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Remove Ship and Cargo Scanners
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Gaufres
Just Keep Hanging On
#1 - 2015-02-17 03:14:52 UTC
There is no counter to these devices and there should be. If CCP does not want to make a module to counter these items, they should probably be removed.
Drachen Protectorate
TSOE Po1ice
TSOE Consortium
#2 - 2015-02-17 08:21:50 UTC
Gaufres wrote:
There is no counter to these devices and there should be. If CCP does not want to make a module to counter these items, they should probably be removed.


Blockade runners counter cargo scanning.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#3 - 2015-02-17 09:06:41 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Bear in mind that the Cargo Scanner can only pick up ~80% of the things you are carrying.

If you load up your cargo bay with lots of small, useless items (like Exotic Dancers, documents, and one of each mineral) then it "overloads" the player scanning you with tons of information that has to be sifted through.
Remember... players who are planning for a gank are looking for "easy targets"... not ones that make them want to pull their hair out.


Ship scanners... PvPers don't care. And if you are concerned about being ganked then you should not be flying all "purple" fits in the first place. If you want to... then take precautions and fly "defensively."

How did you Veterans start?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#4 - 2015-02-17 09:22:52 UTC
Gaufres wrote:
There is no counter to these devices and there should be. If CCP does not want to make a module to counter these items, they should probably be removed.
But there are counters.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2015-02-17 10:08:07 UTC
but OP, cargo scanners have perfectly legitimate PVE uses.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#6 - 2015-02-17 10:28:44 UTC
Gaufres wrote:
There is no counter to these devices and there should be. If CCP does not want to make a module to counter these items, they should probably be removed.

As was said there is a counter to cargo scanners, and ship scanners are not perfect in the information they provide.

In principle I would not be against a module that confused a ship scanner, but since this information is provided for free upon destruction of the ship via killmail anyways, I am not sure anyone one would bother fitting it. Certainly though, ship scanners have too much utility to just remove from the game for no real reason.

The overview also provides the ship type with no counter, just like the "Look At" button give information regarding fitting with no counter. Should we remove those too?

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-02-17 11:56:04 UTC
Counters to scanning modules:

Cloaking devices (can't scan what you can't see)
Instawarping ships (can't scan what you can't lock)
Blockade runners (immune)
Double wrapped cargos (pick up a contract on an alt, then contract the shipment to your haulier)

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#8 - 2015-02-17 16:45:14 UTC
True that you can't fit a module to block a cargo scan, but at the same time CCP has generously provided the Loot Pinatas which offer that counter as part of the ship. Unfortunately the Loot Pinatas can't be tanked anywhere near as well as well any other hauling ship so the sacrifice you make for not letting people see what you have is to make it very easy for them to kill you even if you don't have anything.

As for the ship scanner, I find it to be very peculiar, as it has an optimal range, but is never ever anywhere near complete on its result. I've had to scan a ship I was sitting right next to a dozen times to get enough module info to be able to piece together the actual fit in EFT. Though usually the people you need to scan won't just sit there and let you scan all day until you figure out their fit. So if there were to be a module to counter a ship scanner by confusing it, then the ship scanner would need to be more accurate if not be able to give you the complete fit if you are inside of optimal or whatever.
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#9 - 2015-02-17 16:50:49 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:
Counters to scanning modules:

Cloaking devices (can't scan what you can't see)
Instawarping ships (can't scan what you can't lock)
Blockade runners (immune)
Double wrapped cargos (pick up a contract on an alt, then contract the shipment to your haulier)
lol... good ones...

Cloacking - yeah, the can still get a scan on you with a fast locking scan ship... you can't cloak if they lock you first.

Instawarping ships - even with a triple web hyena escorting a freighter, a fast locking scan ship can still lock and start the scan, which is all they need to do as long as a scan starts on a ship you will see the cargo contents, and yes, i've seen it and done it myself just to make sure... instawarping ships aren't safe, just safer... they can still be scanned and still be victim to a headshot nado gang, or a normal gang if properly done

Blockade runners - aka loot pinatas, you take the chance to get blown up even if you aren't hauling anything, it is a target by itself

Double wrapped cargo - nothing says "hey guys I'm hauling expensive stuff I don't want you to see" like a double wrapped shipment...
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#10 - 2015-02-17 16:54:53 UTC
Grrr, gankers.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Black Pedro
Mine.
#11 - 2015-02-17 17:09:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Dangeresque Too wrote:
True that you can't fit a module to block a cargo scan, but at the same time CCP has generously provided the Loot Pinatas which offer that counter as part of the ship. Unfortunately the Loot Pinatas can't be tanked anywhere near as well as well any other hauling ship so the sacrifice you make for not letting people see what you have is to make it very easy for them to kill you even if you don't have anything.

Trade-offs friend, Eve is about trade-offs. There are plenty of viable ways to move your goods safely in highsec - just not a one-size-fits-all solution as it should be.

What is your goal for these changes? Force gankers to randomly destroy ships to get the delicious loot inside? Because that seems like a bad idea as it would remove much of the incentive to carry a reasonable amount of cargo, and actually cause empty ships to be popped all the time, something which already causes enough whining on the forums when gankers decide to do this.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Hiasa Kite
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-02-17 17:44:11 UTC
Dangeresque Too wrote:
Cloacking - yeah, the can still get a scan on you with a fast locking scan ship... you can't cloak if they lock you first.

Instawarping ships - even with a triple web hyena escorting a freighter, a fast locking scan ship can still lock and start the scan, which is all they need to do as long as a scan starts on a ship you will see the cargo contents, and yes, i've seen it and done it myself just to make sure... instawarping ships aren't safe, just safer... they can still be scanned and still be victim to a headshot nado gang, or a normal gang if properly done

Blockade runners - aka loot pinatas, you take the chance to get blown up even if you aren't hauling anything, it is a target by itself

Double wrapped cargo - nothing says "hey guys I'm hauling expensive stuff I don't want you to see" like a double wrapped shipment...

Does a server tick prioritise a recloak or ship lock? Is it whichever comes first? Either way, the scout has less than a second to react to your presence.

I wasn't talking about freighters.

Blockade runners have the same benefits and drawbacks as the cloaks they use.

The double wrap goes hand I'm hand with decoy ships carrying double-wrapped shipments.

Are you seriously complaining about a lack of an all-powerful anti scanning device? Given that you already have numerous options to hide your contents and there is literally no alternative to figure out someone's cargo, don't you think you're acting a little over-entitled?

"Playing an MMO by yourself is like masturbating in the middle of an orgy." -Jonah Gravenstein
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#13 - 2015-02-18 00:12:39 UTC
Hiasa Kite wrote:
I wasn't talking about freighters.
I'm sorry, I used an example... same applies to any ship that is getting webbed, just lock faster than the webber, simple. Unless you mean instawarping a hauling ship without a webber, which is much much slower and can easily be ganked regardless.
Iain Cariaba
#14 - 2015-02-18 17:44:26 UTC
Dangeresque Too wrote:
Double wrapped cargo - nothing says "hey guys I'm hauling expensive stuff I don't want you to see" like a double wrapped shipment...

Your idea - nothing says "hey guys I'm hauling expensive stuff I don't want you to see" like a module to hide from cargo scans
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#15 - 2015-02-18 18:01:53 UTC
Gaufres wrote:
There is no counter to these devices and there should be. If CCP does not want to make a module to counter these items, they should probably be removed.
Yep, that was my idea alright...
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#16 - 2015-02-18 18:55:18 UTC
Dangeresque Too wrote:
Gaufres wrote:
There is no counter to these devices and there should be. If CCP does not want to make a module to counter these items, they should probably be removed.
Yep, that was my idea alright...


Does repeating a dumb idea make it any less dumb?

I don't think so.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
#17 - 2015-02-19 16:23:17 UTC
Where did I repeat and encourage the including of a module to block cargo scans?

I listed an example of a ship that does it and how its generally a bad idea to fly because you get hit even if you are empty.

Maybe you are reading a different thread than I am?
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#18 - 2015-02-20 12:46:28 UTC
Dangeresque Too wrote:
Where did I repeat and encourage the including of a module to block cargo scans?

I listed an example of a ship that does it and how its generally a bad idea to fly because you get hit even if you are empty.

Maybe you are reading a different thread than I am?


you didnt but then I never said you did in the first place.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Mag's
Azn Empire
#19 - 2015-02-22 12:25:12 UTC
Dangeresque Too wrote:
I listed an example of a ship that does it and how its generally a bad idea to fly because you get hit even if you are empty.
Actually it's not a bad idea to fly it empty, unless you do it AFK. Which is why giving that ship a cargo scan immunity was such a bad idea. If flew correctly, it already had it.

I've had the same BR since it was able to fit a covert cloak. Fully t2 fit for cargo and never once been shot at. Even when moving really expensive items.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#20 - 2015-02-22 14:34:37 UTC
Mag's wrote:
I've had the same BR since it was able to fit a covert cloak. Fully t2 fit for cargo and never once been shot at. Even when moving really expensive items.


You do realise that engaging brain before hitting undock is an EULA violation, right? Also, it's just so unfair to the newbies.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
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