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Covert Ops Skill
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mm0123
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2015-02-12 13:35:21 UTC
The Cheetah requires the skill book "Covert Ops" level 1 along with other requirements.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Covert_Ops

I've checked the wiki and some guides that recommend training the skill to level 3 but haven't been able to find any definitive bonuses to training it above level 1. My guess is that each level will reduce CPU cost but I'd like to know the numbers.

Thank You for your time.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2015-02-12 13:43:51 UTC
15% damage bonus per level for torpedoes, that alone is good enough for me :)

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Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-02-12 13:47:17 UTC
mm0123 wrote:
The Cheetah requires the skill book "Covert Ops" level 1 along with other requirements.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Covert_Ops

I've checked the wiki and some guides that recommend training the skill to level 3 but haven't been able to find any definitive bonuses to training it above level 1. My guess is that each level will reduce CPU cost but I'd like to know the numbers.

Thank You for your time.


the 10% bonus to scan strength doesn't count?

Art of Explosions
Memphis Baas
#4 - 2015-02-12 13:47:57 UTC
The effects of skills in the Spaceship Command category are listed in the Info of the ships they govern, and can be different from ship to ship. For example, look at the various Gallente frigates to see what the effect of the Gallente Frigate skill actually does. For some it's a bonus to DPS, others a bonus to agility, etc.

Similarly, the CovOps skill effects will be listed in the info pages of all the covert ops frigates (and bombers), and may be different from bomber to bomber or from covops scout frigate to covops scout frigate.
MarkyJ
#5 - 2015-02-12 13:52:03 UTC  |  Edited by: MarkyJ
The two big ones are the bonus to probe strength (10% per level is pretty sweet, makes probing difficult signatures much easier) and the reduction in cloak CPU usage (20% per level).

Covert cloaks use a lot of CPU, combined with an expanded probe launcher (unless you just want signatures and can get away with a core probe launcher) and some hacking, analysing, probing upgrades and you'll be struggling for more CPU long before you run out of PG.

All the way to level 5, your probes are 50% more powerful than an unbonused ship and cloaks use no CPU at all. It's a bit of a long train though; I would say lvl 3 or 4 unless you really want to max out your probing ability.

Lan Wang wrote:
15% damage bonus per level for torpedoes, that alone is good enough for me :)


You're thinking of the hound, the stealth bomber hull. The cheetah is the prober.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-02-12 13:53:35 UTC
MarkyJ wrote:
The two big ones are the bonus to probe strength (10% per level is pretty sweet, makes probing difficult signatures much easier) and the reduction in cloak CPU usage.

Covert cloaks use a lot of CPU, combined with an expanded probe launcher (unless you just want signatures and can get away with a core probe launcher) and some hacking, analysing, probing upgrades and you'll be struggling for more CPU long before you run out of PG.

All the way to level 5, your probes are 50% more powerful than an unbonused ship and cloaks use no CPU at all. It's a bit of a long train though; I would say lvl 3 or 4 unless you really want to max out your probing ability.

Lan Wang wrote:
15% damage bonus per level for torpedoes, that alone is good enough for me :)


You're thinking of the hound, the stealth bomber hull. The cheetah is the prober.


sorry i must have read wrong i thought he meant the skill in general not ship specific

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
MarkyJ
#7 - 2015-02-12 13:59:25 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
MarkyJ wrote:
...

Lan Wang wrote:
15% damage bonus per level for torpedoes, that alone is good enough for me :)


You're thinking of the hound, the stealth bomber hull. The cheetah is the prober.


sorry i must have read wrong i thought he meant the skill in general not ship specific


My apologies if that came across too harsh, it's just I rarely see a bonus attached directly to a ship skill like they are one the support skills. Normally they are attached to a hull and the ship skill itself is just a multiplier.
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-02-12 14:04:05 UTC
MarkyJ wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
MarkyJ wrote:
...

Lan Wang wrote:
15% damage bonus per level for torpedoes, that alone is good enough for me :)


You're thinking of the hound, the stealth bomber hull. The cheetah is the prober.


sorry i must have read wrong i thought he meant the skill in general not ship specific


My apologies if that came across too harsh, it's just I rarely see a bonus attached directly to a ship skill like they are one the support skills. Normally they are attached to a hull and the ship skill itself is just a multiplier.


its ok it wasnt harsh, my bad, ive never actually looked into other ships regarding the covops skill, always been advised by fc's to have this skill at lvl 5 as bombers were a main doctrine, but interesting as i have a near maxed scanning alt which only has this skill at lvl 4 so might actually train it to 5 for scanning

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
mm0123
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-02-12 14:08:10 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
The effects of skills in the Spaceship Command category are listed in the Info of the ships they govern, and can be different from ship to ship. For example, look at the various Gallente frigates to see what the effect of the Gallente Frigate skill actually does. For some it's a bonus to DPS, others a bonus to agility, etc.

Similarly, the CovOps skill effects will be listed in the info pages of all the covert ops frigates (and bombers), and may be different from bomber to bomber or from covops scout frigate to covops scout frigate.


So the benefits depend on the ship.
So for example on the rookie ship you would get nothing.
On the Cheetah at level 1 you'd get:

20% reduction in Cloaking Devices CPU requirement
10% bonus to Core and Combat Scanner Probe strength
10% reduction in Survey Probe flight time

So at the recommended level 3 you'd have:

60% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU requirement
30% bonus to Core and Combat Scanner Probe strength
30% reduction in Survey Probe flight time
Memphis Baas
#10 - 2015-02-12 14:25:44 UTC
Correct.

The CPU requirement reduction can be big, as more CPU allows you to fit other modules that maybe you couldn't otherwise.

And the scanner probe strength bonus is important; the hardest part of probing is narrowing the target down so you can get the 100% lock, and even a 10% bonus can make a big difference in how fast you catch targets with your probes. Especially considering that the target will see your probes in D-scan and won't stick around waiting for you to go from 4AU to 2AU and lock it down.
Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-02-12 14:34:59 UTC
Not sure what guides you're reading, but if they are only telling you to train it to 3 then they are bad guides. Get it to 4 asap, and if you really plan on spending a lot of time in a Cheetah, you'll want to take it to 5 eventually (work on scanning and hacking skills after getting Cov Ops to 4). The bonus to probe strength and the CPU reduction are huge benefits.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#12 - 2015-02-12 15:26:05 UTC
Well lvl 3 in any skill is typically a very short train. Lvl 4 for most things is fine. However lvl 5 is something you should think about because well there are many other things you could train in that time instead. A lot of people go over board with getting everything to lvl 5. Well in reality not much to lvl 5 since it takes so long.

There are good reasons to go to lvl 5, one is unlocking some other skill or module. The other is a really good bonus, for example Recons to lvl 5 is always worth it. All the recon ships get very large bonus for that. But Thermodynamics to lvl 5? meh that is not so important. Even my covert ops is only lvl 4 since i don't need it to unlock anything.

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#13 - 2015-02-12 19:12:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
mm0123 wrote:
The Cheetah requires the skill book "Covert Ops" level 1 along with other requirements.

https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Covert_Ops

I've checked the wiki and some guides that recommend training the skill to level 3 but haven't been able to find any definitive bonuses to training it above level 1. My guess is that each level will reduce CPU cost but I'd like to know the numbers.

Thank You for your time.

Cheetah
Cheetah Info wrote:
Ship bonus:
10 + bonus to Relic and Data Analyzer virus strength
Can fit Covert Ops Cloaking Device and Covert Cynosural Field Generator
Cloak reactivation delay reduced to 5 seconds

Minmatar Frigate skill level:
5.00% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage
10.00% bonus to Small Projectile Turret optimal range

Covert Ops skill level:
20.00% reduction in Cloaking Devices CPU requirement
10.00% bonus to Core and Combat Scanner Probe strength
10.00% reduction in Survey Probe flight time

I recommend you use EFT, which allows one to change skill levels to see the effects.

Covert Cloaking Device II
Covert Ops 0: 100 TF * (1 - 0 * 20%) = 100 TF
Covert Ops 1: 100 TF * (1 - 1 * 20%) = 80 TF
Covert Ops 2: 100 TF * (1 - 2 * 20%) = 60 TF
Covert Ops 3: 100 TF * (1 - 3 * 20%) = 40 TF
Covert Ops 4: 100 TF * (1 - 4 * 20%) = 20 TF
Covert Ops 5: 100 TF * (1 - 5 * 20%) = 0 TF

Then there is of course probe strength and flight time bonuses.

Personally I think training T3 electronics subsystem to level 5 is a better way to go than Covert Ops 5 if you are interested in probing. That's the route I took.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-02-12 22:42:17 UTC
I'm still amazed how many people DO look at skill traits, but do NOT look at ship traits and then link A and B together

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Memphis Baas
#15 - 2015-02-12 23:10:24 UTC
CCP could improve the NPE by adding this line to all the Starship Command skills:

Check the Info pages of the affected ships for details on the bonuses that this skill provides.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#16 - 2015-02-12 23:11:45 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
I'm still amazed how many people DO look at skill traits, but do NOT look at ship traits and then link A and B together


It's because for everything other than ships, the skill traits tell you what you need to know, but ships are an exception.

Example: Light Neutron Blaster II and Small Blaster Specialization (which is a prereq for that blaster). The bonus granted by Small Blaster Specialization is listed on the skill, not the blaster.

This is also the case where the skill is not a prerequisite (e.g. 1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II get a bonus from Armor Layering).

Ships are the only exception I can think of.

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