Player Features and Ideas Discussion

lol Baltec. I'm going to treat that as a serious question, to say this piece.

I think it's important to remember there will always be a best course of action, and as long as the options available are the same for everyone, it will never be catastrophic. Relatively speaking.

Maybe I'm forgetting about people who have stopped training a character after completing the skills for a specific fit. And my assumption is that people are ready for changes to skills, with characters cross-trained in armor and shields. In my defense, it's not so crazy that an Amarr character would lack shield skills, or a Caldari character will lack armor skills. I was such a Caldari character for some time. Making use of unconventional tanks requires off-race cross-training already, so this isn't a case of suddenly making skill requirements broader.

One huge benefit of having thoroughly cross-trained characters is being ready for whatever fit comes your / my way, and not having to worry about changing skill requirements. So yeah, lately I've forgotten this is a luxury.

I don't mean to nerf anyone. If something like this would mean a nerf to some people due to the state of their skill sheet, that wasn't my intention.

In fact I doubt a simple pruning of hit points and tank slots would make sense--this is a wild idea and would also involve more balance changes and hopefully buffs. I think it could turn out great since ships will no longer be stepping on each others' toes, so to speak, by having a cross-race tank capability.

To put it simply, if ships were more distinct from each other, they could receive buffs without encroaching on other ships. I'd prefer to see everything get buffed, rather than nerfed, for the sake of keeping EVE kill-y.

I hope people think in terms of 'what if' rather than nerfs and buffs.

Kabark, thanks for stopping by. That's a sensible requirement, that specifying a ship's tank should have benefits. Perhaps I forgot to stress that part, and assumed it was understood that not all F&Is are perfect from the start.

Doing something like this would require a fundamental shift in mechanics, moving away from the fairly binary "hit-points vs damage per second" to a model of "shield/armour penetration" vs over-match and "behind shield/armour effects".

Oh and of course probabilistic systems damage once you do punch through the outer 'hard' layer... (based upon the % over-match...)

in this case;

Caldari would have the 'hardest' shields, but anything getting through is likely to cause significant damage,
Amarr the hardest armour, feeble shields and relatively mediocre systems resilience
Gallente the most resilient systems to shield/armour penetrations,
Minmatar the second most resilient shields and *insert something 'fluffy' about `duct tape' Ref. systems damage*


....In short, it would be an entirely different game, so possibly not really achievable...

For the record Rain, I don't hate the idea. Heck, when it hits me right, I like it. But selling CCP devs on the effort vs reward of the idea, and convincing the playerbase over this one, is going to be tough.

I'm OK with your opinion. But I want to point out that your post lacks thought, is a meme, and a trigger rolled into one.

Not every idea needs to be puzzled over for hours before you can see it takes so much more away than it adds.

but im ok with the fact you dont have a sense of humour.

No

anyway what I do think should be updated (I know it wont) is what the racial tanks are.

Minmatar make perfect sense Speed > what ever you could fit > ???? > profit. so really favoring active shielding as it keeps your sig low and dose not comprise speed, but all is up for grabs.

Ammar, for some reason I always figured they should be shield buffer tanked. they shoot lasers, have the best cap, their the oldest race in the game. but use big tungsten plates for defense.

Gallente, armor buffer tanked, their drone boats allow for the best RR setups.

Caldari make the least sense. their supposed to be E-war heavy but their ships use mids to tank..... missiles only have one low slot damage mod. so why not make them tank in the lows? mids are also need for painters.

Loooong long ago, several of us in the Minmatard Channel had a long discussion about why the ships are the way they are and things about the Gallente kept missing the mark while other races hit it on the head.

Something about:
shields being strength of society's own beliefs and culture against outside belief systems and cultures.
armor being the strength of society resistance to change
hull being the strength of ability of society's beliefs to adaptive to changes without damage.

Accordingly, how things would look now...

Shields: Caldari, Minmatar, Gallente, Amarr
Caldari get bonus to resistance and HP reflecting the rigidness of their ideology
Minmatar get bonus to reps reflecting ability to adapt without breaking
Gallente have no bonus, but can put up good resistance to negative influences
Amarr have almost no shields at all, no defense for their way of life

Armor: Amarr, Gallente, Minmatar, Caldari
Amarr get bonus to resistance and HP synonymous with societal rigidity. Increase Amarr armor by 1/4.
Minmatar are tribalistic but future thinking and should have just slightly more armor than Gallente and the Shield rep bonus applied to Armor repair systems. Weaker than Gallente, but repper bonuses. Reduce Gallente Armor by 1/4.
Gallente are democratic, doesn't mean united across all fronts like the Amarrian religious or even Minmatar traditionalist front. Their can be times of extremes, but actually able to handle more pressure than Minmatar. Stronger than Minmatar, but no repper bonuses.
Caldari the weakest with many fractures in societal fabric, but expected when State>Self

Hull: Gallente, Amarr, Minmatar, Caldari
We actually considered the Minmatar more able to survive dramatic changes better than the Amarr, but eventually agreed the Minmatar are operating out of a tribal system with many factions by nature than the Amarr with largely a single religion and leader adoration.

Gallente Hull
So the Gallente Armor might be greater in amount than Minmatar, but the Minmatar get a repper bonus, so how to give Gallente a hull rep bonus in keeping with their ability to withstand societal change that would destroy the other empires, but also reflect their ability after great upheaval to reunite as a people?

Changes to Local Hull Reps
Currently have 24 second cycle and repair hull for capacitor on a 1:1 ratio, which isn't competitive against shield boosters and armor repairers.
small: 12s, 60 hull, 90 cap
medium: 12s, 120 hull, 180 cap
large: 12s, 240 hull, 360 cap

Changes
Gallente: +25% more hull, but the -25% less armor stated above
Create Hull Resistance Plates -increase hull resistances at cost of armor resistances
Create Reinforced Structure Coatings -increase structure amount at cost of speed
Bonus to the Hull Repairers and Remote Hull Repairs
Amarr, Minmatar, Caldari -remain as is
Hull Repairer becomes Low-Slot to keep from messing with Gallente slots layout


easy fix for Remote Hull Repairers -match their stats to the Remote Armor Repairers and then make the logis provide the same bonuses to the Remote Hull Repairers as they do the Remote Armor Repairers.

As far as actual slot layouts went, we noticed amarr/caldari mids and lows flipped, likewise for gallente/minmatar.

I think we also discussed why ECM isn't high slot and why shield boosters aren't low-slot, but most of us had sobered by then and logged off.

AWESOME! LESS CHOICE IN HOW I FIT/USE MY SHIPS!
Said noone ever.



**** idea is **** -1

There are many ways to game likes you know, if you feel like doing it. There's a likes and get likes thread somewhere where everyone just circle jerk likes everywhere, but I believe Rain's came from an experiment with massively replicated alts chain upvoting. Some guy recently gave himself like 4k likes overnight.

But you do realize that EvE is a game about choice and consequence, right?

If you remove peoples ability to make a choice you're essentially removing a core part of the gameplay. This is what people are referring to when they say "because of :reasons:".

One of the best parts of EvE is having the freedom to fit your ship however you like. Be that an armour tanked laser Cormorant or a shield tanked projectile Armageddon. Or even fitting small guns or mining lasers to a Moros. The point is we can if we so desire and sometimes these choices create exceptionally fun gameplay and keep the universe a very diverse one.

If you try to remove that core fundamental freedom when it has no negative effect on the game then people are going to tell you to crawl back under your bridge.

With reference to the Phoebe changes; Capital ship projection was a real problem in Eve and Phoebe has really increased the possibilities rather than limited them. More small fights (which is what people really want) occur. People aren't afraid of commiting capitals to smaller random fights anymore as they know it will take a hell of a lot longer than previously (about 8 minutes) to get a 3rd party curb stomp fleet dropped in on the fight. That was an issue.

The fact that I can shield tank a Celestis and fly it for pure combat instead of only flying it in its EWAR role is not an issue.

The fact that Chribba can mine in a Dreadnaught is not an issue.

The fact that an amour ECM Drake can actually work, isn't an issue.

Do you need me to provide more examples?