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why do players stay in npc corps?

First post
Author
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#121 - 2015-02-14 15:18:16 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Instead of asking why players stay in NPC Corps a better question to ask is why should players join a player corp. What advantages especially is high sec is there for joining a player corp?

This subject has been discussed to death now and the results has always been the same, the advantages for players to stay in a NPC corp far far outweigh being in a player corp.

It is sad but true


And add the benefits from setting a one-man corp and ready it to drop corp in case of wardec.
Memphis Baas
#122 - 2015-02-14 15:32:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Hey, maybe CCP can make the Drifters wage war on all the NPC corps and attack their member pod pilots much like war decs. So if you want to avoid the slew of nasty NPCs attacking at every gate, you leave the NPC corp for a player corp that has neutral standings to the Drifters.
Prince Kobol
#123 - 2015-02-14 16:40:17 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Hey, maybe CCP can make the Drifters wage war on all the NPC corps and attack their member pod pilots much like war decs. So if you want to avoid the slew of nasty NPCs attacking at every gate, you leave the NPC corp for a player corp that has neutral standings to the Drifters.


Nice idea... that is if you want even more people to leave Eve.

As myself and many many many (that would be lots) other people have said before, until CCP make player driven corps in High Sec worth while then there is no incentive for new and old players to join them.

Lupe Meza
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#124 - 2015-02-14 16:54:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Lupe Meza
Why does it fall on CCP to implement a features to drive players out of player corps, rather than players doing things to attract players into their organizations?

A lot of the criticism of why people don't join player corps shared in this thread come down to players having to jump through arguably unreasonable hurdles to join, their privacy compromised, how they play compromised (Stay docked, cease all activity during war), and exposing themselves to even more potential for griefplay to name some of the ones that come up repeatedly. All of these are the result of player/community instituted actions, behaviors, and policies.

It seems that other players drive players away from player run organizations, particularly in High Sec. Is it that the NPC corps are the problem, or is it that the player corp landscape has been made so unattractive by the players?

CCP implements tools to alleviate some of the more glaring things, having an option for concord intervention in intercorp aggression, implementing more robust networking tools for players in the form of social corps; things that will directly increase the likelihood of being able to build some measure of the trust required to join a player corp and it is viewed as the end of days.

Why would or should they do anything with NPC corps to absolve the players of their culpability in the environment they themselves created? And when they do step in to address the things we are doing that are keeping players out of our own corps, we condemn the actions. Classic damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#125 - 2015-02-14 17:39:43 UTC
Thorav wrote:
I dont want to serve an FC, who is really just another player, most likely with no real-world tactical knowledge, but who act like gods with self-imposed authority because they're the best at blowing up pixels.
And they yell at you when you ask them "What is that gate we are jumping again?" I wouldn't ask if you stopped mumbling location like a ******.

I remember going out on a roam and we were all in Tech 2 ships or expensively fit Battle ships. We saw another nice sized fleet and I was already for a great fight. Suddenly our FC says "Quick, lets dock up in that NPC station. We don't want to risk our expensive ships". I'm like WTF we came out to fight.
So we sit here in station, and after 2 or 3 minutes, the FC says "I have to go for supper, you guys get home on your own" (15 jumps in Null) and he logs off.

I quit the corp that day...
Lupe Meza
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#126 - 2015-02-14 18:49:46 UTC
BrundleMeth wrote:
Thorav wrote:
I dont want to serve an FC, who is really just another player, most likely with no real-world tactical knowledge, but who act like gods with self-imposed authority because they're the best at blowing up pixels.
And they yell at you when you ask them "What is that gate we are jumping again?" I wouldn't ask if you stopped mumbling location like a ******.

I remember going out on a roam and we were all in Tech 2 ships or expensively fit Battle ships. We saw another nice sized fleet and I was already for a great fight. Suddenly our FC says "Quick, lets dock up in that NPC station. We don't want to risk our expensive ships". I'm like WTF we came out to fight.
So we sit here in station, and after 2 or 3 minutes, the FC says "I have to go for supper, you guys get home on your own" (15 jumps in Null) and he logs off.

I quit the corp that day...


Guess that didn't make the cut for the This is Eve trailer.
Prince Kobol
#127 - 2015-02-14 19:54:51 UTC
Lupe Meza wrote:
Why does it fall on CCP to implement a features to drive players out of player corps, rather than players doing things to attract players into their organizations?

A lot of the criticism of why people don't join player corps shared in this thread come down to players having to jump through arguably unreasonable hurdles to join, their privacy compromised, how they play compromised (Stay docked, cease all activity during war), and exposing themselves to even more potential for griefplay to name some of the ones that come up repeatedly. All of these are the result of player/community instituted actions, behaviors, and policies.

It seems that other players drive players away from player run organizations, particularly in High Sec. Is it that NPC corps are the problem, or is it that the player corp landscape has been made so unattractive by the players.

CCP implements tools to alleviate some of the more glaring things, having an option for concord intervention in intercorp aggression, implementing more robust networking tools for players in the form of social corps; things that will directly increase the likelihood of being able to build some measure of the trust required to join a player corp and it is viewed as the end of days.

Why would or should they do anything with NPC corps to absolve the players of their culpability in the environment they themselves created? And when they do step in to address the things we are doing that are keeping players out of our own corps, we condemn the actions. Classic damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.


Remember this is Eve and the one thing you can garatuee with this community is that it is never their fault... Ever.

All you will get is the standard response of HTFU and go back to WoW if you don't like it. I have never know this community to hold up their hands and go yeah.. actually part of the problem of new player retention is our attuide towards them and same can be said of encouraging players to join player created corps.

Yes CCP could do a lot more but then so could the community but it will never happen hence why Eve will always struggle to retain players, hence the average PCU count going downwards trend yet again.
Kraxalious
Domini Caedis
#128 - 2015-02-14 20:00:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Kraxalious
BrundleMeth wrote:


I remember going out on a roam and we were all in Tech 2 ships or expensively fit Battle ships. We saw another nice sized fleet and I was already for a great fight. Suddenly our FC says "Quick, lets dock up in that NPC station. We don't want to risk our expensive ships". I'm like WTF we came out to fight.
So we sit here in station, and after 2 or 3 minutes, the FC says "I have to go for supper, you guys get home on your own" (15 jumps in Null) and he logs off.

I quit the corp that day...


Of course, if the FC logged you could have taken over as FC and fought the other gang if you wanted to. Instead of waiting for someone else to make fun for you, sometimes you have to take initiative and make your own fun.
Pok Nibin
Doomheim
#129 - 2015-02-14 20:40:51 UTC
You guys have driven this discussion into minutia so well you should win an award of some sort. Big smile

The right to free speech doesn't automatically carry with it the right to be taken seriously.

Miomeifeng Alduin
Lithonauts Inc.
#130 - 2015-02-14 20:54:22 UTC
Kraxalious wrote:
BrundleMeth wrote:


I remember going out on a roam and we were all in Tech 2 ships or expensively fit Battle ships. We saw another nice sized fleet and I was already for a great fight. Suddenly our FC says "Quick, lets dock up in that NPC station. We don't want to risk our expensive ships". I'm like WTF we came out to fight.
So we sit here in station, and after 2 or 3 minutes, the FC says "I have to go for supper, you guys get home on your own" (15 jumps in Null) and he logs off.

I quit the corp that day...


Of course, if the FC logged you could have taken over as FC and fought the other gang if you wanted to. Instead of waiting for someone else to make fun for you, sometimes you have to take initiative and make your own fun.


To do that ofcource, you need to have some knowledge on how to tactically lead a group of people in EVE. Some people are natural leaders and can think of the right ship to target in a large fight by instinct. Others just draw a blank and shoot random stuff. FC-ing isn't something everyone can just do (reasons can be skill, leadership quality, ability to speak a certain language clearly over comms, finding the right people who want to follow you and many more).
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#131 - 2015-02-14 21:38:02 UTC
BrundleMeth wrote:
Leannor wrote:
Exxon Hess wrote:
I'd love to fall into a casual FW/PVP corp that is big enough to have a good amount of people online, and would like logi/dpw support now and then, but not guilt me for not logging in every week... I am positive there are corps out there like this. I can't find them. They can't find me.


if you find them, ... let me know.

Well

We could start one.

No API checks, no guilt for busy people, only requirement is log in once a month. And maybe pick a day 2 or 3 weeks in advance where we can all or most of us try to long on together. Home base in an NPC Station, maybe even a Null NPC Station. We get together for a few hours, spin ships, go out on a roam in inexpensive ships, or just sit in chat and ***** about our fat wives and idiot bosses.

A corp with 15-20 guys/girls who don't take themselves too serious could be some fun or a failure. But you never know...

We call it "The Slacker Corp" or maybe "The Apathetic Group"....


That already exists - in an NPC corp called CAS. (Well, except there isn't even a monthly login requirement.) NPC nullsec station? Check. Large (100+ pilots) events announced in advance? Check. Socializing, NPSI PvP, PvE? Check. Pilots on 23x7? Check.

No need for a player corp to have fun in this game. Shrug.
Vector Symian
0 Fear
#132 - 2015-02-14 22:42:36 UTC
Hello and before I continue My main is Happily in the best corp in New Eden, The Scope

Reason may be...

-The Scope is a awesome mixed up community of peeps that may be a little too individualistic for corps mechanics

-They get to avoid griefer wardecs

- most corps go dead once their driving force is gone and then your stuck in a dead end corp but out of a skewed sense of loyalty you have stayed

-you can tell any boss in the chat to go *beep* themselves without consequence

-it make opposing mindset get to know each other

- they may be finding the peeps to get behind their own crazy idea

- peeps tend to be funnier and more real in scope chat

Scope Corp - Best Corp

return to us my children make the Leaders earn your loyalty
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#133 - 2015-02-14 23:04:46 UTC
Shailagh wrote:
Im trying to make ccp money here. ...


It seems to me that your help is uncalled for and strangely informed by opinion.
Your posts conjure a vivid mental image of a pallid hand slapping a keyboard with a bright yellow plastic banana in a dark, quiet room.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#134 - 2015-02-14 23:15:35 UTC
Vector Symian wrote:
Hello and before I continue My main is Happily in the best corp in New Eden, The Scope

Reason may be...

-The Scope is a awesome mixed up community of peeps that may be a little too individualistic for corps mechanics

-They get to avoid griefer wardecs

- most corps go dead once their driving force is gone and then your stuck in a dead end corp but out of a skewed sense of loyalty you have stayed

-you can tell any boss in the chat to go *beep* themselves without consequence

-it make opposing mindset get to know each other

- they may be finding the peeps to get behind their own crazy idea

- peeps tend to be funnier and more real in scope chat

Scope Corp - Best Corp

return to us my children make the Leaders earn your loyalty


find a decent player corp? sounds like you just join crappy corps

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#135 - 2015-02-15 12:44:46 UTC
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:
Kraxalious wrote:
BrundleMeth wrote:


I remember going out on a roam and we were all in Tech 2 ships or expensively fit Battle ships. We saw another nice sized fleet and I was already for a great fight. Suddenly our FC says "Quick, lets dock up in that NPC station. We don't want to risk our expensive ships". I'm like WTF we came out to fight.
So we sit here in station, and after 2 or 3 minutes, the FC says "I have to go for supper, you guys get home on your own" (15 jumps in Null) and he logs off.

I quit the corp that day...


Of course, if the FC logged you could have taken over as FC and fought the other gang if you wanted to. Instead of waiting for someone else to make fun for you, sometimes you have to take initiative and make your own fun.


To do that ofcource, you need to have some knowledge on how to tactically lead a group of people in EVE. Some people are natural leaders and can think of the right ship to target in a large fight by instinct. Others just draw a blank and shoot random stuff. FC-ing isn't something everyone can just do (reasons can be skill, leadership quality, ability to speak a certain language clearly over comms, finding the right people who want to follow you and many more).

Unfortunately I don't have the knowledge or experience to be an effective FC. I DO have some leadership abilities. Maybe some day I can give it a shot....
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#136 - 2015-02-15 18:14:27 UTC
Lupe Meza wrote:
Why does it fall on CCP to implement a features to drive players out of player corps, rather than players doing things to attract players into their organizations?

A lot of the criticism of why people don't join player corps shared in this thread come down to players having to jump through arguably unreasonable hurdles to join, their privacy compromised, how they play compromised (Stay docked, cease all activity during war), and exposing themselves to even more potential for griefplay to name some of the ones that come up repeatedly. All of these are the result of player/community instituted actions, behaviors, and policies.

It seems that other players drive players away from player run organizations, particularly in High Sec. Is it that the NPC corps are the problem, or is it that the player corp landscape has been made so unattractive by the players?

CCP implements tools to alleviate some of the more glaring things, having an option for concord intervention in intercorp aggression, implementing more robust networking tools for players in the form of social corps; things that will directly increase the likelihood of being able to build some measure of the trust required to join a player corp and it is viewed as the end of days.

Why would or should they do anything with NPC corps to absolve the players of their culpability in the environment they themselves created? And when they do step in to address the things we are doing that are keeping players out of our own corps, we condemn the actions. Classic damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.


Just now CCP are looking at their bottom line and foresee ugly things going on with it unless the game returns to growth. Yet their plan consists of doing more of the same, rather than develop areas of the game which ahve been unattended and unexploited since ever.

PvE and avatars, pick your choice. More PvP is not going to keep this old lady afloat, no matter how less noob-hostile you make it. The time for noob friendliness was when it was growing 4 years ago, not now when noobs have become a rare sighting and CCP advertises expansions with "resub now"...
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#137 - 2015-02-15 20:02:05 UTC
Kraxalious wrote:
BrundleMeth wrote:


I remember going out on a roam and we were all in Tech 2 ships or expensively fit Battle ships. We saw another nice sized fleet and I was already for a great fight. Suddenly our FC says "Quick, lets dock up in that NPC station. We don't want to risk our expensive ships". I'm like WTF we came out to fight.
So we sit here in station, and after 2 or 3 minutes, the FC says "I have to go for supper, you guys get home on your own" (15 jumps in Null) and he logs off.

I quit the corp that day...


Of course, if the FC logged you could have taken over as FC and fought the other gang if you wanted to. Instead of waiting for someone else to make fun for you, sometimes you have to take initiative and make your own fun.


You don't know null politics very well do you? If you're not an official FC then you don't do anything.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2015-02-15 20:21:11 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Kraxalious wrote:
BrundleMeth wrote:


I remember going out on a roam and we were all in Tech 2 ships or expensively fit Battle ships. We saw another nice sized fleet and I was already for a great fight. Suddenly our FC says "Quick, lets dock up in that NPC station. We don't want to risk our expensive ships". I'm like WTF we came out to fight.
So we sit here in station, and after 2 or 3 minutes, the FC says "I have to go for supper, you guys get home on your own" (15 jumps in Null) and he logs off.

I quit the corp that day...


Of course, if the FC logged you could have taken over as FC and fought the other gang if you wanted to. Instead of waiting for someone else to make fun for you, sometimes you have to take initiative and make your own fun.


You don't know null politics very well do you? If you're not an official FC then you don't do anything.


Sounds like a good reason not to go to nul then. Being told what you can and can't do in a video game by the players is not a very inviting way of getting people to come join you.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Totalrx
NA No Assholes
#139 - 2015-02-15 20:34:38 UTC
I've always thought that after a certain period of time (say 180 days) that a player be presented with two options:

1) Be automatically transferred to an NPC Corp that is enrolled in Faction Warfare

2) Join a player corp
Kraxalious
Domini Caedis
#140 - 2015-02-15 20:52:27 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Kraxalious wrote:
BrundleMeth wrote:


I remember going out on a roam and we were all in Tech 2 ships or expensively fit Battle ships. We saw another nice sized fleet and I was already for a great fight. Suddenly our FC says "Quick, lets dock up in that NPC station. We don't want to risk our expensive ships". I'm like WTF we came out to fight.
So we sit here in station, and after 2 or 3 minutes, the FC says "I have to go for supper, you guys get home on your own" (15 jumps in Null) and he logs off.

I quit the corp that day...


Of course, if the FC logged you could have taken over as FC and fought the other gang if you wanted to. Instead of waiting for someone else to make fun for you, sometimes you have to take initiative and make your own fun.


You don't know null politics very well do you? If you're not an official FC then you don't do anything.


He said he docked in an NPC station. Odds are if it was an official operation, it wouldn't be in NPC space and the FC wouldn't abandon his fleet in an NPC null station. In my experience, anyone can take out a roam as long as it doesn't conflict with alliance ops, however you wouldn't get SRP unless it was an official operation by an official FC.

So how do you learn to FC? Get some people together in cheap ships, let them know they might die and go on a roam. Usually there are plenty of bored people willing to lose a frigate or destroyer. If you die, oh well it's not like you lost much but you gain experience. After you run enough fleets and experience you will start winning more, people will trust you, and you can then take out more expensive stuff.