Player Features and Ideas Discussion

BACKGROUND: Last year with the Oceanus release, a change was implemented in the way cynosural fields are spawned by a player who is in close proximity (< 25km) of the force field of a POS. The change made it so that when a cyno was lit inside of a 25km distance from a POS force field, the cyno beacon itself would appear at a 25km distance from it, regardless. This change was enacted to address a form of well-documented "Titan Bowling."

This of course had a knock-on effect outside of the form of Titan Bowling this change aimed to address. It altered how people move Supercarriers and Titans specifically, where instead of cyno'ing on the force field and slow-boating a very short distance into the safety of it (typically < 10km), people were now confronted with the decision of doing the same and possibly having to slow-boat a much farther 20-30km, or light their cyno elsewhere in system and then warping into the POS once arriving, completely removed from any safety a POS and its automated defenses affords.

Either of the two options outlined above can be quite unpalatable to a pilot in many cases, and since the aforementioned cyno change patch, and especially since Phoebe, we are witnessing the greatly increased popularity of a third method, and it is a method that, I believe, takes things "beyond intent" as well as to circumvent the 25km cyno exclusion zone around an active POS force field. This third method is what's referred to as the "Garage Door POS Cyno."

WHAT THIS IS: The "Garage Door POS Cyno" is a straight-forward method of using a online tower that has not yet had a force field password set. A pilot in a cynosural field-equipped ship pulls up next to the tower and lights. Because there is no force field, the server does not artificially alter where the cyno beacon itself spawns. It will in this case be spawned next to the ship lighting it, per the norm when lighting a cyno anywhere else. The capital ship(s) then jump to this cyno, and once all have jumped, a password is immediately set on the tower which then creates the impermeable force field. The result is near-instant safety without having the slow-boat or warp, and anyone present but not allowed to be inside the force field are immediately and automatically ejected.

Now, this method has always existed since both POSes and cynos themselves have existed. It's just that it has gone from being an obscure and very rare occurrence to, seemingly, an every-day and routine one.

SO WHAT'S YOUR BEEF WITH THIS TACTIC?: I will say straight up that I'm all for the use of clever and out-of-the-box tactics in Eve. However, I am not for a tactic to which there is flat-out no counter to it, and has already been ruled illegal by GMs as far back as 2008. In this case, there isn't even an impractical counter. There is absolutely no tool in Eve's toolbox of mechanics or skills to counter a POS force field used in this manner, and I further posit that it is employed to circumvent the aforementioned 25km cyno exclusion zone with the further side-benefit of obviating the need to warp. On the enforcement side, CCP appears to be disinterested in addressing this issue, the crux of our frustrations.

CRY ABOUT IT, OR PROPOSE A SOLUTION?: I'd much rather propose a solution. When CCP implemented the 25km Cyno Exclusion Zone around a POS force field in Oceanus, I think they did it from the wrong point of reference. The Cyno Exclusion Zone should use the Tower itself as the central point of reference, plus the tower's force field radius, plus 25km:

(Large Tower) + 30km Force Field Radius + 25km

This would ensure that, no matter if there is a force field or not, a cyno that is lit within the Cyno Exclusion zone always spawns the same distance from the tower (force field radius + 25km.) Exceptions to this can (and should) be made for Anchored (not online) towers.

+1

Would be great if CCP could look into this for an upcoming release. It kind of makes a mockery of the Cyno and Jump changes that any capital ship or black ops can move 100% safely with 0% risk, anywhere across eve by simply jumping to online, shield-less towers.

+1 I've seen too many pubbies safe their ratting supers this way

Ofcourse, +1

I'm tired of petitioning people who get a slap on the wrist for keeping their supers safe via use of an exploit.

Typical double standard -

If PL does it, there would be 50 videos of it and 5000 petitions calling for PL to be banished

Some random scrub does it, nothing happens and the videos posted are of them thumbing their noses at someone and all is well cause the "Little Guy" won


Once enough little guys win, it is no longer an exploit if the GM's keep allowing it to happen with no intervention or punishment

this is a point noted on my CSM thread! I Hope this gets fixed soon!

valid tactic for movin supers

+1

An alternative, somewhat blunter, solution would be to simply have the force field activate automatically with no password when the tower comes online. Corp members would have access by default to prevent the tower owner getting bounced.

This would however kill such tactics as "starbursting" and baiting people with a newly onlined tower and a HIC. I'd be OK with that...

Personally, I have no issue with it (I like the term you apply to it, by the way). I was wondering if this was a possibility and this thread confirms it is.

I would like to point out something however: There is nothing preventing a cyno ship from being 2km from the force field, start to travel towards the tower, and just before crossing the force field boundary lighting the Cyno. The Cyno does not appear next to the force field but is forced 25KM off. The cyno ship is then safe inside the force field while the cyno is the legal distance.

I recall the fix adding the 25 KM from the force field was to prevent cynoing a ship to bump another out of the force field.

Perhaps we need a dev to chime in and answer, concretely, whether or not a cyno ship should have any protection what so ever.

In which case, if the issue is the cyno ship being attackable, then if the cyno is lit the lighting ship cannot enter a force field or, if the force field is raised, the cyno ship is ejected, regardless of permissions and maybe the cyno moved outside the 25 KM range of the force field.