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why do players stay in npc corps?

First post
Author
Bud
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#141 - 2015-02-15 20:59:07 UTC
Because I'm Bud the Stud and I do what I want
Lupe Meza
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#142 - 2015-02-15 21:19:40 UTC
Kraxalious wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Kraxalious wrote:
BrundleMeth wrote:


I remember going out on a roam and we were all in Tech 2 ships or expensively fit Battle ships. We saw another nice sized fleet and I was already for a great fight. Suddenly our FC says "Quick, lets dock up in that NPC station. We don't want to risk our expensive ships". I'm like WTF we came out to fight.
So we sit here in station, and after 2 or 3 minutes, the FC says "I have to go for supper, you guys get home on your own" (15 jumps in Null) and he logs off.

I quit the corp that day...


Of course, if the FC logged you could have taken over as FC and fought the other gang if you wanted to. Instead of waiting for someone else to make fun for you, sometimes you have to take initiative and make your own fun.


You don't know null politics very well do you? If you're not an official FC then you don't do anything.


He said he docked in an NPC station. Odds are if it was an official operation, it wouldn't be in NPC space and the FC wouldn't abandon his fleet in an NPC null station. In my experience, anyone can take out a roam as long as it doesn't conflict with alliance ops, however you wouldn't get SRP unless it was an official operation by an official FC.

So how do you learn to FC? Get some people together in cheap ships, let them know they might die and go on a roam. Usually there are plenty of bored people willing to lose a frigate or destroyer. If you die, oh well it's not like you lost much but you gain experience. After you run enough fleets and experience you will start winning more, people will trust you, and you can then take out more expensive stuff.


This is really good advice. FC'ing really just requires you to take out some fleets and learn from your successes and most importantly your failures. Some of the best FC's I've flown under have been some of the most average to below average individual players, but their understanding of what needs to be done, ability to formulate a winning strategy, how to communicate effectively, and keeping the fleet a cohesive unit; trumps any individual pilot skill anyone can bring to the table IMO. True some people may never cultivate these qualities and those that lack them tend to be horrible FC's, but a lot of these qualities are things that you can learn and strengthen as you go.

You don't have to be the Sun Tzu of Eve, most corps will be happy to follow anyone willing to take the responsibility of FC'ing into battle for the potential of action alone and will keep showing up for more as long as they're not an ass.

Fake it til ya make it.
Vector Symian
0 Fear
#143 - 2015-02-16 00:45:26 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Vector Symian wrote:
Hello and before I continue My main is Happily in the best corp in New Eden, The Scope

Reason may be...

-The Scope is a awesome mixed up community of peeps that may be a little too individualistic for corps mechanics

-They get to avoid griefer wardecs

- most corps go dead once their driving force is gone and then your stuck in a dead end corp but out of a skewed sense of loyalty you have stayed

-you can tell any boss in the chat to go *beep* themselves without consequence

-it make opposing mindset get to know each other

- they may be finding the peeps to get behind their own crazy idea

- peeps tend to be funnier and more real in scope chat

Scope Corp - Best Corp

return to us my children make the Leaders earn your loyalty


find a decent player corp? sounds like you just join crappy corps


Find one?

why when I have Scope?

and the majority arnt the bad they just suffer from people having a life and that is always unavoidable

scope is immortal, scope continues and scope doesn't coddle
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#144 - 2015-02-16 01:11:23 UTC
There are many reasons why people stay in NPC corps. I doubt you will find them all here. As for finding ways to coax people out of NPC corps, good luck. The easiest way is to create a welcoming environment without judgment. RvB, Brave Newbies, even the New Order promote these environments. Why CCP doesn't do more to support and promote is a mystery.
Lienzo
Amanuensis
#145 - 2015-02-16 01:39:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Lienzo
People stay in npc corps because they have no incentive to increase their avenues of exposure.

Ways that we could incentivize corp membership include:


  • Differentiate personal and corporate standing effects.
  • Mass-based docking fees for everyone.
  • Incremental war decs. (System > constellation > region.)
  • Limit character market orders on a per station basis, 1 slot per skill lvl.
  • Expand corp market orders to several hundred per station.
  • Enroll NPC corps in region-limited faction-warfare system.
  • Make local chat opt-in at the corp settings level.
  • Limit structure "launch for self" option.
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
Pen Is Out
#146 - 2015-02-16 05:07:51 UTC
To all the folks who want to remove NPC corps or force people out via powerful incentives -

What will be the effect on the game when highsec becomes effectively the same as FW space due to certain entities wardeccing en masse? Trade hubs will become no mans lands unless you are affiliated with the dominant group of station huggers.

Forcing people with no interest in combat (or people like me that aren't part of an organization that can fight roving gangs of interceptors and HACs/strat cruisers/gilas etc.) to play target for content hungry veterans in all areas of the game is how you kill EVE.

"High-sec" would become meaningless as just like the other areas of the game it will be divided amongst blocs with the numbers and SP to control space.

Obviously CCP is never going to mess with NPC corps in this fashion because it would be monumentally stupid for player retention but that it's even suggested on a regular basis is troubling.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#147 - 2015-02-16 05:35:57 UTC
For anyone thinking of moving from an NPC corp to a player corp, there are several questions they would like to see the answer to. Two that come to mind are:

What are the other members like?
How will I be treated?

At present, there is little way for a player to research the answer either of these questions. Looking at ads, or forum posts, tells you little. This is Eve, and all such information may just be a con. The only real way would be to join corp after corp and see. Many players would rather not bother, and put up with just staying in an NPC corp. Remember, this is a game. People play it for fun. Dealing with one group of jerks after another is not fun.

I suspect that many posters here advocating various methods of forcing players out of NPC corps are not looking to improve the game, they are trying to get more victims.

We need some way to more easily search for corps that fit a player's desires. I'm not sure that that would constitute.

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metalravenous
Pyramid Celestial
#148 - 2015-02-16 07:32:52 UTC
Main reason people stay in NPC corps is because people are idiots. Stay in NPC corps and you minimize time spent with idiots.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#149 - 2015-02-16 07:46:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Anabella Rella
Vincent Athena wrote:


...I suspect that many posters here advocating various methods of forcing players out of NPC corps are not looking to improve the game, they are trying to get more victims....


Precisely this. I've yet to see one convincing argument in any of these threads (that keep popping up like weeds after a spring rain) as to what's so wrong with letting people play the damned game the way they want. If someone is happy paying their monthly sub fee to stay in an NPC corp and do their own thing in high sec, so what? These poorly thought out, ham-fisted ideas to force people out of NPC corps (or do anything else they don't find entertaining for that matter) will only cause people to either form single player corps or leave the game entirely.

While some of you hard cases may cheer the idea that the "weak" would be weeded out, leaving "your Eve" a garden of pure ideology filled with people who play the way that you approve, I think CCP knows there's no way such an Eve is in any way a viable business.

Bottom line: if you want more potential victims you should get more people playing Eve instead of trying to bully the folks already here.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Rhina Duna
Fedo Shipping
#150 - 2015-02-16 09:59:50 UTC
One question....

How many NPC-Alts are just neutral-Alts of Null sec players?

xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
Already Replaced.
#151 - 2015-02-16 10:01:45 UTC  |  Edited by: xxxTRUSTxxx
Anabella Rella wrote:


Bottom line: if you want more potential victims you should get more people playing Eve instead of trying to bully the folks already here.


i agree with almost all you've said, but i tihnk the term bully is a little over the top and when did it become the players job to get more players into EVE ?

nothings changed at all, still people calling for the ole,, leave me alone and let me play the way i want, i pay for this. why should i not play how i want.

you play how the rules in the game let you, you might even bend some of them rules. what you don't do is show up and refuse to learn, refuse to adapt, refuse all advice given to you and then hop on the forums and demand huge changes be made to suit your personal style of play.

i've no issue with players wanting to play alone, or not want to be in a player run corp. so let them stay in their NPC corps and keep using the channels they created. i've said in a post already that i don't see an issue with giving them this stupid new group channel access,doesn't bother me (i'm just one person out of the community) because the truth is if someone wants to avoid a war dec they will.
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
Pen Is Out
#152 - 2015-02-16 10:57:34 UTC
Rhina Duna wrote:
One question....

How many NPC-Alts are just neutral-Alts of Null sec players?



*Alts of any player who quite logically don't see a need to expose any of their non-combat alts to nonconsensual pvp in highsec.

Literally the whole reason wardecs are stupid they only impact people too dumb to use NPC alts to manage their hisec affairs. Mainly newbies who aren't yet familiar with ALTS Online.


Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#153 - 2015-02-16 11:31:27 UTC
Lienzo wrote:
People stay in npc corps because they have no incentive to increase their avenues of exposure.

Ways that we could incentivize corp membership include:


  • Differentiate personal and corporate standing effects.
  • Mass-based docking fees for everyone.
  • Incremental war decs. (System > constellation > region.)
  • Limit character market orders on a per station basis, 1 slot per skill lvl.
  • Expand corp market orders to several hundred per station.
  • Enroll NPC corps in region-limited faction-warfare system.
  • Make local chat opt-in at the corp settings level.
  • Limit structure "launch for self" option.



These are punishments. Not incentives. You need to reevaluate your entire thought process.
David Therman
#154 - 2015-02-16 12:26:28 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
For anyone thinking of moving from an NPC corp to a player corp, there are several questions they would like to see the answer to. Two that come to mind are:

What are the other members like?
How will I be treated?

At present, there is little way for a player to research the answer either of these questions. Looking at ads, or forum posts, tells you little. This is Eve, and all such information may just be a con. The only real way would be to join corp after corp and see. Many players would rather not bother, and put up with just staying in an NPC corp. Remember, this is a game. People play it for fun. Dealing with one group of jerks after another is not fun.

I suspect that many posters here advocating various methods of forcing players out of NPC corps are not looking to improve the game, they are trying to get more victims.

We need some way to more easily search for corps that fit a player's desires. I'm not sure that that would constitute.


This, 111%. I've seen some of the other starter corps (sort of relevant, I guess?) when rolling alts for various purposes, and If my first character had ended up in one of them, I probably would've moved on within a week. As it is, I've got to know a few people who play regularly and who I enjoy talking to, as well as the very occasional fleet op. I've been on the clan/guild carousel in other games before, and it's not a pleasant experience, so I'm only going to up sticks if I'm aware of what I'm getting into... and short of flying with a corp for a few weeks, there isn't a sure-fire way to know that.

If there's one gripe that I have, it's that getting a group en masse to go and do something, anything, is extremely difficult. In comparison to something like CAS do with their monthly roams, for example, there just isn't enough people who are interested. So in that regard, it can be quite stagnant, but seeing as there are public NPSI fleets run every now and again, I think I can live with that.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#155 - 2015-02-16 15:55:19 UTC
Lienzo wrote:
People stay in npc corps because they have no incentive to increase their avenues of exposure.

Ways that we could incentivize corp membership include:


  • Differentiate personal and corporate standing effects.
  • Mass-based docking fees for everyone.
  • Incremental war decs. (System > constellation > region.)
  • Limit character market orders on a per station basis, 1 slot per skill lvl.
  • Expand corp market orders to several hundred per station.
  • Enroll NPC corps in region-limited faction-warfare system.
  • Make local chat opt-in at the corp settings level.
  • Limit structure "launch for self" option.



To sum up.

Force the way you play the game on others.

Wouldn't Eve cease to be a sandbox where they have the choice to play the way they want?
Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#156 - 2015-02-16 15:59:36 UTC
Syn Shi wrote:
Lienzo wrote:
People stay in npc corps because they have no incentive to increase their avenues of exposure.

Ways that we could incentivize corp membership include:


  • Differentiate personal and corporate standing effects.
  • Mass-based docking fees for everyone.
  • Incremental war decs. (System > constellation > region.)
  • Limit character market orders on a per station basis, 1 slot per skill lvl.
  • Expand corp market orders to several hundred per station.
  • Enroll NPC corps in region-limited faction-warfare system.
  • Make local chat opt-in at the corp settings level.
  • Limit structure "launch for self" option.



To sum up.

Force the way you play the game on others.

Wouldn't Eve cease to be a sandbox where they have the choice to play the way they want?


Limited the 'npc play' options in a game that is supposed to be player driven isn't 'forcing someone to play your way'. The whole "you want me to play your way" thing has never been more than a psychological defense mechanism for people who have found and advantageous situation and want to keep exploiting it.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#157 - 2015-02-16 16:08:42 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:

i agree with almost all you've said, but i tihnk the term bully is a little over the top and when did it become the players job to get more players into EVE ?

nothings changed at all, still people calling for the ole,, leave me alone and let me play the way i want, i pay for this. why should i not play how i want.

you play how the rules in the game let you, you might even bend some of them rules. what you don't do is show up and refuse to learn, refuse to adapt, refuse all advice given to you and then hop on the forums and demand huge changes be made to suit your personal style of play.

i've no issue with players wanting to play alone, or not want to be in a player run corp. so let them stay in their NPC corps and keep using the channels they created. i've said in a post already that i don't see an issue with giving them this stupid new group channel access,doesn't bother me (i'm just one person out of the community) because the truth is if someone wants to avoid a war dec they will.



I don't see a new thread like the OP's being created every week by so-called carebears asking CCP to save them from the big bad PVPers. You may not consider it bullying but, for the love of all things holy, why all the rage from some quarters of the playerbase with regards to people playing solo/staying in NPC corps/preferring to play in high sec? That's what I see as over the top.

As for getting more people to play the game, of course ultimately it's CCP's responsibility as it's their business but hey, since some people are so passionate about the concept of the sandbox, player created content, etc. why wouldn't they want to spread the word about how awesome Eve is?

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Jenn aSide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#158 - 2015-02-16 16:16:30 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:



I don't see a new thread like the OP's being created every week by so-called carebears asking CCP to save them from the big bad PVPers. You may not consider it bullying but, for the love of all things holy, why all the rage from some quarters of the playerbase with regards to people playing solo/staying in NPC corps/preferring to play in high sec? That's what I see as over the top.


No on is mad about 'solo players or 'npc corps' per se. What gets annoying is when those types expect this player driven mmo to cater to them. As a PVE player I know I'm playing a game deeply seated in the idea od 'PVP' (both in terms of combat, and in terms of it's general 'conflict culture'). I don't go around screaming "make the game more PVE, or at least shield me from PVP". But many solo/npc corp/high sec players lobby endlessly for advantages and protections without having to sacrifice the safety and comfort of what they are already doing.


Quote:

As for getting more people to play the game, of course ultimately it's CCP's responsibility as it's their business but hey, since some people are so passionate about the concept of the sandbox, player created content, etc. why wouldn't they want to spread the word about how awesome Eve is?


Because most people (especially most gamers) suck. Exclusivity is good both in game and in real life. The best restaurants and night clubs are the ones that are hard to get into, every thing else is this place. Nothing wrong with that place if you like that btw.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
Already Replaced.
#159 - 2015-02-16 16:17:37 UTC
Anabella Rella wrote:

I don't see a new thread like the OP's being created every week by so-called carebears asking CCP to save them from the big bad PVPers. You may not consider it bullying but, for the love of all things holy, why all the rage from some quarters of the playerbase with regards to people playing solo/staying in NPC corps/preferring to play in high sec? That's what I see as over the top.

As for getting more people to play the game, of course ultimately it's CCP's responsibility as it's their business but hey, since some people are so passionate about the concept of the sandbox, player created content, etc. why wouldn't they want to spread the word about how awesome Eve is?


so you don't agree that calling it bullying is make it out to be something terrible, done by terrible people. it's a game.

you assume too much, me personally, well i've been to fanfest 4 times, recruited my share of new guys to EVE. i didn't see it as a quest or a mission. no medal wanted,,,,,,, but yea, up to CCP to get more new meat for the grinder.
Lupe Meza
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2015-02-16 18:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lupe Meza
Bully:

noun
noun: bully; plural noun: bullies

1. a person who uses strength or power to harm or intimidate those who are weaker.

verb
verb: bully; 3rd person present: bullies; past tense: bullied; past participle: bullied; gerund or present participle: bullying

1. use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants.


The feelings evoked by the action may vary from person to person, mainly who is or is not on the receiving end, but this person's word choice is not incorrect.

What did grief deccer's "think" they were doing?


That said it's a perfectly legitimate form of gameplay in the EVE environment if only because the rules and mechanics of EVE allow for it. Also few things in EVE non-consentual things in EVE could not be considered "bullying" technically. But we all do it.