Ships & Modules

I understand neuting pirate battleships get primaried all the time....but that's only because the bonuses on the damn thing make it so strong!

My question is: why does the Bhaalgorn's bonuses out class all the other pirate battleships?

Machariel: yes it gets a role bonus making it quick, but other than that it just gets an ok damage bonus. Meh.

Barghest: is ok. gets an ewar bonus, an interesting role bonus, but is pretty shafted on the damage bonus.

Rattlesnake: pretty good. Nice defensive bonus with some mean damage.

Vindicator: Also ok. Mean damage (but this is partly due to hybrids in general, not necessarily the role bonus), and a nice ewar bonus that is arguably close to the Bhaalgorn.


And then we have the Bhaalgorn...

Two different ewar bonuses that are insanely good (Web range on a BS, yes please), and then holy **** the neuts/nos get double bonused!! Able to take several ships out of a fight with just one of its bonused ewar. And then it gets a freaking huge damage role bonus that let's it fit all the ewar without sacrificing dps.

I know the other pirate battleships do decent in their roles, and can do well in the right situations, but the Bhaalgorn's bonuses just put it at least a notch or two above the rest. It can still do damage while also bring incredible amount of force multipliers (ewar) that no other faction can get close to.

Why? Is there something I'm not understanding?

OK, I'll bite. How is the damage bonus not a damage bonus, if it allows you to fit three other devastating high-slot weapons in addition to a full rack of megapulse lasers? I'll remind you that the T1 Armageddon only fits five lasers and you often have to go down to the dual-heavypulse to make it fit with a tank.

I have a T1 'Geddon setup that gets 806 DPS with navy multifrequency and five ogres, and carries two neuts (total drain -1200), with 120k effective HP. With its only four ogres, the following Bhaalgorn gets 955 DPS, has three heavy neuts (total drain -3150), dual webs at 20km range, and has 130k EHP. This is all with T1 and T2 gear:

[Bhaalgorn, pvp]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Disruptor II
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

Ogre II x4
Hobgoblin II x5

This is what i mean (albeit in a somewhat round about way )... The Bhaalgorn IS strong, everyone seems to know it... but even if its price has dropped no one is willing to risk one.

There are alternatives if you want neuts in a fleet, most battleships have a utility high slot, and you can throw 2 or 3 Geddons for the price of a Bhaal (assuming minimal pimpage).

Its just sad that such an awesome ship is restricted to the side-lines.

... I just dont see how it can be fixed. It already has a huge tank, Web bonus, and neut bonus... all amazing. But what else can you do?
Adding damage would make it OP as hell, Speed would i think also be too good, overpowering its other bonuses... anything else would just be tweaks but never enough to change its useage...

Maybe nerf all other neuting to really make the Bhaal king again lol

People just need to learn to use the bhaalgorn properly and it easily roflstomps ishtars or tengus tbh, fit a nice rack of t2 weapons a feasable tank and web and neut **** all day everyday......

But serious, with the Nos being the old nos on the bhaalgorn you can easily fit 1x Heavy neut 2x heavy nos a full rack of t2 guns and a faction tank and only need 1 cap booster therefor giving you the option of fitting mwd point 2x web giving you that edge over kiters (speaking from experience)

In groups yeah, the curse and geddon is king due to range and no dscan **** but bhaalgorn solo really does work in pvp...

You clearly don't watch my videos ;)

Way too many people would ***** to high heaven if art considered changing them now. Look at how people have treated all the other remodels, they whine for the "ishkur's lance", crow and raptor are "too symmetrical", the old moa "was ugly as sin but we liked it that way", etc.

Hell, even I'm just as guilty; when they redid the Golem, I had a hissy fit about the hammerhead look even though without a doubt it looks pretty bad ass (I still feel like the wings need to be redone, though).

Art is doing a fine job with the ships' visual overhauls, but they maybe concerned people would raise too much a stink about "old traditional" is better than "new and improved".

Your name made me chuckle

Skyflyer 4 lyfe

Because they may win when they shoot at me which in all fairness i dont mind aslong as they dont bring 100 logis/geddons!

But back to subject, yeah i think the bhaalgorn is a viable ship right now as it has the Old nos mechanics making it just perfect to **** those ishtars up hard (corpus x type Nos = 42kms) + fed navy or domination webs , have plenty of range to defend yourself vs nanoers, now on the other side sure you can claim not everyone has the isk to use it but blah blah learn to make money (easiest thing in game)

Sure you can also argue yeh its hard to solo but my answer to that is also blah learn to play or contact me if you want a list of places that are soloable <3

actually, their fairly cheap for what they offer.

hmm, i may have to buy another one

The Bhaalgorn is a very strong ship, but it has a niche role. Unless you absolutely need to get as much neuting as possible out of a single hull and cost is not an issue, there are better options. For larger fleets, the Armageddon is not only cheaper, but also often better, because against the popular HAC/T3 doctrines they are most effective against the primary difficulty is getting them in neut range in the first place; it doesn't take many heavy neuts to screw over a cruiser sized hull, with or without bonuses.

The Bhaalgorn's web range and damage potentials are not that generally useful, because if you're in a situation where you are fielding a Bhaalgorn you probably have it fitted out for maximum cap murdering and you probably also have a dedicated web boat better suited for that role.

It makes a terrifying solo boat in theory if you overlook the fact that you would have to be suffering from a significant mental impairment to try to 1v1 a ******* Bhaalgorn.