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Dev blog: Opportunities Abound - The New Player Experience

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Author
Obidiah Kane
Black Rebel Rifter Club
The Devil's Tattoo
#61 - 2015-02-19 18:08:38 UTC
This looks great - I tried to get my little gaming clan to join up last year; two stayed, three bailed on 21 days, all middle aged hardcore gamers...I will try and get one of the three to run through this new set up once its released - just from the screenies I get a better feel of the game trying to engage me.

The unique structures are great too, no matter how many times I said 'but it's space..it's like that', the 'it all looks the same' was repeated endlessly from my friends - until the dynamic and game play grab you, having impressive or pretty things to look at is crucial.

Looking forward to seeing it live.
Alain Colcer
Nadire Security Consultants
#62 - 2015-02-19 18:12:07 UTC
As a recruiter in a corp, i would like to know if the new player has completed a sub-group of opportunities...and start from there.

Will that be taken into account? would be nice for it to be shown in the character screen.
Tarpedo
Incursionista
#63 - 2015-02-19 18:12:19 UTC
This is nice but could be even better if "old player experience" had open-end missions too ("kill any 10 NPCs in asteroid belts", "visit 3 landmarks", "do 3 missions for a fleet", "pop 5 player ships", "get killmails for 100 million isk", etc.)
Ambassador Crane
Hellhound Productions
#64 - 2015-02-19 18:38:58 UTC
Forget the drones. It's because you're not starting them off with strippers! I'm tellin ya, it's all about the strippers!


But otherwise, it does look like a very interesting direction for NPE and I will certainly be interested in having a look and watching this develop further.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#65 - 2015-02-19 18:43:17 UTC
Obidiah Kane wrote:
This looks great - I tried to get my little gaming clan to join up last year; two stayed, three bailed on 21 days, all middle aged hardcore gamers...I will try and get one of the three to run through this new set up once its released - just from the screenies I get a better feel of the game trying to engage me.

The unique structures are great too, no matter how many times I said 'but it's space..it's like that', the 'it all looks the same' was repeated endlessly from my friends - until the dynamic and game play grab you, having impressive or pretty things to look at is crucial.

Looking forward to seeing it live.


Care to share their reasons for leaving?

As for rewards for opportunities, why not LP? Starter corps have LP stores. Ex: University of Caille has +1 implants for 750LP and 750k isk. They can choose what they want and either plug it in or sell it for more. Although, that might push them into missions.

Some SP might be better. But it would need to be limited or you'll get people farming SP. This however, would serve as an excellent lead-in for teaching about the skill queue.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Sam Spock
The Arnold Connection
#66 - 2015-02-19 18:54:21 UTC
You could add some of the skill books that the current tutorials give you to the drops in the new landmark sites. Speaking as someone who enjoys finding things I would go "what's that do" and jump in and check it out.

For people who want to use newbies in rookie ships to do tackle and stuff would the civilian warp disruptor and stasis web be good enough? If they drop from the landmark sites then the newbies will have them.

From what I recall the rookie ships also have a 5m3 drone bay. Velators at dawn here we come!

Here is a crazy idea: add a rookie ship only deadspace pocket to the starter systems that allows combat without concord getting in the way and put that as one of the opportunities.

Giving you Inconsistent grammar, speilling and Punct-uation since 1974!

Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#67 - 2015-02-19 18:59:39 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
I would really like to see the opportunity system branch into more advanced gameplay which would also help new players make isk--such as, opportunity goals for setting up PI on a planet, for doing research on a blueprint, for participating in an incursion, for joining faction war and running a "plex," for visiting a wormhole, for killing a sleeper in a wormhole, for running a lvl 1 or lvl 2 lvl 3 or lvl 4 mission, for having 10m isk in the wallet, and so on. It would also be nice, as other people suggested, for the system to have "social" goals, such as joining a fleet, starting a conversation with another player, getting a kill mail, and so on.


This looks incredibly similar to my list. Can go a lot further though as well. Look at wingspantt's:

Broadcast a chat message in w-space

Lot of options for us going forward :)


Followed closely by "Complete your first out of pod experience"
I welcome my new local chatting newbie overlords
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
Chao3 Alliance
#68 - 2015-02-19 19:04:43 UTC
These are excellent news!

I really like the non-linear approach and the fact of starting in a ship heading straight in space to a specific location that spawned just for you (I hope I understood correctly that each new player will have there anomaly spawning in the starter system when they first log in...)

I would recommend that probing be prohibited in starter systems though, by simply removing the ability to laucnh probes there. This would make sure nobody can mess with them as they figure out the first steps of a hopefully long and productive life in New Eden.

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Abby Silverwind
Project Valhalla.
The Initiative.
#69 - 2015-02-19 19:11:58 UTC
Looks great. Some of the best changes to the NPE in the last 10 years. Love that it moves away from the mission based system which pushes new players into L1 missions. Hopfully the these will eventully include intoductions to pvp and other experiance's that are not covered by the current system.

<3
Abbs'

Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me;

Your rod and your staff, they comfort me.

Drunk Posting Best Posting

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#70 - 2015-02-19 19:12:16 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:


As a funny side note: one of the stronger indicators for whether or not someone sticks with EVE is whether or not they used combat drones during their first 30 days. Maybe using drones is just so awesome that they decide to sub right then and there?! Or maybe it's just correlation related to depth of engagement. You be the judge!


Everyone wants to have their own minions of death!

Seriously though, it could be that it feels like a 'pet class' from other MMOs, and that strengthens the feeling that you're not alone in this cold harsh world and that at least someone will help you kill those nasty NPC redplusses. Soloing is traditionally easier for pet classes, and until one finds the right corp or social group, soloing is the way forward.

Perhaps the NPE should put more emphasis on drones... and tell players about the wonderfulness of the Ishtar that they should be training for... Lol

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Memphis Baas
#71 - 2015-02-19 19:18:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
CCP Delegate Zero wrote:
Our minds are still very open on rewards, we just need to see how things work without them and build from there. Some form of reward structure would have to be tailored to the experience the Opportunities framework provides.


In my opinion, skill books are excellent as newbie rewards. Newbies need a lot of skills so books are valuable to them, whereas veterans already have the skills so the core books are pretty much worthless to them.

Also: The user interface you have for these Opportunities, once the newbies are done with the NPE, they'll probably expect those user interface elements to continue throughout the game. Which may not be the case.
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
#72 - 2015-02-19 19:27:55 UTC
Good job CCP. Looking great so far.

Only two things, i'd like to mention.

1. Please don't spam new players with achievements/trophies. Don't treat players like stupid monkeys ("You pressed the right button! Good job! You unlocked bla bla...) like many other games do.

2. You want to give as little as possible guidance and let the player discover the game.
Quote:
we need to use testing to find out exactly how little explanation we can get away with

Fair enough. But i see a lot of potential for frustration, if you don't give the player enough information about the task.

For example: "Mine X m3 of ice in nullsec"
If i was a new player, i'd for sure want someone to tell me, that there are gate camps and bubbles along the way, what warp scrams are, etc. (You know, all the stuff that will get you killed) BEFORE i take my new retriever, which i spent most of my hard earned ISK on, on a suicide mission into null. Instead of just "Go to Null, find Ice Belt, press F1".

But anyway, i think this is a first step in the right direction. Good luck and keep it up!

PS: Just out of curiosity, do you have any numbers for us, on how many players actually stick to the game? Maybe a percentage of trails upgrading to full accounts?
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#73 - 2015-02-19 19:42:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
it could be a good replacement for the tutorials but don't think it should go further than that. "Killing a drifter" achievements will open a can of worms i am not sure you want to open. I already can see the "eve play through in 40 days" yt vids.

Let players create rulesets for other players to solve. Try to innovate instead of copying things form other games. Achievements are for GTA but not for player driven sandboxes.

again: great as tutorial replacement but PLEASE don't go too far.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
#74 - 2015-02-19 20:02:01 UTC
This looks good. Make sure it includes some cooperative activities. Here are some suggested tasks:

Fleet Activities:
1. Join a fleet.
2. Give or receive boosts.
3. Take squad/wing/fleet warp.
4. Broadcast 'enemy spotted'.
5. Activate a fleet assistance module (armor rep, remote sebo, etc)

PVP basics:
1. Get 'suspect' status.
2. Get somebody to shoot you.
3. Shoot a weapon or use an offensive module.
4. View your kill or loss report.
5. Type "gf" or ASCII art in local.

Givi Oskold
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2015-02-19 20:08:49 UTC
Unlike a lot of the players posting here, I'm an actual new player. I have to say that I find this change a bit confusing.

First off, EVE is very difficult to get started in with other players. The mechanics are just that and learning them is just like learning any other game. EVE is by far the most difficult game I've ever seen when it comes to socializing though since the level of distrust and disdain for new players is so high. Even reading these replies feels a bit like "What will the peasants be doing this year?". I am aware that it isn't the intent to be like that, but yeah.

Because socializing is actually difficult, I'm not sure how moving new players even further away from the game population is helpful. The missions are boring but they get the job done and it's the best way to get he skills and ships needed to actually attempt playing this game. I'm not clear on how removing access to the game itself is an "opportunity".

If you want a better new player experience, why not have some more variety in the missions instead of looping 5 missions until you stop logging in due to boredom?

What if the Corporation Finder was improved so instead of sitting in a station running skill sheets we might actually get into the game? The only reason the Corp Finder is only one step away from an RNG mechanic that provides almost no information to shop for potential groups to join. To be honest, Dotlan does a better job than the Corp Finder. Don't even get me started on the recruitment forum.

How about a tool like EFT, but in-game so we can actually see what the items do and learn how to put fits together without losing what little money we have or squandering SP on skills it turns out we didn't need yet? That would be enormously useful.

What if the overview DIDN'T need to be unf*@ked? What if it came out of the shoot ready to go so we could tell if we are looking at an actual hostile player or not? Some might consider that useful information.

We need to be able to get INTO the game, not moved further away with fewer rewards and less money. We actually NEED those missions to get anything done since we need the money. We're boned on SP since there isn't a way to grind those. Actions really mean very little in EVE.

Maybe I'm doing this wrong, but I already treat all the starter missions and Epic Arch missions as "opportunities" that I either choose to do or not. I'm not really seeing a difference in that regard. For instance, you can forget thinking that I'm going to be running all over the universe doing that Sisters mission thing. That's like 30 or 50 missions isn't it? Not even once my friend. If you think I should do that you better have a bucket of plex at the end of THAT rainbow!

How many people actually finish all of a tutorial before they go and just start playing a game, no matter what game it may be? Very few I'm sure. I came for pew-pew, not a class.

In a weird way, this new player experience looks like running dailies in Guild Wars 2. I really would advise never, ever getting to that point in EVE. Daily quests are awful, awful, awful.

That was all very negative, so how about some positives? I think EVE is a good game, even with its' issues. All games have issues. The new player experience isn't all that bad until you try to move into another corporation. that would be the players who cause that, so I don't fault CCP at all on that. New players can play the entire game at lower levels quite quickly and that's good.I don't mind the training since at least it seems like I'm dong something in the game. It does seem odd that there is little reward for actually PLAYING the game though. The game is quite nice looking too, which is always a plus.

Feel free to unleash the hate (like you needed my permission).
Phig Neutron
Rubicon Cubism
#76 - 2015-02-19 20:16:04 UTC
Givi Oskold wrote:
Because socializing is actually difficult, I'm not sure how moving new players even further away from the game population is helpful. The missions are boring but they get the job done and it's the best way to get he skills and ships needed to actually attempt playing this game. I'm not clear on how removing access to the game itself is an "opportunity".


Confirming that none of what you are saying makes any sense at all. It sounds like you think the boring tutorial missions are "the game", and that by getting players out into space exploring belts, stations, etc, and interacting with other players, that would be "removing access to the game itself". What?
Mynxee
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
#77 - 2015-02-19 20:16:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Mynxee
Bienator II wrote:
it could be a good replacement for the tutorials but don't think it should go further than that. "Killing a drifter" achievements will open a can of worms i am not sure you want to open. I already can see the "eve play through in 40 days" yt vids.

Let players create rulesets for other players to solve. Try to innovate instead of copying things form other games. Achievements are for GTA but not for player driven sandboxes.

again: great as tutorial replacement but PLEASE don't go too far.


I see nothing wrong with achievement awards/rewards. The right kind in the right amounts provide strong incentives and the gods know EVE's steep learning curve can sometimes require some incentive to stick with it.

What would REALLY be cool (once there is sufficient content in place) would be if players could could create one or more sharable Opportunities Sets that include a series of specific tasks. It would be even cooler if game mechanics gave a CEO or Directors a way to assign such a set to a character and then get notification when that character had completed the assignment, upon which we could then assign them a corp achievement medal. Thinking about megacorps like Brave Newbies, how nice would it be if the medal could be given automatically once requirements were completed (assuming the wallet contained the ISK to cover medal costs...maybe medal cost could be charged at the time of issuing an Opportunities Set assignment?). Just brainstorming ideas and how some things we have and do already could be more integrated with the NPE. Might even factor into new players wanting to join a player corp.

Edited to add, just because I so strongly believe in it even though it's sorta off-topic in this thread: Go back to starting players with a large pile of skill points. Distribute half among basic skills needed to fly and fly one racial frig with some reasonable cap, grid, and defense. Let the player put the other half into what interests them in game. Obviously this would have to be carefully balanced. I began playing in 2007. Back then, characters got 900K SPs to start and the game was a lot more fun a lot faster. I have never believed the faster learning speed for new bros made up for that.

Lost in space, looking for sigs...

Blog: Cloaky Wanderer

Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2015-02-19 20:22:42 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Innominate wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
I really want to highlight that one of the huge benefits of this system is to NOT drop people after a tutorial with no idea what to do next.


What do you expect new players to do when they have finished the tutorial?


For now, we expect most of them will go to the career agents. We make a direct hand off from our new system to the career agents in this release.

Later on we want to have enough content in this system that we can have them investigating game systems for weeks just based on Opportunities.



Wait so this system isn't getting rid of the career agents? Because they are part of the problem in my opinion. There is WAY too much overlap with the career agents which is A. boring and B. confusing. I would include a bit of streamlining to the career agents as well if possible.

We don't need a military and advanced military agent. Just combine them and cut out the overlap. We don't need a business and industry agent that teach a lot of the same skills. Just condense it into one agent. And as an afterthought I would take away the Destroyer as a reward at the end of military training. I feel like this encourages new players to keep rushing ahead to the next big ship instead of learning how to use and skilling up the old one.

And I would definitely use this new system to push players into PvP while they are brand shiny new and don't have much to lose. The first thing that I see a lot of rookie help and NPC corps chat doing is warning people to stay away from low and null sec. The more time that passes without a player getting his feet wet the more he feels he has to lose. Maybe have some sort of starter wormhole areas that only new players in rookie ships can access where they have some PvP objectives with each other just to give people a taste.
Grookshank
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2015-02-19 20:33:00 UTC
Sorry, to be a negative Nancy, but it looks to me like this makes the same mistake as before: The tutorials, no matter how you improve their lining and interface only introduce new players to EVE as a single player mining, missioning and market game. It is not that the current tutorials already do that job decent. The problem is: there is zero player interaction in the tutorials and the opportunities look the same.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#80 - 2015-02-19 21:22:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregor Parud
I'm liking this a lot, especially if it starts to replace the hilariously terrible tutorial texts which just result in new players going "holy crap, please kill me now". One thing though, please also include more "naughty" achievements. It doesn't have to be anything substantial but at least it conveys to "the right type of new players" that there's some tricks and fun to be had in EVE.

I'll add that the current career tutorials are also quite terrible, on top of the waterboarding from the tutorial texts newbies get swamped in the career tuts. So many questions in Rookie channel that could have easily been avoided by making the stuff less cryptic, EASIER TO READ, and less prone to make new players feel lost.

It's gotten to the point where I'm working on my own version of NPE mail and information to give out to newbies, and while I'm completely a fan of the HTFU concept it shouldn't be about actively alienating 3 day old newbies.