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Got an idea to get some newer players into PvP and the like..

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flakeys
Doomheim
#21 - 2015-02-11 12:32:02 UTC
Alexi Drakenovic wrote:
Just so i have an idea, what would you guys think of a 1mil Entry fee? And what do you guys think of these as prizes?
Prizes:

Rookie Ship Division:

1st Prize Singles: Tactical Destroyer of your choice
2nd Prize Singles: 30mil ISK
3rd Prize Singles: 15mil ISK

1st Prize Double-team: T2 Frigate for each member
2nd Prize Double-team: 20mil ISK for each member
3rd Prize Double-team: 10mil ISK for each member

1st Prize Fleet: Navy Issue Frigate for each member
2nd Prize Fleet: 10mil ISK for each member
3rd Prize Fleet: 5mil ISK for each member

Frigate Ship Divison:

Same as above..



I'll throw in 3 plex's to add to the 1st prize for all 3 categories.Throw me a mail with a link to the event thread once you've got it all set down.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2015-02-11 12:34:47 UTC
Damjan Fox wrote:
@Rain6637

Just read your linked threads about the Destruction Derpy. Since the last one, it's been quite a while, so i'm curious what happened?


@OP

- Entry should be free, in my opinion.
- Like already mentioned, you need bigger prize pools. If you can't provide them on your own, you should try to find sponsors. A 50mil first prize is kind of meh.... From the top off my head, first one i'd ask is Ironbank. And getting enough donations, as soon as your tournament becomes more publicly known, shouldn't be that big of a problem.
- If you want to stream this, a good commentator would be really beneficial. Maybe a streamer would like to help you out with that (Fin, zaqq, etc..). Additionally this would be some good publicity for your cause.

Anyway, i wish you good luck with that.

And if you manage to get this tournament up, count me in Blink


Regards,
Damjan

Goonwaffe, and also the last one was in a wormhole, and it was stressful enough to cause burnout. Derp irl is a very busy person (and quite awesome), so the tentative plan is to resume the Derpy, but to GSF internally... out in whatever staging system.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Alexi Drakenovic
Doomheim
#23 - 2015-02-11 22:26:21 UTC
Quote:
I'll throw in 3 plex's to add to the 1st prize for all 3 categories.Throw me a mail with a link to the event thread once you've got it all set down.


Wow.. Seriously? Thank you so much! That would be amazing! Ill move down the prizes one level then to make it better for participants.

Seriously though, that is awesome! I will definitely let you know!

Quote:
We decided to spread prize funds around to as many players as possible, rather than offering one huge prize to the first place finisher. Luckily our sponsorship was good enough that it meant decent prizes for nearly everyone, rather than a trinket each.

We made prize categories aside from place finishes, just to keep it interesting. Even with noob ships you can do prize categories like most damage received, most damage given, most expensive fit.

There was one contestant who satisfied the T1 frigate vs Navy frigate requirement for collecting nearly a billion ISK. I didn't think it would happen, so I made the prizes nearly as much as the first place prize. I was more than a little bit excited on comms, which myself and Derp used to commentate. Somewhat successfully.

Commentary is another big one. Put out a call for one or two commentators. If it was up to me, I'd pick a hardcore PVPer, and a second commentator for comedic relief... in addition to yourself. And let the stream viewers hear your communication with the commentators in organizing the tournament. It's a fun look behind the scenes.

You can't use the stream to direct contestants, unfortunately. Even on immediate / zero delay, a stream lags behind real-time, and you need to use fleet chat (or some other consolidated channel) for coordination. I suppose you could have a separate teamspeak channel to direct contestants.


Well when i originally thought this idea up i was going to personally fund the whole thing, hence why prizes for people/teams who places 1-3 in there events, i also had prizes for best fit Frig and Rookie, Most Damage, Most Damage received, Best Sportsmen, and Not Loosing a Ship for the whole event.. Might throw some more in once i have an idea how much ISK i will have for this.

And wow.. That is a big prize.. Haha!

I don't know any Commenters, I will ask around though, or how to run a live stream.. Hell, I've never even used TS or Mumble.. *looks down* So yeah..

Quote:
@Rain6637

Just read your linked threads about the Destruction Derpy. Since the last one, it's been quite a while, so i'm curious what happened?


@OP

- Entry should be free, in my opinion.
- Like already mentioned, you need bigger prize pools. If you can't provide them on your own, you should try to find sponsors. A 50mil first prize is kind of meh.... From the top off my head, first one i'd ask is Ironbank. And getting enough donations, as soon as your tournament becomes more publicly known, shouldn't be that big of a problem.
- If you want to stream this, a good commentator would be really beneficial. Maybe a streamer would like to help you out with that (Fin, zaqq, etc..). Additionally this would be some good publicity for your cause.

Anyway, i wish you good luck with that.

And if you manage to get this tournament up, count me in Blink


Regards,
Damjan


Entry has be amended, it will be free, and like i said the tournament was for newer players as well, and the fact that i was going to run a Module Replacement Program and Ship Replacement Program for all participants.. So it wouldn't cost them anything, i also thought that might bring in newer players since there is no real loss to them.. But I guess that idea isn't very well received.. I will ask around and see if i can get some support ill up the prizes considerably, but remember this idea was originally funded by myself and no one else.. And I've only been playing for a month.. So.. Yeah.. I figured a 1bil Budget would be enough with those Prizes.. And with the Replacement Programs ill be running..

And sure thing, ill drop a line to you once i get closer to release date! :D

@Rain6637 - You have experience with this kinda thing so do you might if i shoot you what i have hammered out so far and you can let me know what you think?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2015-02-11 22:43:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Rain6637
yeah go ahead, send me things. Just keep in mind if it's not sensitive, it's worth keeping public in your thread for the purpose of building a knowledge base and getting other players' input. Spitballing and all that.

I'm a little inspired by the fact that you've only been playing for a month... I want to believe. I think you'll go far.

A standard thing we did for prizes was a T2 version of the ship lost, except for navy frigates. The reasoning was to prevent -everyone- from using navy frigates, knowing they would be replaced by us. It is an advantage to use navy, so forgoing the prize replacement seemed fair. It worked out more or less, although Federation Navy Comets were still very popular.

We also allowed the option of an ISK payout for the value of the T2 frigate, which a lot of participants chose, for being unable to fly the ships yet. hah

I'm in class right now, though, so my reply might be delayed by a few hours. I'm US TZ, Los Angeles.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Alexi Drakenovic
Doomheim
#25 - 2015-02-11 22:48:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexi Drakenovic
Quote:
yeah go ahead, send me things. Just keep in mind if it's not sensitive, it's worth keeping public in your thread for the purpose of building a knowledge base and getting other players' input. Spitballing and all that.

I'm a little inspired by the fact that you've only been playing for a month... I want to believe. I think you'll go far.

A standard thing we did for prizes was a T2 version of the ship lost, except for navy frigates. The reasoning was to prevent -everyone- from using navy frigates, knowing they would be replaced by us. It is an advantage to use navy, so forgoing the prize replacement seemed fair. It worked out more or less, although Federation Navy Comets were still very popular.

We also allowed the option of an ISK payout for the value of the T2 frigate, which a lot of participants chose, for being unable to fly the ships yet. hah

I'm in class right now, though, so my reply might be delayed by a few hours. I'm US TZ, Los Angeles.


Oh okay, so what.. Just post it here? And see what response i get? I can do that, it isn't sensitive really just my first draft..

And thank you :) I spent 2 weeks in the starter systems and it made me sad that not many people were social or wanted to do anything but mine or do missions and not talk, its a bloody MMO, its about playing with people, or at the very least being social, makes the game funner and easier and just more enjoyable! So i focused on Market stuff and yeah.. I wanted to change that, I am even going to start running public social mining fleets with my Orca to get newer players used to fleets and get them socialising :)

That is a good idea, but this tournament won't be using T2 Modules or Ships.. Figured that would give the older players to much of an advantage and might push the newer players away again.

And that is okay, I'm in Aus TZ and at work :P cause you know, EVE comes first :D
Alexi Drakenovic
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-02-12 02:10:05 UTC
Here is what i have so far, let me know what you all think, what i should change, all that good stuff, and thanks for all the tips, support and replies so far guys, means a lot that I'm getting this kind of response! :D

Divisions:

Rookie Ships - In the RS division you are only allowed to pilot 1 of the 4 racial Rookie Ships, and only T1 through to Meta level 4 Modules, Charges, and Ammunition. The reason for this division is simple, to give all players, a fun and new PvP experience, while working within there ships restrictions, this will require Capsuleers to think about there ships strengths and weakness’s more then normal, as Rookie Ships have a lower PG and CPU then most players are used to, you will have to make choices regarding how effective you want to be in a certain area, this is meant to be a challenge for even more experienced pilots, and fun for all SP levels of Capsuleers! This division has both prizes and Module replacement program (Please see below).

Frigate Ships - On the FS Division you are allowed any of the T1 racial Frigates, only T1 through to Meta level 4 Modules, Charges, and Ammunition. This Division is more focused on PvP skills you should already have, more PG and CPU gives you more choice, and more strengths and weaknesses to worry about, we recommend this for players looking for more of a challenge as SP will really matter in this Division. This division has prizes, and a Ship and Module Replacement program (Please see below).

Game Sizes:

There are 3 game types we will be doing, they are Solo, Double-team, and Fleet. Solo is a 1vs1 duel between 1 Capsuleer and another. Double-team is a 2 man gang operating in tandem against another Double-team. And Fleet is 3-5 man Fleet, you will not be organised based on size, a Fleet is a Fleet, if you only have 3 members then you will most likely be up against a Fleet of 5, so please, organised to have enough members to be at 5, with a Reserve player if you can (In case someone cannot make it).

Module Replacement Program:

The MRP is available to participants of both divisions, it is there to encourage more battles and more fun, if you are destroyed in a fight you will be able to collect the loot of your own wreak, and then you send one of the supervisors a loss mail, they will then reimburse you the amount you lost up to 5mil for Rookie Ships, and up too 10mil on Frigates (Not including the ship costs), the reason for such small amounts it to get Capsuleers to focus on using there skill and wit more then there equipment, Ammunition will be found on site and a maximum of 500 Missiles, or 1000 hybrid or Projectile Rounds, a maximum of 5 Crystals, and any lost after that will be replaced by us free of charge.This is the maximum you may take per round.

Ship Replacement Program:

The SRP is available to participants of the Frigate Division, it is there to encourage more battles and fun, if you loose your Frigate during one of the planned fights or duels, you will be covered by the program, we will replace the Frigate you lost free of charge, or, if we do not have any left in the stockpile, we will reimburse you the amount of ISK to purchase yourself from the nearest market hub (This will be the last solution, as we will have a large stockpile of ships ready on site for any losses).

Prizes:

Rookie Ship Division:

1st Prize Singles: Tactical Destroyer of your choice
2nd Prize Singles: 30mil ISK
3rd Prize Singles: 15mil ISK

1st Prize Double-team: T2 Frigate for each member
2nd Prize Double-team: 20mil ISK for each member
3rd Prize Double-team: 10mil ISK for each member

1st Prize Fleet: Navy Issue Frigate for each member
2nd Prize Fleet: 10mil ISK for each member
3rd Prize Fleet: 5mil ISK for each member

Frigate Ship Divison:

1st Prize Singles: Tactical Destroyer of your choice
2nd Prize Singles: 30mil ISK
3rd Prize Singles: 15mil ISK

1st Prize Double-team: T2 Frigate for each member
2nd Prize Double-team: 20mil ISK for each member
3rd Prize Double-team: 10mil ISK for each member

1st Prize Fleet: Navy Issue Frigate for each member
2nd Prize Fleet: 10mil ISK for each member
3rd Prize Fleet: 5mil ISK for each member

Both Divisions:

Most Damage Received: 5mil ISK
Most Damage Delt: 5mil ISK
Not Loosing Ship Throughout Tournament: 25mil ISK
Best Sportsman: 25mil ISK
Best Fit Frigate: 10mil ISK
Best Fit Rookie Ship: 10mil ISK

Rules:

No podding is allowed during the Tournament
No personal attacks of any kind
No getting involved in a battle or duel you are not apart of
Stealing from wreaks, or looting any wreak that is not your own
Warping out

Players that break the above rules will be banned from the tournament or will have to pay a fine to remain in the tournament, fines worked out on a case by case nature.

Have fun
Be nice and polite (This does not disallow a good bit of banter and talk)
Try your hardest!
All Killmails and Loss mails must be given if asked for by one of the supervisors
Follow the fitting structure provide for the Divisions
No complaining about loosing, this is for fun, if you loose then look at the loss, work out what you did wrong or what could have been different if you did A instead of B or if you used C instead of D, its all about having fun, and learning.
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-02-12 03:02:16 UTC
Where is this happening....I have an urge to awox.
Alexi Drakenovic
Doomheim
#28 - 2015-02-12 03:17:48 UTC
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2015-02-12 05:27:01 UTC
It all looks good, and no we didn't allow T2 frigates either. We just gave them out as prizes.

There was one format we never got around to trying, and that was two Orcas full of fit frigates, and they would be staged off grid from each other, more than 15 AU to avoid Dscan visibility. One of each combat frigate. It involved two competitors, and they would fight their way through the identical stash of ships in their respective Orcas.

So double blind, pick a frigate, warp to the engagement location, and fight. The winner would be the one who had exhausted the other player's stash of ships.

It would probably be a high SP game, but in the future you might want to try it out.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#30 - 2015-02-12 12:38:40 UTC
Eve esports... a topic discussed on EVE Radio quite some time ago.

I'm all up for that - small-game tournaments like that.

I fully support the OP's idea.
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#31 - 2015-02-12 12:46:29 UTC
Sounds great. Although the setup and admin is gonna be insane. You'll want at least 10 people involved in running it if you dont want it to consume your life for a few weeks.
Alexi Drakenovic
Doomheim
#32 - 2015-02-12 13:56:39 UTC
Thanks for the support guys!

It is great hearing that so many are up for it! I am still working on it and hopefully ill have some more people involved when i get closer to bringing this to fruition, but so far it is going great, i have been getting a few donations already which is amazing, I've already started working on building Frigates for it (cheaper then buying them built and i have the BPO's).

Just by the way guys I'm going to start using my new main, name is Dante Romanov, so ill be posting as him from now on.

If any of you have any ideas or thoughts on this let me know, this game is basically for the people I'm planning it for, its not for profit, so whatever you think we be great let me know and ill try and make it happen!
Machagon
Amamake Anarchist Community College
#33 - 2015-02-12 14:16:03 UTC
I have run a corp PVP tournament before and it was one of the best experiences I have had in EVE. I absolutely encourage this. If you have any questions about format/rules, contact me in game and I'll happily share what worked for us.

I do think that free entry is the way to go and, as you've seen, you should have no problem getting people to donate prizes.

One thing we did to help equalize the field was make it so that, in the T1 frigate division, you were only allowed to use meta 0 modules. This drastically reduced (though far from eliminated) the SP advantage of veterans. It also makes it so that people don't end up feeling like they have to bring a 100 million ISK frigate in order to be competitive.

Absolutely your biggest challenge is going to be keeping the matches from being interrupted by gankers. We hosted ours in a wormhole.
Cronbrook
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2015-02-12 14:44:44 UTC
prizes won't work :)

teaching and guiding works the thirst is out there they just need a guiding hand

all you have to do is undock from a starter system and you'll see why they shy from pvp

we have older players out there ganking noobs those noobs that do try and fight see they do no damage to this player

and say well his sp is high i'll never be able to beat a higher skill point player and that is true for the most part

a T2 fitted frig is hard to beat with 54,000 sp :)

most corps don't even look at u until u have 10 mill sp I wonder why that is...

..because they know SP matters in pvp.

sure Newbro alliances are doing great things getting new players to 0.0 but they are only teaching them the BLOB way to pvp as a noob. sadly most of those noobs will fail at 1v1

Just my 2 cents
Jenshae Chiroptera
#35 - 2015-02-12 15:41:53 UTC
Alexi Drakenovic wrote:
"Go for it, good luck, good idea"
Mail me when you have the event thread up and I will add it to my CSM thread so when I advertise that you also get a plug.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Dante Romanov
Doomheim
#36 - 2015-02-12 19:19:54 UTC
Quote:
prizes won't work :)

teaching and guiding works the thirst is out there they just need a guiding hand

all you have to do is undock from a starter system and you'll see why they shy from pvp

we have older players out there ganking noobs those noobs that do try and fight see they do no damage to this player

and say well his sp is high i'll never be able to beat a higher skill point player and that is true for the most part

a T2 fitted frig is hard to beat with 54,000 sp :)

most corps don't even look at u until u have 10 mill sp I wonder why that is...

..because they know SP matters in pvp.

sure Newbro alliances are doing great things getting new players to 0.0 but they are only teaching them the BLOB way to pvp as a noob. sadly most of those noobs will fail at 1v1

Just my 2 cents


Im just going to go ahead guess you haven't read much of the thread before commenting..

Why won't prizes work? Keep in mind these will get bigger closer to the date as ill have more funds/donations/help to make them better.

Guiding hand, that is what this kinda is, to teach players the fun side of PvP, and yes, this is often when the newer play is in a Battlecruiser and the other player knows how to beat it, or there in a T1 Frigate against a no rules DPS monster of a gank ship, id wager that even a multi-million SP pilot wouldn't be a similar pointed ganker.

And people with lower SP beat multitude higher SP players all the time, just cause you have X points doesn't mean your great, you might have Cruiser optimised 30mil SP pilot, versus a 2mil SP Frigate pilot, if everything that pilot has trained has been focused and is a clear direction in his training, he stands a good chance of winning in an evironment where both players are forced into flying Frigates.

Also, back to the original comment, about you not reading the thread, there are no T2, Faction, DED, Officer Modules, Ships and ammunition, in fact i was thinking of using @Machagon's idea regarding only meta 0 Modules.

Also only 2 game types from both divisions are solo, and the player isn't forced into what game type, if they only want to do small fleet then sure thing, this whole thing is for fun, and to get people trying things out, yes 25mil SP plus guy will be amazing at this, but, how many 25mil SP players are completely optimised for 1 kinda of ship? Oh.. None? That is what i though, there for they might turn out the be the same effectiveness as a 5 or even 2mil SP pilot.

Anyways, thanks for the reply, even if it was mostly negative, I've already got a little bit of interest from flying around the starter system from newer players.

Quote:
Mail me when you have the event thread up and I will add it to my CSM thread so when I advertise that you also get a plug.


And you are a legend! Thank you, i will make sure i send it through to you once it is all finalised :) thank you!
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#37 - 2015-02-12 19:32:59 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
This is a spectacular idea and I'm excited to see the result.

I would absolutely recommend reaching out to CSM 9 member and RvB Ganked FC Mangala Solaris to discuss logistics for what you're trying to do. I believe that he organized a tournament for RvB that was ultimately streamed on Twitch a while back, and the folks helping him did a lot of work to solve technical and organizational challenges. You may be able to learn some very useful details from their experiences.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Dante Romanov
Doomheim
#38 - 2015-02-12 19:35:22 UTC
That is awesome advice! Thank you Dawin! I will do that today, thank you for the show of support! :D

Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#39 - 2015-02-12 20:11:31 UTC
I may have missed this, although I read the thread, just don't remember everything I read lol!

I would suggest banning ECM such as jam modules and jam drones, at least in the 1v1 fights. Since one of the goals of this event is to get newbros turned onto pvp, especially solo/small gang pvp, not being able to shoot back at all would be a major turnoff for them (especially since newbros unlikely have any sensor compensation skills trained).

You may or may not want to consider some sort of limit and/or ban on remote rep modules in the 2v2 and 5v5, for much the same reasons, although I would NOT ban self-repping modules.

In other words, you want the participants to be able to at least have a chance to shoot each other and even kill each other, because that's fun! Some vets could easily show up in spider-tanked jamming frigates, never taking any damage and easily mitigating what little damage they do receive :)

Also, you may want to contact Sindel's The Angel Project and Mike Azariah's Magic School Bus to see if they'd promote the event to their newbros or maybe even donate something.

Let me know when you have the details finalized and your official event announcement posted, and I'll cross-post and promote it to the Redemption roams community :)

Good luck!

GG

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!

Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#40 - 2015-02-12 20:57:11 UTC
We ended up having at least a T2 frigate prize (or equivalent ISK) for every participant, win or loss. We attracted characters of all ages.

Also, there's no need to host it in a wormhole. That's just all kinds of headache when no one bothered to come out and bug us anyway. Even if there were gankers who dropped in on us, it was just more content. We made up our minds to pay out prizes even if there were disruptions.

We used a .5 system to allow as low sec status characters as possible, and there were some gripes, but we had no problem keeping our roster full.

Use duel mechanics if it's a 1v1 format. If you want to have groups fighting, you can have everyone loot from a can. If someone tries to drop in on a group of players with a mind for fighting a tournament, and then engage them, good luck I guess. (that would be funny)

Challonge.com allows you to set up tournament brackets for free.

It was just Derp, and myself, and Commissar Kate operating everything, so bare minimum is two people. One person to operate the stream, and another person to herd the cats and update the Challonge. Not counting dedicated commentators, I think the most you'd need is:

-someone managing the contestants and issuing bookmarks and starting locations via fleet chat
-someone running the stream on grid at the fighting location
-Challonge operator / score keeper
-commentator(s)

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)