be curious to know why you think people are entitled to make unlimited, risk-free isk in highsec?

Aven Yassavi wrote:
Isk in high sec should be easy yes but it should be way less so if you want to make money you have to go to low/null/wh space.

rant


Again, why should you be entitled to ruin other peoples fun and frustrate them because of a lack of capability on their side?

Why should a lack of capability on their side determine what players are allowed to do to them? You aren't entitled to many things in EVE, but one of the things you are entitled to is the right to use game mechanics in any way you please. It's the spirit of the game.


The only thing that an Eve subscription entitles a player to do is train skills and play the game. Everything else is at the players and every other players discretion. That's what makes Eve such a good game.
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