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Dev blog: Opportunities Abound - The New Player Experience

First post First post First post
Author
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#141 - 2015-02-21 07:59:52 UTC
Jackyla Terokkar wrote:
The current text for "Inject a New Skill" is:
"New skills can be acquired from the Market. A good way to discover what skills you might be interested in is the Interbus Ship Identification System, which can be found in Neocom. Once you have a new skillbook, right click and select inject."

As a non english person, this was a somewhat non logical order. I somehow linked getting the new skillbook with the ISIS. Would the sentence not be better like :
"A good way to discover what skills you might be interested in is the Interbus Ship Identification System, which can be found in Neocom. New skills can be acquired from the Market. Once you have a new skillbook, right click and select inject."




"A good way to discover what skills you might be interested in is the Interbus Ship Identification System, which can be found in Neocom. New skills can be acquired from the Market. Once you you acquire a new skill book, its placed in your inventory, locate the book, right click and select inject. When not all required skills are trained, look at the "show info" tab "prerequisites" to acquire those books first."

Corrected that for you.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#142 - 2015-02-21 08:07:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Ran thru the current opportunity set.


Had an opportunity not get recognized that was completed before down time. Bug report in.

Really needs a sell something opportunity.

The fact that the default 100 isk item is never the station you are at even if you can buy it there is still messed up.

Character sheet home station cannot be right clicked to set destination. Inconsistent with the rest of the UI and the first place new players will look because the autopilot location search function is not shown right away.

The current opportunity set does not direct you back to the new rookie site.

Missed the tutorial pages that explain everything. Even if they are not on the path players will take to learn. Players still need to access a how to do that thing page. The Evelopedia is currently to rough a source for new players and is the only place that the help window directs players to if they have a question.

Adds:

Market should be its own Opportunity set it detracts from stuff you can only do in station that early stuff like processioning the ore you mined would be a great add in that spot.

More overview tabs are good but they are not talked about so if you switched to mining or warp to there is no reminder to go back the general for red "X" shooting.

As this idea is A/B tested on TQ will the player A/B testing the new track be able to access the old tutorial Sugar Kyle seems to think so but current Sisi build cuts out everything even the help screen access point.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#143 - 2015-02-21 13:43:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
1. You forgot to highlight the undock button before inviting players to give double clicking in space a try.

See all opportunities (opportunities map) is way too convoluted. There isn't enough visual cue to establish a sequence or a common thread. The pentagon layout makes this worse. This is no time for flashy arrangements... why did you suddenly depart from lists in this case? You've outdone yourselves.

2. Are you aware the opportunities dropdown disappears when I undock?

3. Clicking the popup (if I happen to remember to double click for the first opportunity) brings up the opportunities map. Again, way too confusing and lacks flow (or sequence).

4. You forgot to tell me how to warp anywhere to find a Hostile NPC before "Time to Fight"

Why not call them achievements? Gamers know what to do with achievements. Enjoy hunting them, even. Saying I'm hunting opportunities makes me sound like a struggle rapper.

You really need speech to go with these instructions. Aura is a head with text. Even Peppy Hare had voice when he instructed the player to do a barrel roll.

Aura falls short of the MS Office Paperclip. Would it be more motivating to have, instead of a holo-woman, an R2-D2? Not just for players, but for devs? Instead of having to pay a voice actress, you could just use flashes and beeps?

You think that's a good idea, don't you. Pay the voice actress already!

Suddenly EVE makes sense as a game designed by programmers. (omggg you guys are so out of touch... what are we going to doooo???)
Phoenix Jones
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2015-02-21 15:18:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
Rain6637 wrote:

Aura falls short of the MS Office Paperclip. Would it be more motivating to have, instead of a holo-woman, an R2-D2? Not just for players, but for devs? Instead of having to pay a voice actress, you could just use flashes and beeps?

You think that's a good idea, don't you. Pay the voice actress already!


If you really REALLY want to do something cool, have CCP Mimic do the voiceovers in Eve. If your doing in-game instructional voice, it might as well be from a developer. Aura's fine but robotic.

I means she's right freaking there!!!!

Yaay!!!!

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#145 - 2015-02-21 15:32:46 UTC
I'm down with that idea, but there's still the immersion that stands to be broken when an in-game figure tells the player to double click in space. The whole thing would have to be prefaced with an RP explanation that the screen is your perception of your surroundings from the inside of your pod.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#146 - 2015-02-21 16:39:52 UTC
i tried it and i really like it. Teaches things like manual piloting much better as the old tutorial.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Mharius Skjem
Guardians of the Underworld
#147 - 2015-02-21 18:39:48 UTC
'Hostile Ships not controlled by players...'

Shouldn't it be 'hostile ships not controlled by Capsuleers'

Immersion is dying fast in this game.

A recovering btter vet,  with a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve...

Don't take me too seriously though, I like to tease a bit on the forums, but that's only because I love you...

Damassys Kadesh
Eternal Damnation of the Woken Mind
#148 - 2015-02-21 18:44:02 UTC
Forgive me if this has been brought up (here or elsewhere) but a screenshot from the Dev blog reminded me of this:

I think it would be very helpful to have NPC overview icons colorized based on standings. The example that I'm thinking of is in Factional Warfare, where you will see a red NPC inside a complex even if they are friendly to your faction. I'm sure there are a few other instances where this could apply.

While on this subject, has there been any thought to colorizing the targeting indicator (on the overview) to show incoming buffs? Like so:

-being targeted = yellow
-being aggressed = red
-being buffed = green (or blue)
(-being buffed and aggressed alternates the colors?)

This is basic information that would be very helpful for new players as they encounter these situations.

Sourem Itharen > Congratulations Lady Kadesh, you have been selected by trial of fire and blood, under the watchful eyes of God, to represent Lord Khanid as his champion in the Imperial Succession trials -YC117

Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#149 - 2015-02-21 18:52:29 UTC
Opportunities are awesome. I hope there are many of all kinds and pretty soon. I think they can replace the ship spinning feature :)

But i think there needs to be some rewards in them. I am of an opinion that sp rewards would be the perfect solution to spice up the feature and make it very important for everyday life in New Eden. Take for example DUST514 i think they overdone it a bit there by earning sp trough playing but it is an awesome feeling progressing your character trough playing also.

Separate opportunities into groups. Example:
Opportunities about fighting gives you sp in gunnery, missiles, spaceship command
Opportunities about mining gives you sp in resource processing...
And so on.

It doesn't have to be an awful lot of sp. Let say around the number of 1 mil sp if all opportunities are completed.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.

Tyrendian Biohazard
Ubiquitous Hurt
The WeHurt Initiative
#150 - 2015-02-21 19:03:32 UTC
I ran through the new NPE on stream and highlighted it here.

My few thoughts

- Showing hot-keys in conjunction with the icons would be nice. I myself have typically bound keys, and tend to look for what it is when I start a game to see if it is something I would want to remap.

- A highlight feature for the buttons when the opportunity is active. Perhaps something that is a square starting around the edge of the screen, and collapses down to the button. Similar to how if you minimize a window to the Neocom. It would help draw focus to the important areas of the UI.

- I personally didn't have a problem, but the "Lock Asteroid" opportunity doesn't specifically state about finding an asteroid on the overview similar to how it does with NPCs to shoot. I think it should be uniform in how this information is presented (in this case, the overview) especially when in areas of the game there are asteroid looking objects that are not mine-able.

- The "Buy Something" opportunity doesn't specifically state what to buy, which is OK for openness, but would be nice to have it lightly guide towards buying a skill book to lead into the skill training opportunity.

- The "Inject Skill" references the Ship Identification System, but doesn't show what the icon looks like on the Neocom. Would be helpful to identify that.

- "Inject Skill" opportunity comes early when character has no money. it is nice as it helps guide a new player to "hey, you need to make a bit of money before progressing", but also a bit of a curve-ball as it seems to be the only opportunity that really makes you go outside the defined area to accomplish the task. Specifically going to a Rogue Clone site and kill rats, or mine.

- Possible to add hacking containers to Rogue Clone sites in addition to just combat and mining inside them?

- It might be nice to be able to reset the opportunities (individually, or as a whole). There are times in my EVE career I've done things, and didn't know how I did it. It can be reviewed since the opportunities don't disappear altogether, but also might be nice for the new players to entirely reset them so that they can be done multiple times, with the appropriate triggers, to understand what they are doing.

- Would be nice that when completing the warping opportunity, that there is a brief mention that gates that lead to your destination are yellow. This would help in the hand off to the career agents.

Anyways, just my 2 cents! I love the work on this. It blows me away how simplified it is in its explanation, but also doesn't really change the mechanics of the game. It allows for openness, but guides appropriately. Great work!!

Twitch streamer and EVE NT tournament broadcaster.

XeX Znndstrup
#151 - 2015-02-21 22:01:13 UTC  |  Edited by: XeX Znndstrup
Old tutorials are not so bad.
These ones and Opportunities new system could work together.

Some players need to be coached with tutorials.
Others will like freedom offered by the new system.

Think about this before breaking current tutorials.

After...
Eve Online will always be a game that supposes some patience.
New players who stay in the game are those who like what Eve proposes.
I don't really think that current tutorials can explain why some don't stay more than 14 days.
The only reason is they don't try to understand or try to be helped. Because they like more accessible and immediate games.
You will never succeed in keeping players if they like Left 4 Dead game type.

A new player has a lot of means to understand this world : tutorials, GM, Rookies channel, Evelopedia, forums.
If you want to take the time to understand, you have really a lot of informations for this.
The problem is that it takes time to read or ask.
But isn't this also the pleasure and the interest of this game ?

Judge of The Law Organization and President of Stellar Order.

"Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light". John Milton, Lost Paradise.

@ /// f

Sohl Ni-Zha
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2015-02-22 00:20:39 UTC
'That CCP executive producer we have now... Well I can only be sorry she isn't the prime minister of my country's government.

delivering. drugs.  IG channel: Narcotics

Fuzzanator
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#153 - 2015-02-22 02:21:06 UTC
the Opportunities new system is great it will be even better if you add even more opportunities to it
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#154 - 2015-02-22 14:48:40 UTC
Traiori wrote:
Why not make opportunities give a small, almost negligible, amount of assignable SP? Maybe an hour or two of training at base rates, with the intent of ensuring that it totals under 48h total?

Whilst SP traditionally comes from time only, the most frequent concern I hear from new players is that they don't have the skills for this or that, and that it takes time away from their training to pick up the basic required skills. Giving a nominal amount of SP as a reward for exploring the game would both provide them with a reimbursement for the new aspects that they're encouraged to try alongside allowing them to feel less of the "week one" training fatigue.

Better still, offering 250k SP (or whatever) is a huge advantage to a new player with only 600k SP but is measurably less useful to current players with 60-100m+ SP. It wouldn't even be a tenth of most skills in my skillqueue at the minute, but would probably be the entirety of most of my friends new player account skillqueues. Some kind of training booster (ala cerb accelerator) would work equally well I suppose, offering 30-60 minutes of advanced training via drugs...but would be more useful to older players who would immediately start trying to buy the booster in vast quantities.

You'd also have to tie rewards to the account I suppose, lest we all start using these rewards to generate gank alts in 250k SP training time less.

I don't like the presedent this sets I also think it kind of works against your original goal. Yes new players feel like they don't have the skills that they need to be useful or effective but just handing them skill points would only exaggerate and reinforce that feeling. To get them beyond that you need to show them how quickly that level 1 skills train and how they can be useful right off the bat. Just giving them skill points to me sends the message that they are only as useful as the number of skill points that they have which is a mistaken conclusion that many of them come to anyway.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#155 - 2015-02-22 15:49:50 UTC
I think this all sounds decent. I like the idea of getting missions out of the NPE. With the breadcrumb style questing that many of the WoW clones use to teach players and then lead them into dailies many players come to Eve from other (WoW like) MMOs with an expectation of something similar. So they do the tutorial missions then run level 1 missions and get bored by level 2 missions and then start wondering why they are playing this game. So getting missions completely out of the NPE I think is great. Missions need to be something that they come across on their own no different than any ofher "profession".

Another problem that I see with a lot of converts from other MMOs is getting them over the concept of a level cap or BiS (Best in Slot) gear. Many of them feel that they can't PvP and won't be useful with out faction fit T2 Dreadnaughts. They have to be taught that bigger is not always better and more expensive is not usually ideal especially in PvP. So these new players wait on skill points and save up and build a pimped out ship that took them a month of doing level 2 missions to afford only to loose it with in 5 seconds of jumping into low sec for the first time. I can't even remember how many forum posts I've seen on this. Players wondering how anyone could even play this game when you have to grind missions for a month just to PvP for 5 seconds.

On this next point keep in mind that I spend a bit of time on the New Player Q&A section of the forum so this might be something common only to the player type that goes there for answers. That being said I see a lot of players trying to "go it alone" and they think that they can solo eve. They go to the forum for help and shortly there after leave a rage post about how this game is not playable. This game needs to be played with friends and I think they need to get that idea in their head as soon as possible. With that in mind maybe we could have some type of group content in the new player areas.Something that forces new player to fleet up and help each other out or get help from vets or something like that to complete a specific goal. But ideally not content that is just too difficult for them and they need to be "carried" through.

Continuing on the group efforts idea I think that there are some core game mechanics that could be changed to help new players. I throw these out there in the base idea state knowing that they need to be fine tuned and knowing that I am talking about core game mechanics here but listen with an open mind and try to see if these idea can be improved on and not just shoot them down. That being said let's move forward.

So I think that either fleet boosts need to be moved from skill based to be fleet sized based or incorporate fleet size into the boost system. Either that or get rid of command ships and the associated boosts and make those boosts fleet sized based. The idea here would be that just being in fleet is a help to everyone else. It gets all players not only new players thinking more towards group dynamics and less towards solo game play. For mining boosts I've even had some ideas about ways that we could work this in with yield to create a more interesting and more group focused dynamic but I'll not divert down that path here.

Burner missions I think were a good idea but I was thinking that they should be something more group focused. As they are now you can solo them with an expensive fit T2 or faction frig if you are nearly all level 5 skills. However if you want 2 people to do them both ships need to be expensive fit T2 or faction frigs with high skills. There might be a way to do these with cheap ships with 5 or more people but at lower group sizes they don't seem to scale. I'd love to use those as an excuse to get new players feeling useful in fleet. Burners are frigs only so it's something that they can fly and if they could help me do content that I either can not do alone or would be very difficult to do alone that would be great.

Also for the health of the game in general but also to help new players if we could just start thinking of new game mechanics for PvE mostly (since PvP is already a "the more the merrier" situation) that incorporate group play. For example I can bring new players with me into level 4 missions or running higher level anoms in null or what ever we do for isk but I really just wind up splitting the bounties with them. From an isk stand point it's mostly me doing it just to have friends with but it would be nice if soloable content were somehow more beneficial to do in groups.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#156 - 2015-02-22 16:02:08 UTC
Another idea that I have to help new players is the ability to make "all level 5" characters on SiSi. This I think would help new players in many ways. First off they could go on SiSi and get on their all level 5 character and PvP vets and see how the skill points don't make them a better player. Also this would allow them to try out various things and help envision the future or at least see what vets are talking about.

Some examples of what I mean are that they could get in a dreadnaught or a titian and see for themselves that it's not an "end game" goal that they actually need or even want to plan for. Also they could try out different ships for example and see which path they want to go down on TQ. So they could try out all 4 Marauders would be one example and decide if they want to focus on missiles or projectiles or lazors or hybrids etc...

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#157 - 2015-02-22 16:35:40 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
I'm posting this on request and on behalf of the character Dredd Lochness Munster as he as a new player can not post it here himself.
The original post can be found here
. ISD Ezwal.


Dredd Lochness Munster wrote:

Trial, so can't comment in the official thread.

I was never a fan of the "board your ship in space" tutorial.

However, the new one leaves a TON to be desired.

In the "kill a rat" opportunity, it should have them show info on the gun to see range.

It starts them with 5K ISK. Then it tells them to buy "something" from the market. Maybe a hint to buy a unit of ammo or something else that is cheap. No mention of jumps, or that items don't move on their own?

Finally, it tells them to buy a skill from the market, then inject it and train it. And yet, they now have less than 5K ISK. Off singularity, they are not going to be able to get skill books for 100 ISK.



I hope this is a test of the opportunity mechanism, and NOT a test of the content. Mechanism A+++++++. Current content = D.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Acelin Verand
Doomheim
#158 - 2015-02-22 18:05:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Acelin Verand
Ran through the "Opportunities" system today. I sincerely tried to approach my run-through as a completely objective, new player and I made a couple observations/notes along the way:

- Camera zoomed in too closely on log-in... Perhaps touch on camera controls as you did in the current tutorial (03:Camera Movement)?
- Did not really explain "Open Cargo" or that you must be within 2,500m... maybe intentional.
- Fitting a module is not really explained at all...
- For the market portion, perhaps provide a recommendation to a skill book that is appropriate and affordable for a new pilot? (Maybe Repair Systems?)
- Pointing straight to the Career Agents is fine, however knowing how to get to them might be worth explaining.

Keeping in mind the demographics and reputation of EVE, I agree that simplifying the NPE is a correct decision. I understand and appreciate the challenge of balancing a "hand-holding" methodology against a completely free one, however I would argue that a game like EVE should lean towards hand-holding through the most critical aspects of the gameplay. At least until the new player/pilot can be reasonably expected to figure it out on their own. Thank you for your efforts and thanks for the "opportunity" (cheesy, I know) to provide input.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
SLYCE Pirates
#159 - 2015-02-22 18:42:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
This new system is begging for a ISIS style skills and career visualizations to complement it.

Add:

For bug hunting purposes please plan to reset any opportunities you make any changes to even text. So we know which have had changes to them or where added.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#160 - 2015-02-23 16:03:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
correction: Hexagons. not pentagons.

They still seem after-the-fact.

Gamers dislike tutorials because it implies the fun stuff is still not happening (so it's good to not call them tutorials). I still think they should be called achievements. A familiarity thing.

"Opportunities" as a sidebar title stands out too much. Regardless of the name, it should be an icon rather than the whole name. "Autopilot" would stick out just as much.

Wait, it doesn't say "Autopilot" when you show route, does it?